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[ENFJ] ENFJ and the dark side

Yloh

New member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
183
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Hello everybody! :hi:

From what I have read of the ENFJ profile it said we can have dark thoughts when we are all alone. At first I was like I can totally relate to this. It is kind of weird because I would rather never have any dark thoughts.

For me, I love people in general. I want to learn all about them, be a part of them, help them, and just all of that awesome stuff. I often think of ways on how to make our world a better place. What makes it hard is I often come to a conclusion of "If everybody did things this way, things would be better" attitude. Also, thinking about stuff at a global level can make one realize how unfair the world can be (good people not getting their share).

What happens is those realities and expectations come pouring in at me. This cause me to hate people in general. Rather on a larger scale or a smaller personal level, the drive to help combined with the harsh reality can be really hard.

The worst part is realizing that I can be part of the problem sometimes.

Today, ridding myself of those dark thoughts is something I have actually done pretty well. I still have them every now and them, as everybody has their moments, but it isn't a reoccurring theme in my life like it use to.

I think a lot of my problem is being hyper sensitive and going overboard with the Ni and assuming too many things. These issues I have both addressed and taken time to work on.

Being an ENFJ Se is my relief function. In my case, it helps me realize I'm making things too hard on my self. No expectations, no motivations, no worries. Doing things I enjoy doing for fun, here and now, also helps takes things off my mind. Se is a function I truly want to make a larger impact in my life.

Don't worry Ni, I still love you, and looking at things at all of the angles is what really energies me. Sometimes though, I can get a little overcharge.

Sometimes I feel alone in this world and was wondering if anybody in here could relate.
 

Yloh

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Messages
183
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I know this is a deep and personal subject, so nobody has to say anything. I just wanted to share what was on my mind for once.
 

Qre:us

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Nov 21, 2008
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One of my best friends is an ENFJ, and her dark side is that she can get very hurt, very deeply, and become depressed over it......esp. in relationships. She also likes to over-analyze interpersonal stuff, and it gets the best of her.

It helps for her to have a sounding board who can put her feelings into perspective rather than it fester and morph into something bigger and bigger. She also finds stress relief, like you do, in engaging in physical stuff (going to the gym, running, etc.)
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
extended alone time + ENFJ= big no no. For me personally, I start exhibiting unhealthy behavior if that occurs.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
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Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
My ENFJ best friend gets suicidal every time he lives alone - he loves it at first, and then slowly this dark brooding takes over. He ends up moving back with his parents. It's a cycle.

It's funny, because he tests INFx, but I can't see how he is an introvert when he cannot deal with too much time alone and is always needing interaction. I think he just likes the idea of introversion (you know, it seems "deeper" and more "mysterious"). His Fe is steering the wheel, from my 20+ years as his friend perspective :tongue:
 

Southern Kross

Away with the fairies
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Dec 22, 2008
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so/sp
Hello everybody! :hi:

From what I have read of the ENFJ profile it said we can have dark thoughts when we are all alone. At first I was like I can totally relate to this. It is kind of weird because I would rather never have any dark thoughts.

For me, I love people in general. I want to learn all about them, be a part of them, help them, and just all of that awesome stuff. I often think of ways on how to make our world a better place. What makes it hard is I often come to a conclusion of "If everybody did things this way, things would be better" attitude. Also, thinking about stuff at a global level can make one realize how unfair the world can be (good people not getting their share).

What happens is those realities and expectations come pouring in at me. This cause me to hate people in general. Rather on a larger scale or a smaller personal level, the drive to help combined with the harsh reality can be really hard.

The worst part is realizing that I can be part of the problem sometimes.

Today, ridding myself of those dark thoughts is something I have actually done pretty well. I still have them every now and them, as everybody has their moments, but it isn't a reoccurring theme in my life like it use to.

I think a lot of my problem is being hyper sensitive and going overboard with the Ni and assuming too many things. These issues I have both addressed and taken time to work on.

Being an ENFJ Se is my relief function. In my case, it helps me realize I'm making things too hard on my self. No expectations, no motivations, no worries. Doing things I enjoy doing for fun, here and now, also helps takes things off my mind. Se is a function I truly want to make a larger impact in my life.

Don't worry Ni, I still love you, and looking at things at all of the angles is what really energies me. Sometimes though, I can get a little overcharge.

