[INFJ] INFJ Question

[OctaviaCaesar]

I am thinking that Athenian will probably be able to answer my question, and I hope that a lot of people can...

What does Kiersey mean when he writes that "INFJs are the most vulnerable to their archetypal material"? Is this good or bad? I am worried about it, should I not be?

 

[Athenian200]

I am thinking that Athenian will probably be able to answer my question, and I hope that a lot of people can...

What does Kiersey mean when he writes that "INFJs are the most vulnerable to their archetypal material"? Is this good or bad? I am worried about it, should I not be?

Since you didn't quote it in context, I'm not sure. I have a few guesses, though.

1. They are more vulnerable to random thoughts they cannot shake.

2. They are the NF type most likely to be frustrated by their own idealism, realizing how pointless it is to seek those ideals, yet unable to be fulfilled without pursuing them.

3. They are the NF type most likely to become frustrated by typical NF behavior.

4. They are more likely to attempt to live out unconscious archetypes.

 

[vince]

You shouldn't worry about that at all. I think you need to translate "vulnerable" as "aware" & "archetypal material" as "inner mechanics/dynamics of your mind".
In other words : INFJ is the type most aware of dynamics of the mind/psyche. We're psychologists after all.
I think the word archetype in this context is ambiguous & misleading.

 

[tovlo]

4. They are more likely to attempt to live out unconscious archetypes.

Some form of this is how I've generally read that quote.

I don't completely understand why that would be or how it manifests exactly though.

On another forum there was a thread with made-up quotes describing each of the different MBTI types. One person quoted "Physician heal thyself" for INFJ. I think somehow that quote is apt and applies to this thread's idea.

 

[whatnot]

Huh. Would it be weird to say that this thread just made my life make sense?

 

[OctaviaCaesar]

Huh. Would it be weird to say that this thread just made my life make sense?

That's so cool. Lucky you! Do you care to elaborate?

Thanks all for your responses!

Athenian, I love your analysis. Could you please explain no. 4, that Tovlo found so resonant? I am not sure what an archetype is. It's a strictly Jungian concept, right?

 

[spirilis]

That's so cool. Lucky you! Do you care to elaborate?

Thanks all for your responses!

Athenian, I love your analysis. Could you please explain no. 4, that Tovlo found so resonant? I am not sure what an archetype is. It's a strictly Jungian concept, right?

IIRC (I read a book a couple months ago that dealt with them to a certain extent), an archetype is a general "pattern of reality" as I like to call it. For instance, a sellout musician could be considered one form of archetype-- the general pattern of somebody starting out with nothing, finding a talent, developing it, then using it with others' help, to later become successful, eventually succumbing to greed, and eventually using monetary gain as their principle driving force... That whole sequence of general "events" could be bottled up into a single archetype. I am not certain if it is applicable to this sort of level, but I suppose another archetype could be the basic concept of rising and falling--a car driving over a hill plays out this archetype, as the does the sun when it moves through the sky, from our point of view anyway.

Jung's theories took that a few levels deeper to suggest that archetypes of all differing and various forms are present in every aspect of our reality, and the fact that we can perceive them as distinct common patterns even though they can manifest in almost any form means that the archetype itself has a special mental or psychological component.

That is then integrated into his theory of synchronicity, to (here's where I may be adding my own interpretation) suggest that some meaningful coincidences occur between seemingly unrelated objects because the components are actually playing out part of a larger archetype or pattern of reality that we aren't perceptive enough to notice (or just don't have the ability to draw information on the scope and magnitude necessary to see it).

I'm sure others on here are more knowledgeable of the subject than I am, seeing as I've only read one book about it so far, but that's my take.

 

[cascadeco]

This is perhaps related to the archetype thing, but I find one of my big-picture struggles is wanting to follow many 'paths' -- i.e. patterns of reality? -- all at the same time. Feeling myself pulled in many possible directions, having a hard time 'choosing' which one I want, which one makes sense for me - because on some level I can relate to all of them at the same time, and want it all. I can see many ways I could 'be', and many ways of making my life, but I don't like being constricted to just one, or feel immobilized because I can see value in many paths. One path may fulfill 50% of what I want, another path may fill the opposite 50%, a third path may fill 65% but at the expense of a really important 35%....etc.

