[ENFP] Is there an ENFP Fi-Si loop?

[bighairything]

Every now and then you'll stumble across the concept of an Xi-Yi loop on this forum, and I was wondering if there was an Fi-Si loop for ENFPs. I saw a thread about the INFP Fi-Si loop, but I couldn't really relate to it. Yet every time I spend too long on my own I start to go loopy. Any thoughts anyone?

 

[jenocyde]

I think a lot of ENFPs are more prone to the Ne-Te loop.

 

[bighairything]

I think a lot of ENFPs are more prone to the Ne-Te loop.

Chance would be a fine thing, I'd love a bit more Te in my life

Seriously though, how do you think the Ne-Te loop expresses itself?

 

[jenocyde]

Chance would be a fine thing, I'd love a bit more Te in my life

Seriously though, how do you think the Ne-Te loop expresses itself?

First of all, it can come off as rather abrasive. Even the sweetest ENFP can be seen as a hardened jerk in the workplace. Ne-Te lays the smackdown. It can be forceful and aggressive and intrusive, on the negative side.

On the positive side, it can be quite efficient and organized. It's cute, actually.

I see a lot of danger though when there is no Fi processing. I knew this one ENFP guy who would create constructs for all the Ne idea rambles that went on in his head. Like when he believed his wife was cheating, Ne would generate a million and one possibilities and ideas about everything his wife said or did. Te would make it concrete because it fit into the construct of a cheating wife. He never double checked his Fi to see if he really felt his devoted wife would do that to him, you know what I mean? It was a like a beast on the loose with no internal analysis for validation or authenticity.

 

[bighairything]

First of all, it can come off as rather abrasive. Even the sweetest ENFP can be seen as a hardened jerk in the workplace. Ne-Te lays the smackdown. It can be forceful and aggressive and intrusive, on the negative side.

Hell yeah! I never thought about it in terms of an Ne-Te loop before, but you're absolutely right. I've worked in places where I've been incredibly difficult to get along with for people that I didn't like (and some that I did like).

On the positive side, it can be quite efficient and organized. It's cute, actually.

I can see this too, including the part about how it can come across as cute. Especially with xNTPs, I do sometimes find myself figuratively (and occasionally literally) tidying up after them.

I see a lot of danger though when there is no Fi processing. I knew this one ENFP guy who would create constructs for all the Ne idea rambles that went on in his head. Like when he believed his wife was cheating, Ne would generate a million and one possibilities and ideas about everything his wife said or did. Te would make it concrete because it fit into the construct of a cheating wife. He never double checked his Fi to see if he really felt his devoted wife would do that to him, you know what I mean? It was a like a beast on the loose with no internal analysis for validation or authenticity.

It's something I've not really experienced much, but I can see how that can happen. I once made a girl cry on the basis that I thought she had just split up with me. It was only years later that it occurred to me that maybe "we're still friends, right?" didn't quite have the same loaded meaning in Spanish, in Mexico, as it does over here.

 

[sculpting]

When Si shows up it is only briefly under massive stress. It makes me get really weird about other people changing structures or details of my projects. I become a really bitchy ISTJ. A good example was two layers of my bosses trying to change shipment orders of my instrument at the end of a quarter when chaos reigns.

ONLY I CAN CHANGE THE ORDERS AND IT MUST BE DONE THIS WAY. Quite neurotic but it seems to be a panic last ditch effort to maintain stability.

older enfps seem to have grown into Si and use it to tone down the Ne flights of fancy and do so quite well.

First of all, it can come off as rather abrasive. Even the sweetest ENFP can be seen as a hardened jerk in the workplace. Ne-Te lays the smackdown. It can be forceful and aggressive and intrusive, on the negative side.

On the positive side, it can be quite efficient and organized. It's cute, actually.

We took the DISC analysis this week at our sales meeting. I scored exceptionally D and moderate I. In the text it said "When under massive stress Happy Puppy can become VERY aggressive and exhibit rapid shifts in behavior." Shock! I am hanging this on my office door. NeTe at its finest.

They kept asking me where I kept the bodies....

(My ESTP friend got told she had a personality disorder and all on the ENTPs are "frustrated" and "uncertain of their identities". Meditating ENTP actually got into an argument with the lady going over the results.)

The enfps all had two common requests due to Te raising its head:
1. Direct open communication
2. Do not assume passion equates with a lack of logic.

I sort of knew this myself from chats here but it was awesome to see it validated in a large peer group. Check out the NeTe thread of why do enfps want Te...those were both good.

I see a lot of danger though when there is no Fi processing. I knew this one ENFP guy who would create constructs for all the Ne idea rambles that went on in his head. Like when he believed his wife was cheating, Ne would generate a million and one possibilities and ideas about everything his wife said or did. Te would make it concrete because it fit into the construct of a cheating wife. He never double checked his Fi to see if he really felt his devoted wife would do that to him, you know what I mean? It was a like a beast on the loose with no internal analysis for validation or authenticity.