Sometimes I feel alone in this world and was wondering if anybody in here could relate.
I think the general feelings you describe here are common to all NFs. The "If everybody did things this way, things would be better" thoughts I can strongly sympathize with. I experience them daily. Its must be even harder for a ENFJ, because I feel like XNFPs can cope a little better with the vast (and depressing) gap between their ideal vision and reality - and we deal better with negative thoughts in general. ENFJs seem to feel a stronger need to personally take action and solve the problem, but if the problem is overwhelming it must be very difficult to live with. The hardest thing can be coming to accept our relative ineffectuality in the grand scheme of things. However, this does not mean that you can make no difference in the world - just in a narrower scope.

Although agnostic, I'm a strong believer in the serenity prayer. It really helps me when it comes to dark thoughts:

God, grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change;
The courage to change the things that I can;
And the wisdom to know the difference.


I also like you, find it hard not to care so much - life would be great if we could just stop worrying so much and let go :yes:. Its not easy though.
 

MmmCrazy

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Joined
Oct 3, 2009
Messages
37
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
3
Hello everybody! :hi:

From what I have read of the ENFJ profile it said we can have dark thoughts when we are all alone. At first I was like I can totally relate to this. It is kind of weird because I would rather never have any dark thoughts.

For me, I love people in general. I want to learn all about them, be a part of them, help them, and just all of that awesome stuff. I often think of ways on how to make our world a better place. What makes it hard is I often come to a conclusion of "If everybody did things this way, things would be better" attitude. Also, thinking about stuff at a global level can make one realize how unfair the world can be (good people not getting their share).

What happens is those realities and expectations come pouring in at me. This cause me to hate people in general. Rather on a larger scale or a smaller personal level, the drive to help combined with the harsh reality can be really hard.

The worst part is realizing that I can be part of the problem sometimes.

Today, ridding myself of those dark thoughts is something I have actually done pretty well. I still have them every now and them, as everybody has their moments, but it isn't a reoccurring theme in my life like it use to.

I think a lot of my problem is being hyper sensitive and going overboard with the Ni and assuming too many things. These issues I have both addressed and taken time to work on.

Being an ENFJ Se is my relief function. In my case, it helps me realize I'm making things too hard on my self. No expectations, no motivations, no worries. Doing things I enjoy doing for fun, here and now, also helps takes things off my mind. Se is a function I truly want to make a larger impact in my life.

Don't worry Ni, I still love you, and looking at things at all of the angles is what really energies me. Sometimes though, I can get a little overcharge.

Sometimes I feel alone in this world and was wondering if anybody in here could relate.

YESSS I RELATE TO THISSSS. Goodness. I like spending time alone but I almost ALWAYS end up thinking about something that depresses me. Just intense depression. And then someone will walk in the door and I have to pretend like nothing happened so I'm all bright and cheery again. Definitely better to be around people than to be alone.

But sometimes the stuff I think up just won't leave me alone. ): That's when it's time to call in the INFPs!
 

Unkindloving

Lungs & Lips Locked
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Dec 10, 2009
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2,963
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My main issue with ENFJ is that all of the ones i come across are so good. Ideally, you want to ward off the bad and embrace the good or potential good. Of course this is respectable, but i live by keeping the realism. I've embraced my dark thoughts and i utilize them to better grasp myself and others. It gives me a better handle on what is feasible for me to accomplish in my life and as an ENFJ.
I swear our heavy emotional intensity is in place so we can empathize and take on larger hoards of people, but our heavy emotional intensity makes us less likely to manage all of that empathy and all of those people. It can cause our greatest imperfections, especially if we can't embrace and understand it.

This does make me curious though. Realistically and ideally, what are your goals in life?

Fe dom and Ni aux certainly affect the hell out of me, but i don't find that my basis is as externalized as most other ENFJs. I focus intensely on the people i am close with in my life and don't really care about my ability to affect the rest. If they get affected along the way then it is an unexpected bonus round. There is a point where you come first and i have drilled that into my head quite frequently, especially under the pretense of "Others have more potential to benefit from you if you understand/focus on yourself more."

Maybe certain things just wouldn't get done if ENFJs were inherently like i am, but maybe less ENFJs would suffer the consequences. That becomes an externalizing/internalizing battle of its own.
 

Yloh

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Jul 31, 2009
Messages
183
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ENFJ
Thanks everybody for being able to relate. I also find that being around people just makes things better in general.