I might be speaking of something else though.

 

[spirilis]

Sounds about right to me. If you are particularly adept at thinking of your goals and future in terms of the paths and patterns you will follow in the process, it becomes an interesting dilemma and choice you have to make when you consider which one you want to follow.

 

[whatnot]

2. They are the NF type most likely to be frustrated by their own idealism, realizing how pointless it is to seek those ideals, yet unable to be fulfilled without pursuing them.

3. They are the NF type most likely to become frustrated by typical NF behavior.

These two points really struck a chord with me. I tend to get rather frustrated with my NF side, and I'd always attributed it to the fact that I'm so close on F/T. And I've often been typed as INTJ by people at first meeting, but I think its because of my own frustration with NF idealism and low social index. I can be quite pragmatic, but ultimately, I'm an NF.

 

[INTJMom]

Since you didn't quote it in context, ....

It's here in the second paragraph under Careers.
INFJ - The Mystic

 

[Hellbourn3]

I'd interpreted the statement as having to deal with manifesting archetypal traits based off MBTI synopses of INFJs and to a lesser extent elaborations of the INFJ's most prominent functions of the functional analysis. Oftentimes I find myself falling back on being INFJ as a crutch of sorts whenever I don't do well at something, particularly something most find easy and thusly dealing with the tangible (S) world. Most of you will probably look at that disdainfully but that's the case as far as I go. I was surprised that no one seemed to share that interpretation here as of yet, and made me a little bit more hesitant to post this, but again, it's the truth.

 

[OctaviaCaesar]

I'd interpreted the statement as having to deal with manifesting archetypal traits based off MBTI synopses of INFJs and to a lesser extent elaborations of the INFJ's most prominent functions of the functional analysis. Oftentimes I find myself falling back on being INFJ as a crutch of sorts whenever I don't do well at something, particularly something most find easy and thusly dealing with the tangible (S) world. Most of you will probably look at that disdainfully but that's the case as far as I go. I was surprised that no one seemed to share that interpretation here as of yet, and made me a little bit more hesitant to post this, but again, it's the truth.

I think this is an extremely valid way to describe yourself. If one can't tailor the entire world to an INFJ way of being, then recognizing one's own gifts and weaknesses and accepting them is the next-best thing. You don't necessarily have to make yourself more than you already are--into some kind of ST. Thank you for giving you perspective on this so candidly.

 

[something boring]

Since you didn't quote it in context, I'm not sure. I have a few guesses, though.

1. They are more vulnerable to random thoughts they cannot shake.

2. They are the NF type most likely to be frustrated by their own idealism, realizing how pointless it is to seek those ideals, yet unable to be fulfilled without pursuing them.

3. They are the NF type most likely to become frustrated by typical NF behavior.

4. They are more likely to attempt to live out unconscious archetypes.

OMG! Whoever let you into my head is fired!

 

[ReadingRainbows]

OMG! Whoever let you into my head is fired!

Its mass mind control then.

 

[Skyward]

You shouldn't worry about that at all. I think you need to translate "vulnerable" as "aware" & "archetypal material" as "inner mechanics/dynamics of your mind".
In other words : INFJ is the type most aware of dynamics of the mind/psyche. We're psychologists after all.
I think the word archetype in this context is ambiguous & misleading.

I could believe this one because I seem so aware of how and why I think. The driving force people don't know or want to believe is hidden from them, while I can see it well in myself and sometimes others. I think this is the part that gives us the 'conspiracy theorist' or 'psychoanalyst' monikers. We see the top of the water while everyone is swimming in the coral. We guess what parts of the coral are where because we have the birds-eye view with N.

Ive always believed that I never truly learned the bits and pieces of things, but that I get those from the big picture my unconscious pieced together from the things I don't pay a lot of attention to.

