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[Jungian Cognitive Functions] INFJ / INTJ struggles with Sensor (e) world?

Introverts_Unite!

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Do any other N’s else struggle with keeping up with the demands and expectations of the sensory world? I’m speaking especially to INFJs & INTJs with dominant introverted iNtuition and inferior extraverted Sensing, aka S(e). {see final paragraph for a metaphor of what I mean here.}

I grew up in a sensor household, majored and worked in a field dominated by sensors, and basically spent many years trying to fit into that mold until I finally saw a counselor who clued me in to type theory and revealed the secrets of the universe (or so it seemed at the time).

Initially I thought that all my “experience” helped me excel at sensor matters, but at this point in my life I look back at my patterns and feel more inept than ever. For example,
~ an ESFJ friend once gave me some long-lasting lipstick for my birthday because “we have pale lips.” I was confused until I started looking around at everyone else and saw that indeed, about 85% of people (including my male boss) had naturally rosier lips.
~ A hairdresser styled my hair to minimize my “high forehead” (I had no clue I won’t even tell you how old I was at the time)
~ I do stellar mental organization (including electronic spreadsheets, instructions, etc), but if I ever had to handle a piece of paper “just once” at work, I would be catatonic before the weekend.
~ My house is my favorite sanctuary, but it’s hard to relax because the physical clutter and unfinished maintenance projects chronically harp and taunt me (i.e., the damn J thing - you lucky P’s!).

All the while, I am constantly aware that time is racing by (hence my avatar image) and I haven’t been true to my longings and desires because so many sensory obstacles stand in the way. It’s so much harder for me to accomplish sensory tasks than most people, yet clearing those decks is a mental prerequisite for settling down to a relaxing, creative, fun life.

The metaphor I have for what this feels like is the “Claw Machine.” I’m referring to the big clear box in the store that is stuffed with toys. You drop your coins in and maneuver the Claw contraption for the prize. The Dominant (=best) Sensor equivalent is to simply reach in with your natural hand and grab one. Types with Inferior S(e), however, have to use the Claw, with no great success. In Type Dynamics, this is the same struggle that INTPs/ISTP/s have with the Feeling function, or INFP’s/ISFP’s have with accessing the Thinking function. I’m not intentionally leaving out extraverts, but because their favorite function is external, things tend to be less convoluted for them.

N’s – what sensory obstacles do you trip over, and what do you do about them?
 

OctaviaCaesar

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I am impressed by your description of an INJs struggle with Se! That is how I feel about trying to be aware of my surroundings. I can walk out in front of cars on a busy street because I am too busy talking/thinking to notice--thank goodness my boyfriend has a strong preference for Se! I live inside my own head too, and sometimes my thoughts are way more real than the events going on around me.

One of my sisters--an ESTP, by the way--has from her earliest years consistently pointed out what people were wearing and how good or bad they looked in said clothes. I think I would hardly notice if someone having an absorbing conversation with me were naked.
 

Domino

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It's not just introverted NFJs that struggle. I'm TERRIBLE at recognizing/acknowledging the physical realm AT ALL, and I'm an E. My father and I both are really notorious for this. I literally have zero sensing function. Rock-bottom nothing.

If it weren't for my ENFP sister (who is able to function on a practical level) and my Senser mother, I'd be lost most of the time, wandering around with one shoe off and my hair standing on end.

Note: That story you told about the lipstick could have happened to ME. LOL! That's too funny. At least I know I'm not alone in this. :(
 

cafe

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Time, money, papers, dates they are all like butterflies I chase with a net. No hope of my ever catching, let alone cataloging them all.
 

Atomic Fiend

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I think It was an unforgivable sin to give me drivers license. When I'm driving my eyes may be on the road but my mind is somewhere else.
 

Introverts_Unite!

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It's not just introverted NFJs that struggle. I'm TERRIBLE at recognizing/acknowledging the physical realm AT ALL, and I'm an E. My father and I both are really notorious for this. I literally have zero sensing function. Rock-bottom nothing.