We cant see the unspoken Fe innuendos so learn early, to assume the worst when in doubt, in an effort to maximize protection of Fi. ISTJs do this too. Combined with Ne in an enfp this can be a disaster. Thus we really will jump to the worst possible interpretation of a negative situation.

I like the "Fi checking" as it explains why enfps can be so good at occupations like marketing or operations. It has to be big picture and based on shitty data with massive people contamination. Ne vision with Te structuring is required but the Fi is that visceral check to see if it "makes sense" from a people perspective.

I now have an ENFP COO and my new marketing director is an enfp. Our VP of Rnd is also an ENFP-all using an Fe flavored Te. I feel surrounded by happy, affirming love vibrations and abrasive, direct, blunt communication.

just like heaven.

 

[bighairything]

I feel surrounded by happy, affirming love vibrations and abrasive, direct, blunt communication.

just like heaven.

 

[jenocyde]

I was waiting for you to show up, Puppy! I even wanted to tell him to talk to you directly since you know so much stuff about this, but I didn't want to call you out against your will. (I learned my lesson, big time! )

I have to admit, it's hard for me to accept the ENFP parts of your DISC assessment, even though I know it's true, due to the gross inaccuracy of the ExTP results. Ugh. That scoring is a highly personal value judgment from the person who wrote the test.

 

[bighairything]

Well, at the risk of derailing my own thread even further, I'm actually a bit sceptical when it comes to lower order functions. I haven't so far seen a compelling empirical case that there are four functions that people "have". For instance, in online function tests my third and fourth strongest functions are by some distance Ti and Se, and I possibly even rely more heavily on Fe than I do on Te.

But then again, being sceptical doesn't mean being closed-minded, and the notion of lower order functions open up interesting possibilities, which is why I raise the topic.

So with this disclaimer out of the way, returning to my original post: what is it that can cause an extroverted ENFP to get stuck in introverted cycles of behaviour? I like being around other people, am generally happy when I am around other people, and for the most part get my energy off being around them. Yet when I get cut off from them, it can be extremely difficult to reconnect. Even when I know that all I need to do is pick up a phone and arrange to meet a friend, it can be very difficult to do this. When I'm alone I get depressed, and when I'm depressed I don't feel like seeing other people, but it's precisely because I haven't been seeing other people that I'm depressed in the first place.

Can anyone think of a functional basis for explaining this?

Maybe it's an NeFi loop where Ne has turned inward on itself (but not turned into Ni). When I'm cut off from the world, the quickest way to get my Ne fix is through the internet. This causes Fi to stir - pleasure at getting some sort of Ne fix, sadness at being cut off face to face contact with other people - causing me to turn to the internet for another Ne hit etc etc.

 

[ergophobe]

Yes-there is an Fi-Si loop for ENFPS. I think I would describe it as an Ne-Fi-Si loop without adequate help from Te. This is the ENFP paranoia loop too. Ne thinks of possibilities, Fi catches on to the worst of the lot, Si helps remember past events that may nor may not objectively support what Fi feels but Fi interprets them negatively anyway....rinse and repeat. When Te is strong, it helps detach and view all of the paranoia as intriguing but completely laughable. I am better able to discern with the detachment Te provides, what situations deserve the loopiness...

I'm not sure I understand the Ne-Te as a loop...I can completely see how Ne-Te with weak Fi and or Fe can be abrasive and ordering in a counterproductive manner, particularly in times of stress or with little thought given to checking in with Fi, that most helpful of judging functions. The example Jeno used above sounds more like Ne-Fi-Si rather than Ne-Te.

 

[Poki]

First of all, it can come off as rather abrasive. Even the sweetest ENFP can be seen as a hardened jerk in the workplace. Ne-Te lays the smackdown. It can be forceful and aggressive and intrusive, on the negative side.

I think the Ne-Te smackdown is different then the Ne-Te loop. I would say the loop is externally digging to get to the bottom of things. Getting stuck in that external search until you find what you were looking for.

 

[jenocyde]

Ok, to clarify, Ne-Te can lead to being utterly convinced about something that has no basis in logic. And the person continues to try to create reasons why this logic is the truth, rather than analyzing why it may not be. I've seen this loop often. It measures behavior and draws the wrong conclusion because the data is not processed properly.

Fi-Si is something that I have rarely seen in an ENFP, especially when Ne is strong, but it shows itself as submission and being easily influenced. I see this more in INFPs.

 

[CzeCze]

I feel surrounded by happy, affirming love vibrations and abrasive, direct, blunt communication.

just like heaven.

Hahaha...umm...