This does make me curious though. Realistically and ideally, what are your goals in life?

To answer your question.

Ideally: To be perfect :D
Realistically: To be a positive influence for other people
 

Unkindloving

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Ideally: To be perfect :D
Realistically: To be a positive influence for other people

Oh the good! :falls over: :laugh:
Is it truly all-encompassing? I just can't imagine maintaining both self-preservation and all-encompassing positive influence, but there could be a middle-ground or skill that i'm missing.
Either way, respectable :hug:
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
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Nov 5, 2007
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I need a lot of time every day to myself to stay sane. But I also need people very much. I would wither out in the middle of nowhere.

I have a broad dark streak. I didn't know what to make of it when I was younger and feared it. Since then, I've learned what it really is, and am no longer afraid of it. It seems paradoxical to have such deep feelings of kindness and care for my fellow man, and revolve around humanity while naturally having wrack and storm rolling across my plain, over and over in succession.

Light and shadow, bound together inextricably.

I use my Se as a relief valve too, Yloh.
 

Domino

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I swear our heavy emotional intensity is in place so we can empathize and take on larger hoards of people, but our heavy emotional intensity makes us less likely to manage all of that empathy and all of those people. It can cause our greatest imperfections, especially if we can't embrace and understand it.

You're not kidding, sister.


Fe dom and Ni aux certainly affect the hell out of me, but i don't find that my basis is as externalized as most other ENFJs. I focus intensely on the people i am close with in my life and don't really care about my ability to affect the rest.

My Ni and Fe tie me to a chair and do what they like. There's not a single bag of chips or cabinet unopened while I'm trying to free myself. The other day, my Ni spat up almost 8,500 separate words. "Look look! I'm a pocket dictionary!"

My Fe was delighted by this, clapped it's hands and shouted, "Do it again!"

By the time I got free from the duct tape, my brain was on fire and the house was a mess.

I internalize events/actions/words automatically. I don't know how NOT to. It's automatic. Then again, I don't live very externally. I keep myself under wraps. I wear flashy clothes because it suits me, but I'm neither confessional nor free-wheeling.
 

nynesneg

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Oct 18, 2009
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Your words are so tantalizing to the intellect, and remarkably thought provoking.

/is envious

I can relate to quite a bit of what all the above posters said, with some variations of course.

I particularly noticed the other day how much I enjoy using Ni to surmise hypothesis and theories, systems. The inner Ti of puzzle solving too. BF seems to completely lack both, thus my consciously noticing them.
 

Afkan

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Jan 3, 2009
Messages
324
For me, I love people in general. I want to learn all about them, be a part of them, help them, and just all of that awesome stuff. I often think of ways on how to make our world a better place. What makes it hard is I often come to a conclusion of "If everybody did things this way, things would be better" attitude. Also, thinking about stuff at a global level can make one realize how unfair the world can be (good people not getting their share).What happens is those realities and expectations come pouring in at me. ... Rather on a larger scale or a smaller personal level, the drive to help combined with the harsh reality can be really hard. The worst part is realizing that I can be part of the problem sometimes.

I get into this rut too. Yet we both still know that if everybody did things "this way" there would be negative consequences. How would people learn, for example? I know when I start to think like this its a red flag that i need less Fe.

This cause me to hate people in general.
:yes:I know what you mean. This means RETREAT FROM THE WORLD and get your head on straight!!! for me. Is that what you've found?

Being an ENFJ Se is my relief function. In my case, it helps me realize I'm making things too hard on my self. No expectations, no motivations, no worries. Doing things I enjoy doing for fun, here and now, also helps takes things off my mind. Se is a function I truly want to make a larger impact in my life.
Omigosh Se is THE BEST for this. I think sometimes I at least appear to be ALL Se bc its such a preference. Its SUCH a relief. There are of course consequences that come from being too Se heavy, but still...

Sometimes I feel alone in this world and was wondering if anybody in here could relate.
Absofriginlutely.
 

nynesneg

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Help.

I'm loosing my faith in humanity.

Anyone?

Anyone?



Seems like all the people I've gotten to know as friends recently have seemed perfectly normal like you and I and wonderful smart, intelligent friends... Until I've gotten to know them better after several months. Then I find out either they are really slutty doing inappropriate stuff with superiors at work, or they are secretly so depressed with life that little things overwhelm them, and they resort to crushing their anti-depressants and sniffing them off the table several times a night while we're hanging out.