If it weren't for my ENFP sister (who is able to function on a practical level) and my Senser mother, I'd be lost most of the time, wandering around with one shoe off and my hair standing on end.

Note: That story you told about the lipstick could have happened to ME. LOL! That's too funny. At least I know I'm not alone in this. :(

You're right ... EN's do struggle as well. Your comment reminded me of a former co-worker, an ENTP, who declared that he took a test showing he had "zero sentience" (awareness of surroundings). Interestingly, he was also a p/t college football referree, so he could certainly pay attention to things that interested him.
His story is as follows:
He came home from work one day, went to the bedroom and took off his coat and tie, then came back into the kitchen and greeted his wife.
She said, "Did you notice anything new, Ed?"
He, starting to break a sweat and panic inside, ventured, "Umm.. new dress?"
She: "No"
He: "Uh ... new hairdo?"
She: "No! Go back into the bedroom and look in the closet!"
When he went to the "His" side of the His/Her closets, he found his suit coat hanging amidst her dresses. She had switched out the closets that day!
 

Domino

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lol @ poor Ed... story of my life. Actually, I'm more clueless about what pertains to me physically than what's happening around me (though I can submerge and not notice a marching band passing right in front me sometimes... it makes my mother and sister nuts...). It's entirely possible that the closet could have been switched around on me and I wouldn't have caught on right away if I wasn't paying strict attention. The influence of my family has helped me in that quarter, to help get me down out of my head.

But I'm still frighted by just about every change. Lipliner. Underwear made from something other than cotton. Brushing my hair. Realizing my clothes are all dirty. Growing breasts. All very shocking. ha ha!
 

quietgirl

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Sensory things I struggle with...

1. Dates, dates, dates and more dates. What day is it again? I have no idea. Fortunately, my boyfriend doesn't expect me to remember our anniversary because I really have no idea which day we started dating. I'm notoriously bad with birthdays, though I've gotten into the habit of immediately writing them down so I can remember them more. I'm awesome at celebrating, but bad at remembering. I'd rather not admit the year I forgot my own birthday... a phone call from my mom reminded me.

2. Was the light green? Or red? I honestly had no idea.

3. Should we get into the amount of times I've left my house in pajama pants, flip flops in the middle of winter, mismatched socks...?

4. I'm usually unaware of what my body is trying to tell me. I don't eat until I have hunger pains knawing at me, despite the time of day. I literally forget to eat. I can't tell you the amount of times I've all of a sudden felt like passing out & had no idea why (umm, it's 5pm and I forgot to eat. duh.) This also leads to me overworking - I will literally go go go because I'm not aware of my body telling me to slow down.

5. Directions. I could get lost finding my way out of a paper box. It doesn't matter that they are written out step by step with pictures. I totally didn't see the left at the last intersection. In fact, what intersection? I haven't seen one of those for miles...

6. Oh, you changed the layout of MBTI Central? I half noticed. It looks good. :)

There are more, I'm sure. I tend to drive the ESTP mother & ISTP boyfriend absolutely nuts with this stuff - thankfully, they act as my little Se eyes. I mean, SOMEONE has to remind me that I need to take a left at the next light. Yes, a left... not a right so I can switch my blinker now.
 

Sandy

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Do any other N’s else struggle with keeping up with the demands and expectations of the sensory world?
Welcome, Introverts_Unite! :hi: Since I am INFP, maybe I don't struggle quite as much, but it still is a challenge for me. It's virtually impossible to stay on top of my cluttered house and office. I have learned to live amongst the clutter. My sister would have a cow if she would see it as it normally is (sensor). I lose things easily (or my house eats things - that's my excuse) :D , so I have a good filing systems to keep me on track (with reminders where I put things in the filing system!) Oh, there are many more issues, but... all I can say is that it's just tough to keep on top of things... so I don't.

Anyway, enjoy!
 
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Kiddo

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I remember as a little kid I had a nasty habit of getting so excited that I would forget to put on my pants before leaving the house. So of course the whole neighborhood usually got a good look at my whitey tightys before I figured it out. :blushing:

I was never fully aware of how inept I am at noticing what is going on around me until the day I crossed an intersection against a light because I was lost in thought. I can still hear the screeching of tires and all those people cussing at me.