I'm convinced now that one of my former managers was an ENFP. In corporate settings everyone is encouraged to be some form of TJ, so I chalked up her bizarre behavior to that. But, the Ne-Te work mode makes more sense. She could be down right loopy at work and flip from laughing and making silly jokes (Ne-Fi running free?) to *BAM* doing the Te smackdown in a second. She also didn't manage well (or at all) so overall I found it really confusing.

If she was an ENFP, the Ne-Te smackdown combined with all the other goofy soft ENFPness was wonders for her career. The fact she could be . "abrasive" and "aggressive" and intractable meant she played well in that particular corporate environment.

BTW - I'm kinda horrified to think that I may come off like that ^^ at work.
So unpleasant. But I know I can get in that mode when I just want to get something done and become humorless and maybe even ruthless. I think your Fi has to tell you (strongly) though that you are in the right and especially that someone/something is trying to do something "wrong" for the Ne-Te mode to go into effect.

As for the Fi-Si loop - oh definitely there's a loop! Or I dunno, I characterize it as Fi-Si. I touched on it in my 'anger' thread, but I think being able to vividly recall events and emotionally re-experience them, over and over and over again....that's Fi-Si. So you can be super sentimental. At worst, it's kinda like having self-induced Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. When you don't want to keep thinking or feeling an event but you 'can't help it'.

I taught myself how to get out of that ^^ by completely ignoring events that triggered or bothered me - after I processed them as best as I could with Ti/Fi and in theory put it to rest. If there's nothing more I can do in the present to process it, I put it to bed and resolve to be a better person and more capable later to come back to it and process it. Or maybe ignore the events themselves and process the root issues and fallout from them.

Does that make sense?

 

[sculpting]

I was waiting for you to show up, Puppy! I even wanted to tell him to talk to you directly since you know so much stuff about this, but I didn't want to call you out against your will. (I learned my lesson, big time! )

I have to admit, it's hard for me to accept the ENFP parts of your DISC assessment, even though I know it's true, due to the gross inaccuracy of the ExTP results. Ugh. That scoring is a highly personal value judgment from the person who wrote the test.

I'll start a disc thread and scan my results in. It does a good job of Te, Fi and Fe, but really screws up the last letter "C" with-Ti and SiTe getting mixed up. I think a lot of this stuff is actually written up by ENFPs as we do love to make up personality theories which-if they fit "our" evidence-we will accept as fact until proven wrong. This DISC may work for TeFi users but is all screwed up for TiFe users Keep in mind Te loves fierce arguments and very blunt disagreement but will come across as sounding very "right" even when it is halfway wrong.

Always call Te users on this-they dont mind honestly. We correct given new data as we arent attached in anyway to the idea-it is just a tool.

So with this disclaimer out of the way, returning to my original post: what is it that can cause an extroverted ENFP to get stuck in introverted cycles of behaviour? I like being around other people, am generally happy when I am around other people, and for the most part get my energy off being around them. Yet when I get cut off from them, it can be extremely difficult to reconnect. Even when I know that all I need to do is pick up a phone and arrange to meet a friend, it can be very difficult to do this. When I'm alone I get depressed, and when I'm depressed I don't feel like seeing other people, but it's precisely because I haven't been seeing other people that I'm depressed in the first place.

Can anyone think of a functional basis for explaining this?

Maybe it's an NeFi loop where Ne has turned inward on itself (but not turned into Ni). When I'm cut off from the world, the quickest way to get my Ne fix is through the internet. This causes Fi to stir - pleasure at getting some sort of Ne fix, sadness at being cut off face to face contact with other people - causing me to turn to the internet for another Ne hit etc etc.

I have to avoid this site honestly-it gets Ne going crazy because I "thread hop" and my brain goes nuts gathering information. Fi makes me tired-the bits of Fe I have seen use so much less mental energy and I feel energized. So as an ENFP I actually dont like going out often. But being alone too often is bad as Ne seeks affirmation. meditation helps calm Ne down and lessen the need for external feedback.

Yes-there is an Fi-Si loop for ENFPS. I think I would describe it as an Ne-Fi-Si loop without adequate help from Te. This is the ENFP paranoia loop too. Ne thinks of possibilities, Fi catches on to the worst of the lot, Si helps remember past events that may nor may not objectively support what Fi feels but Fi interprets them negatively anyway....rinse and repeat. When Te is strong, it helps detach and view all of the paranoia as intriguing but completely laughable. I am better able to discern with the detachment Te provides, what situations deserve the loopiness...

SiFi-hmmmm,

I know I am "away from pain" from an NLP perspective, like my ISTJ brethren, but often I can Ne my way out of the Si memories. I need to understand where the pain points are, but once I have established those boundaries, I can let Ne vision find a path between them. And yup, Te logically dismisses the paranoia, once it figured out that was a pattern.

