[MBTI General] NF and NT... drawn together like moth to flame

[Gen]

Some INTP's can be so sweet. Honestly, it's not when INTP's are cold that they scare me. It's when they bombard you with seemingly random emotions for no apparent reason that's scary (believe me, it doesn't happen often, but once is more than enough). The repressed passion can be all too intense. Other F's can be intense and it doesn't scare me in quite the same way, because their emotions seem to come from somewhere, seem to match with their personality and tendencies in a way, move in certain ways.

Heh, you think it's scary to watch? Imagine being on the inside trying to figure out WTF is going on!

 

[spirilis]

Heh, you think it's scary to watch? Imagine being on the inside trying to figure out WTF is going on!

lol, such painful memories... after you've done it once, you swear on the memory of that moment that you'd never come out with such a cathartic creepy explosion of feelings ever again. And so a long process begins, whereby your ability to express emotion becomes more and more dull, until you no longer have to force yourself to bottle it inside... you just become a naturally dull person. That is one way to go insane.

 

[Athenian200]

lol, such painful memories... after you've done it once, you swear on the memory of that moment that you'd never come out with such a cathartic creepy explosion of feelings ever again. And so a long process begins, whereby your ability to express emotion becomes more and more dull, until you no longer have to force yourself to bottle it inside... you just become a naturally dull person. That is one way to go insane.

I think that despite my best efforts, it made me so afraid of this person that I drifted away from them. I kept talking to them for a while afterwards, but somehow my discomfort led to me losing the drive to contact them, even though we had been good friends before.

Here are examples of my reactions to his out burst... it clearly had me on edge too. The person was mostly responding with quotes about the nature of feeling and such, with occasional random smilies. I was mostly talking to myself. It made me very defensive.


"But... do you really have no reason to be saying this or feeling this? How can you just feel something for no reason? Emotions are neuro-chemical states that occur in response to stimuli. So why can't I find the stimuli? It's driving me crazy."

After the person said something about the heart having unknowable reasons:

"The heart doesn't play any role in emotion. It just pumps blood. So if it's not conscious, how can it have reasons?"

"I feel so confused... how can I process or accept something that doesn't make sense?"

"I'm aware that a feeling can exist in a person for no observable or outside reason, but only because I'm aware that a symbol of something, or the thing that indicates it, is not the thing itself. This still doesn't tell me what to feel, but it tells me it's possible. It's not a possibility I'm comfortable with."

 

[armstrongvk12]

I think that despite my best efforts, it made me so afraid of this person that I drifted away from them. I kept talking to them for a while afterwards, but somehow my discomfort led to me losing the drive to contact them, even though we had been good friends before.

Here are examples of my reactions to his out burst... it clearly had me on edge too. The person was mostly responding with quotes about the nature of feeling and such, with occasional random smilies. I was mostly talking to myself. It made me very defensive.


"But... do you really have no reason to be saying this or feeling this? How can you just feel something for no reason? Emotions are neuro-chemical states that occur in response to stimuli. So why can't I find the stimuli? It's driving me crazy."

After the person said something about the heart having unknowable reasons:

"The heart doesn't play any role in emotion. It just pumps blood. So if it's not conscious, how can it have reasons?"

"I feel so confused... how can I process or accept something that doesn't make sense?"

"I'm aware that a feeling can exist in a person for no observable or outside reason, but only because I'm aware that a symbol of something, or the thing that indicates it, is not the thing itself. This still doesn't tell me what to feel, but it tells me it's possible. It's not a possibility I'm comfortable with."

Although I don't think that I've ever responded to emotions in the way that you have described, I think that the rational "talk" that you described above...is really the way that your INTP was trying to make sense of displays of emotion. I find INTPs (and to a lesser degree INTJs) to be so caught off guard by their own emotions...that the person tries to rationalize away...something that isn't capable of being rationalized. Your INTP was trying to use logic to make sense of something that he or she was not capable of understanding any other way.
It makes for an "interesting" conversation....with a person who is coming from a place of emotion and feeling. I imagine it would be hard for the "feeler" to understand a person who seems to be incapable of emotion. Believe me....I've had the same conversation with an INTP male...and I couldn't understand him! And I've tested as an ENTJ woman...although I think I vascillate back and forth between T and F.

 

[cafe]

Heh, you think it's scary to watch? Imagine being on the inside trying to figure out WTF is going on!