My apartment can be a complete mess, but I always know where everything is. The quickest way to piss me off is to try to clean it.

And of course, whenever I go shopping with my INTJ friend, without fail we forget where we parked the car.
 

quietgirl

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And of course, whenever I go shopping with my INTJ friend, without fail we forget where we parked the car.

One time a friend & I had to ask a Walmart parking lot security guy to drive us around the huge lot because we couldn't remember where we had parked.
 

Sandy

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OH! I forgot! ONCE, I left the house early one morning to go to a staff meeting; I was aghast when one of my male colleagues started laughing out loud, POINTING AT MY SHOES... I had inadvertently worn one black and one navy blue pump! I was livid! :blushing: I played it off well and laughed at myself! (I did this one other time, but at church!!! This time, it was one pointed toe and one rounded toe black pump -- it was awful! ) *thud*

At one time, I had reasoned that since my feet are so small (size 5.5), it's hard to find shoes that can fit correctly. So when I found a good pair of shoes that I liked, I got a pair of each color that I could find. Never again... those dark shoes all look the same underneath the bed in a dark room. :rolli:
 

wolfmaiden14

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I hate when I'm looking for something, and I KNOW it's right in front of my face, but I just can't see it!

I'm very much oblivious. I warn people about it, constantly telling them not to expect me to be observant. Especially lately, I get this feeling I'm not even USING my eyes half the time. It's kind of neat.. when I realize I'm doing it and really try to ground myself, everything looks a little brighter. :wubbie:

I trip over stuff a lot. When I'm overheated or sick I also have a tendency to crash into walls or door frames. :blush:

I have, however, learned how to navigate that "claw" pretty well if I need to. My father (I'm THINKING ISTJ gone wrong)had no clue how to see outside of his own ways of thinking, and my obliviousness drove him NUTS because I wouldn't notice housework that needed to be done without being told, or I wouldn't do it to his liking or his way. The best story I have of this is one time when he told me to feed the dogs, so I did, and then got reprimanded because I didn't notice that they needed water too. Or how I used to push the vacuum around, not realizing I was stepping on fluffy clean carpet, rather than starting in a corner and pulling the vacuum in front of me. I constantly got berated and called stupid or told "I wasn't listening" or was "doing it on purpose" ...For a people-pleasing INFJ, this pretty much hurt me on numerous levels. So.. I worked really hard on developing SOME sort of Se to try and make him happy. Though, it never really worked. -.-
 

quietgirl

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I trip over stuff a lot. When I'm overheated or sick I also have a tendency to crash into walls or door frames. :blush:

I do this and I also bang my hips on edges of tables a lot. When I worked in the service industry, I'd come home with bruises from banging into tables, etc.
 

wolfmaiden14

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I do this and I also bang my hips on edges of tables a lot. When I worked in the service industry, I'd come home with bruises from banging into tables, etc.

Yes! That too. I never could understand how even living in the same house for 18 years, I managed to bump into tables and corners and stub my toes on a normal basis! And let's not forget all the burns from working in food service too. :doh:
 

Domino

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Anyone else ever been told that your motto should be: "Wha...? Wait a minute! What is this!? I didn't authorize this change!" (add spinning around in confusion for full effect)

I do this just about every morning, as if I have amnesia. *sad sorry head shake*

I bump into things too! So it's not just me and LadyJaye!
 

cascadeco

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To answer this question rather intangibly, since the other sensory stuff doesn't apply to me so much....my biggest 'sensory obstacle' is the fact that I have to have a job and make a living in a world that I am often at odds with. I truly can't stand much of today's world and how it operates....so that's my personal sensory obstacle, since it's nearly all sensory stuff to operate/'survive' within it. As for what I do about it, well, that's what my life appears to be all about.....figuring out the big stuff and trying to figure out my path. :)