I do find the FiTe combo would likely wreck havoc on a relationship with a Ti/Fe user. To protect Fi, I MUST have a sense of Te boundaries so I feel safe. However I think Fe and Ti are more like playing a subtle game of tag and that is where the fun is for those folks.

Funny, the Te "boundaries" are amazingly open. Given my "away from" behavior, I can tell you exactly what I do not want and outside of that, I accept most anything.

 

[simulatedworld]

Seriously though, how do you think the Ne-Te loop expresses itself?

Little Linguist's Type Rant

 

[sculpting]

Ok, to clarify, Ne-Te can lead to being utterly convinced about something that has no basis in logic. And the person continues to try to create reasons why this logic is the truth, rather than analyzing why it may not be. I've seen this loop often. It measures behavior and draws the wrong conclusion because the data is not processed properly.

I think this may be why we pair so well with entps. My ENTPs are really lacking in Te-the women have some and do pretty well, but the poor guys are totally without. So they can Ti amazing solutions but have no sense of how to implement operationally.

I am utterly lacking in details which are really connections between points. So I need someone with Ti to help trace logical paths between my NeTe leaps (as well as take beautiful Ne leaps with me) and give me feedback when they are way off or too tainted with Fi prejudice. Didnt really see this as an NeTe pattern though till you pointed it out. Thanks!!

 

[sculpting]

Little Linguist's Type Rant

not bad, not bad. Good job LL! I should find some of my NeTe rants to post too. Sometimes you just have to share the frustration....

 

[garbage]

I can't speak to Ne-Si; as others have said, weak Si is to pinpoint exactly where it's being used. I can definitely field Ne-Te, though.

When it's a subconscious reaction, weak Te brought out to the forefront can bring with it an emotionally-charged but very direct mode of thinking; however, it can also draw the wrong conclusions and be stuck on them. It's almost as if all the possibilities that exist out there are filtered 'incorrectly.' Others have done a better job than I of describing this.

When channeled correctly, though, the 'Ne-Te mode of thinking' can be a powerhouse. Ne sees many different possibilities in a given situation, and Te can bring a great degree of follow-through, a sense of coordination, and a plan of action for the 'best' possibilities. It's a great mentality to get into when trying to be somewhat productive, a niche similar to TeNi and NeTi but also quite different.

NeFi can express personal sentiments pretty well, but it goes off on many, many tangents.. it doesn't bring things 'to the point' like Te does. Sometimes, that's useful; sometimes, it's not. Thus, Te can bring clarity of thought as well.

For me, I think that some of my posts are direct and to the point despite having that Ne flavor to them.. but distilling my sentiments down to a few sentences or so takes some effort. I also think that the video I posted is something along these lines; I had to take my time to reflect when I wanted to answer questions in a direct way.

 

[bighairything]

I have to avoid this site honestly-it gets Ne going crazy because I "thread hop" and my brain goes nuts gathering information. Fi makes me tired-the bits of Fe I have seen use so much less mental energy and I feel energized. So as an ENFP I actually dont like going out often. But being alone too often is bad as Ne seeks affirmation. meditation helps calm Ne down and lessen the need for external feedback.

Yeah, meditation is great for calming down Ne. I've been on a couple of retreats, but away from retreats my Ne fights tooth and nail to stop me from just sitting down and meditating.

Part of my problem is just good old fashioned procrastination. I work from home, freelance, and tend to shut myself off from the world when I have an article to write, which I then proceed to not write, further delaying the moment I can reemerge into the world. I've been doing it for years and its really not working for me. Plus I'm all emo right now because I miss my girlfriend who I haven't seen since just before Christmas. But I'll see her again on Monday

 

[OrangeAppled]

First of all, it can come off as rather abrasive. Even the sweetest ENFP can be seen as a hardened jerk in the workplace. Ne-Te lays the smackdown. It can be forceful and aggressive and intrusive, on the negative side.

On the positive side, it can be quite efficient and organized. It's cute, actually.

I see a lot of danger though when there is no Fi processing. I knew this one ENFP guy who would create constructs for all the Ne idea rambles that went on in his head. Like when he believed his wife was cheating, Ne would generate a million and one possibilities and ideas about everything his wife said or did. Te would make it concrete because it fit into the construct of a cheating wife. He never double checked his Fi to see if he really felt his devoted wife would do that to him, you know what I mean? It was a like a beast on the loose with no internal analysis for validation or authenticity.

This is a good description of it. I've considered starting a Dom-Tert loop thread, discussing how it plays out for each type.

It seems more likely for an extrovert to fall into an extroverted functions loop, and an introvert to fall into an introverted functions loop, but I suppose an ENFP could fall victim to inferior Si. I know my inferior Te can be ugly sometimes.

I suspect a Fi-Si loop for an ENFP would still have some heavy Ne in there, but instead of opening up possibilities like it does for a withdrawn INFP, it may be prone to paranoia more, as Si is less anchoring than it is for an INFP.