Like peeling away the conscious actions and finding the unconscious/semi-unconscious under it. Most of this information comes in a vibe that I understand, but cant communicate in language. This can cause me to be so aloof because I'm translating it and associating it with the other vibes I get.

That is then integrated into his theory of synchronicity, to (here's where I may be adding my own interpretation) suggest that some meaningful coincidences occur between seemingly unrelated objects because the components are actually playing out part of a larger archetype or pattern of reality that we aren't perceptive enough to notice (or just don't have the ability to draw information on the scope and magnitude necessary to see it).

It happens to me all the time while listening to music. A section of lyrics reminds me of something, out of context, and sometimes it is inspiring, sometimes I cant listen to the song anymore because of those lines. ( An example would be 'Come to Daddy' by Aphex Twin. The lines in it make me scared for my soul, so I cant listen to it without feeling edgy.)


Dont mind the half-coherent ramblings, please. It's hard for me to organize much of the time.

 

[sciski]

In my attempt to find context through google:

"Did you mean: INFANTs are the most vulnerable to their archetypal material"



But here is the context (oops, just saw INTJMom's contribution!):

INFJs make outstanding individual therapists who have the ability to get in touch with the archetypes of their patients in a way some other types do not. The INFJs are also the most vulnerable of all the types to the eruption of their own archetypal material. As therapists, INFJs may choose counseling, clinical psychology, or psychiatry, or may choose to teach in these fields. Writing about these professions often intrigues an INFJ. Whatever their choice, they generally are successful in these fields because their great personal warmth, their enthusiasm, their insight, their depth of concentrations, their originality, and their organizational skills can all be brought into play.

INFJ - The Mystic

Is it not the balance between understanding yourself (knowing your archetype) and being able to control your instincts in the way you desire?

Eruption = uncontrolled.

What I'm seeing is that an INFJ is happily going along, then suddenly the whole concept of 'being INFJ' takes over and they act out the role of the SUPER-INFJ while inside a little voice is asking what on earth is going on?

Ni - I understand the essential qualities of my role.
Fe - I feel the need to play out my role. Okay I will play out my role.
Ni - Playing out this role gives me more understanding about the essential qualities of my role (not to mention other people, woohoo!).
Fe - People are responding well to me playing out this role, I will continue.
Ni - I am attaining even more understanding the more I play this--oh f*** it, just feed me!! FEED ME!!
Fe - OKAY!
(Shadow-Fi) - dude, this is not you!
Ni + Fe - Shush!
(All other functions) - Your energy reserves are depleting.
Ni + Fe - It doesn't matter! I'm on the cusp of some stroke of glorious Ni-insight and understanding! With this I will take care of the world!!
(Se + Hint of shadow Te)- Take care?? Don't you want to take OVER the world??
Ti - Look, you don't need to take care of EVERYONE you know.
Ni + Fe - Lalalallalaala!!
Se - I'll handle this! (dunks INFJ into pool of chocolate)


I think this is why I associate INFJs with sighs and .

 

[cascadeco]

^lol!

I don't like what you're describing either! I feel like a foreign object in comparison to half of the INFJ descriptions on the internet, and I in no way want to live out a caricature - I want to be more balanced than that. And if you fall too deeply into mbti, it can be too easy to take it far more seriously than it should be taken..and you then start being prone to acting out how you're 'supposed' to be acting out.

 

[sciski]

And if you fall too deeply into mbti, it can be too easy to take it far more seriously than it should be taken..and you then start being prone to acting out how you're 'supposed' to be acting out.

Absolutely.

I interpreted Kiersey's phrase as saying that INFJs are more prone to 'acting out their type'... it doesn't mean I agree with it though.

Incidentally, I should emphasise that the OP's quotation was not exactly like the one I found at the site I linked.

The INFJs are also the most vulnerable of all the types to the eruption of their own archetypal material.

The extra words completely change the meaning.

 

[Skyward]

Drat. Now I need one of the geniuses here to translate it into American so I can understand what it means now!

I stand by my other post. >.>