Hmmm. Now I'm going to have to interrogate a certain INTP. The fact that he didn't act scared, that he was totally, blissfully infatuated, scared me to death.

 

[Dom]

Hmmm. Now I'm going to have to interrogate a certain INTP. The fact that he didn't act scared, that he was totally, blissfully infatuated, scared me to death.

That sounds rather familiar...

 

[Gen]

Hmmm. Now I'm going to have to interrogate a certain INTP. The fact that he didn't act scared, that he was totally, blissfully infatuated, scared me to death.

That sounds sooo familiar! It sounds like me and Dom. I kept it to myself how afraid I was so that I wouldn't convince him he was correct in his fears. We INTP's do that; you won't know unless we want you to. You know that though.

 

[cafe]

That sounds sooo familiar! It sounds like me and Dom. I kept it to myself how afraid I was so that I wouldn't convince him he was correct in his fears. We INTP's do that; you won't know unless we want you to. You know that though.

Yes, and I didn't read him as well back then as I do now. Back then I thought he never got angry. Now I know he's angry at himself a sizable minority of his waking hours, just very repressed about it.

 

[GZA]

I just noticed this thread now! Great stuff!

I always questioned the NF-NT chemistry when I heard about it, but this thread explains it quite a bit with a lot of great examples from people's lives. I can think of some examples from my own life, too (my male ENTP (I think) friends, one who I naturally connected with ever since I met him in grade 3, and the other amazed me since I met him a couple of years ago, and my female ENTP (I think) friend who I've had great chemistry with ever since I met her four years ago or so).

So both of them are ENTP's. Interesting... raises another question.

Is there any kind of trend between how specific NF's and NT's interact with one another? I remember one person saying that INFP and ENTP is like hot chilli peppers a while back (I'm not sure what that means though ). I certainly think that there is something that connects INFP and ENTP, probably NP -the thirst for possibilities and innovative ideas, but I can't really put my finger on it.

So is there anything that connects specific NF's and NT's?

For example, using my own type:

INFP-ENTP
INFP-INTJ
INFP-ENTJ
INFP-INTP

But of course we can't ignore the other types.

 

[runvardh]

I'm still pretty sure I'm too much for an NT to handle, and not in the good way...

 

[Ender]

I'm still pretty sure I'm too much for an NT to handle, and not in the good way...

I dunno, I was with an INTJ for 3yrs.

 

[Apollonian]

How did it work out for you?

 

[runvardh]

I dunno, I was with an INTJ for 3yrs.

But I need too much... I would be unfair in my expectations.

 

[nightning]

But I need too much... I would be unfair in my expectations.

What do you need? What expectations? For the NT to not say hurtful things? I don't think that's it... It's more like a mental barrier. Self imposed one.

 

[Mondo]

I tend to get along very well with NT's, but the majority of NT's are males for sure. (male NF here) They are the people I have strong intellectual connections with, as I do with NF's.
I only dated once but want to get into the scene again. I'm terrified though. I fear putting my heart on my sleeve just to watch it get stabbed.

 

[runvardh]

What do you need? What expectations? For the NT to not say hurtful things? I don't think that's it... It's more like a mental barrier. Self imposed one.

*points at varient and ALL it implies*

 

[LostInNerSpace]

I read that somewhere before.

What is it that brings them together? Besides the obvious "N".

This is what Keirsey has to say about INTPs and ENFJs. I would image it would be similar for the other variations:

"This relationship-the ENFJ-INTP-can be "deep and meaningful" for the former and anchoring in a charismatic way for the latter."

 

[LostInNerSpace]

I think it might have something to do with how the N works within each and the need to follow it.

Keirsey also speaks of shared symbolic language between NFs and NTs.

 

[sakuraba]

NF's smell good

 

[matmos]

I have an INFJ partner and find the issues we have all revolve around the N function. While my N is derived from "thinks" hers is most certainly "feels". Usually I can give reasons for "hunches" - rational ones I hope - she seldom can. That said she is extremely good at judging situations and people with minimal obvious information and is almost always right. I find this rather uncanny & mystical and am slightly jeolous.

Sadly when it comes to non-social stuff like financial planning I have witnessed "lucky" colours and numbers come into play. In short the N lets her down badly in many scenarios. LOL.

Moth to the flame indeed.