Not that I'm going to judge, actually I feel sorry for them, but...

When they start talking about bringing the heroin over, I mentally go (uh wtf?) we are intelligent aspiring business people here...

I'm almost afraid to get to know more people at school/work personally now.

I like my rosy make-belief view of them being normal. :puppy_dog_eyes:
 

Unkindloving

Lungs & Lips Locked
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Help.

I'm loosing my faith in humanity.

Anyone?

Anyone?



Seems like all the people I've gotten to know as friends recently have seemed perfectly normal like you and I and wonderful smart, intelligent friends... Until I've gotten to know them better after several months. Then I find out either they are really slutty doing inappropriate stuff with superiors at work, or they are secretly so depressed with life that little things overwhelm them, and they resort to crushing their anti-depressants and sniffing them off the table several times a night while we're hanging out.

Not that I'm going to judge, actually I feel sorry for them, but...

When they start talking about bringing the heroin over, I mentally go (uh wtf?) we are intelligent aspiring business people here...

I'm almost afraid to get to know more people at school/work personally now.

I like my rosy make-belief view of them being normal. :puppy_dog_eyes:

This is something you have to come to terms with and better sooner than later.
Humans are dysfunctional creatures, riddled with issues and bad coping skills. You're going to want to save them, but you can't save them from themselves. You're going to want to withdraw and do so if you must, but realize that dysfunction will resonate in so many of the people you will meet. You don't need to be around that sort, but don't be surprised when you can open your eyes and it is there in front of you.

If you sift through them all and far too quickly, you'll surely miss some that will inevitably pick up their own pieces. You may end up sifting through everyone, but who is to say.
Keep your faith in the fact that people are people. They are amazing by default based on their ability to make choices. It doesn't mean you have to stand by their choices.
 

nynesneg

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I just haven't gotten to know people personally with so much shit until recently. Yeah, everyone has the usual I-don't-get-along-with-my-family story, divorce, or insecurities story. But this is different.

I'm just trying to make some normal intelligent business friends that I can hang out with. /sigh. I can't be the I'm-going-to-make-you-feel-good-about-life-because-I'm empathetic friend all the time.


I don't need to save people, I just need hope that there are more people like me out there? Or just who don't turn to drugs and flirting with everyone while married to fulfill their self esteem?

If I'm feeling bad about my life I climb in a hole and over-analyze my life then find actions I can force myself to do Ti "fix" the problem. :shock: Drugs are just a bandaid, they don't fix anything. Yeah I've had shit too, I was anorexic at one point in HS and fucked up because my mom was given 5 years to live with cancer. But that's not who I am now.
 

Unkindloving

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I just haven't gotten to know people personally with so much shit until recently. Yeah, everyone has the usual I-don't-get-along-with-my-family story, divorce, or insecurities story. But this is different.

I'm just trying to make some normal intelligent business friends that I can hang out with. /sigh. I can't be I'm-going-to-make-you-feel-good-about-live-because-I'm empathetic friends all the time.


I don't need to save people, I just need hope that there are more people like me out there? Or just who don't turn to drugs and flirting with everyone to fulfill their self esteem?

Those people definitely exist, but there are heaps of the drug-using/attention-getting sorts. I'm surprised you haven't come across them earlier.
Were i you, i'd ask them "Why?" and then just pass through. Don't be too worried about getting to know other people. There may be some others who have already made their way through the group you're currently around.
Don't lose all hope, basically.
 

nynesneg

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Of course the good Fe person I am I try to help these people and they come to me like a magnet. I exude a depth of understanding and caring, and don't push them away after little annoyances. But if I try to help it's not like it changes anything.
 

Unkindloving

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Of course the good Fe person I am I try to help these people and they come to me like a magnet. I exude a depth of understanding and caring, and don't push them away after little annoyances. But if I try to help it's not like it changes anything.

Eh that is how it goes. :hug: I would just find out their reasoning, perhaps call them out on it. I'm brash though and prefer to give people something to stew over that might snap them from their little bubble eventually.
I'm sure you know you've got to focus on yourself and what you're moving toward. Maybe it will set a good example indirectly and they'll see it or maybe more like-minded people will witness that and better bonds will be formed.
Smack the Fe down with a stick, sometimes it is just like an overly excited puppy that doesn't know what's going on and pees on the floor.
 
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