But...that's not the obstacle you're talking about....so, to carry on in the spirit of the thread and get things back to light and fluffy, I DO bump into walls/corners on occasion, but I always thought that was just a neurological issue or something. :blush: Apparently not!! It's hilarious to me that so many others do it!! :)
 

Domino

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To answer this question rather intangibly, since the other sensory stuff doesn't apply to me so much....my biggest 'sensory obstacle' is the fact that I have to have a job and make a living in a world that I am often at odds with. I truly can't stand much of today's world and how it operates....so that's my personal sensory obstacle, since it's nearly all sensory stuff to operate/'survive' within it. As for what I do about it, well, that's what my life appears to be all about.....figuring out the big stuff and trying to figure out my path. :)

But...that's not the obstacle you're talking about....so, to carry on in the spirit of the thread and get things back to light and fluffy, I DO bump into walls/corners on occasion, but I always thought that was just a neurological issue or something. :blush: Apparently not!! It's hilarious to me that so many others do it!! :)


Oh, well-said. Well-said. LadyJaye and I feel the exact same way. It's frequently the biggest mountain looming on the horizon for us. We don't feel compatible with the way things are laid out in modern society, like it's too high-impact or inauthentic or too difficult/abusive.

You people don't understand how relieved I am to know I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
 

cascadeco

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Oh, well-said. Well-said. LadyJaye and I feel the exact same way. It's frequently the biggest mountain looming on the horizon for us. We don't feel compatible with the way things are laid out in modern society, like it's too high-impact or inauthentic or too difficult/abusive.

You people don't understand how relieved I am to know I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

Uggh...the mountain has crept up to me all of a sudden. It's no longer looming, it's right HERE in front of me.

It's like...every 2-3 yrs I have a major 'question-my-life-what-am-I-doing-ACK!!! HELP!!' episode, where I have to make changes and figure out how to forge my own path in this world and stay true to myself but also be happy and thrive in it....it's so hard for me....but I've done it in the past so I know I can do it again (even though the 'answer' is always different every time), and after figuring it out, even though I come out stronger and perhaps at a slightly higher plateau, it's always with an awareness and recognition that I'll have to face it again in the future....

So I'd been coasting along just dandily for 2-3 yrs, and now the mountain is smacking me in the face again. Sigh. So, if any of this makes any sense at all, I now get to 'look forward' to about 2-5 months, or more, of trying to figure out what to do again, because I've hit that place again where I need to make a change. Serious life assessment again, regarding job/residence/relationships/life purpose/etc/ect/sigh:cry: ....because things just don't seem to be lining up for me at the moment. I'm not at peace. I know I'll figure it out eventually, but in the meantime..ug.....anyway, yeah.

Don't mind me. Perhaps I should start a blog rather than consistently derailing threads, hahaha.;)
 

wolfmaiden14

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It's like...every 2-3 yrs I have a major 'question-my-life-what-am-I-doing-ACK!!! HELP!!' episode, where I have to make changes and figure out how to forge my own path in this world and stay true to myself but also be happy and thrive in it....it's so hard for me....but I've done it in the past so I know I can do it again (even though the 'answer' is always different every time), and after figuring it out, even though I come out stronger and perhaps at a slightly higher plateau, it's always with an awareness and recognition that I'll have to face it again in the future....

A-freaking-men!! Now, this may only be the first time it's hit me, but I can see it needing to happen over and over, and that's why I can't even seem to climb out this first time. Seems pointless.


Let's face it.. society, especially American, just isn't fit for NFs. How can service-oriented types thrive within a capitalistic culture that pretty much forces you to screw over others or "beat the system" to get ahead? Not to mention teaches you not to trust anybody.. even though we want to love them. ><

You've no idea how much I'd love to just be able to travel around like Xena and Herc, helping people where I can. But no.. I have to have a job, and a house, and function in society somehow. And I certainly can't rely on people around me to help me out. :( (Not that they don't, or wouldn't.. just that I can't RELY on it, and certainly not stake my well being on it.)

oh.. erm.. forgive the :offtopic:
 
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