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[INFJ] INFJs,

fill

"Everything in its place"
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
507
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
753
Is optimism foolish? I think I found one who said so. It was quite discouraging.
 

Lemonade

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
50
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Optimism isn't foolish. Being blind to or ignoring possible consequences is.
 

Tycho

New member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
65
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Knowingly clinging to false hope is foolish, however, I believe being an optimist often leads to more positive outcomes, it inspires more courageous acts and others appreciate you more. It even feels better for yourself to anticipate your feelings on positive rather than negative outcomes.
 

thisGuy

New member
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,187
MBTI Type
entp
hope not...a philosophy test told me i was an optimist
 

Requeim

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Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Messages
473
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
optimism is not foolish, but i'm pessimistic by nature
 

Tiltyred

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Dec 1, 2008
Messages
4,322
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INFP
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468
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sx/sp
Optimism connotes a bit of hysteria to me, so I'd rather say confidence. It's good to be confident about the outcome, whether it's "good" or "bad." I put those words in quotes because they really only mean whether something has gone the way I thought it should have -- but in the end, sometimes I see that they went the way it was best, whether I saw that at the time or not. With this point of view, you win even if you fail. I'm not sure that's the same as optimism, but it works for me, since something in me turns stone deaf when I hear "everything's going to be fine." There have been many times when everything was not fine at all -- but I got through it.
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
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9w1
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sp/sx
Optimism isn't foolish. Being blind to or ignoring possible consequences is.

Agreed.

I think a lot of it boils down to choice, to be honest. Choosing whether to view life more optimistically, and focus your efforts/thoughts/energies more on the positives, or choosing to view life more negatively or cynically, focusing your thoughts moreso on the negatives.

I'm aware of the negatives, and don't think I am blind to them, but after spending many years being more pessimistic, I decided it wasn't worth it and I started to choose to pay more attention to the positives, and tried to bring about a more overall positive outlook on life.
 
P

Phantonym

Guest
I think a lot of it boils down to choice, to be honest. Choosing whether to view life more optimistically, and focus your efforts/thoughts/energies more on the positives, or choosing to view life more negatively or cynically, focusing your thoughts moreso on the negatives.

I agree. I see optimism as a positive force that will help you progress with things and negativity / cynicism that drags you down and holds you back. It's good to be aware of both but, ultimately, it's still up to you which way you will turn and which way will bring you more satisfaction with yourself, others and life in general.
 

Lux

Kraken down on piracy
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
1,458
I too, am a more positive, but not naive INFJ. Like the others have said, I try to think about all of the aspects of a situation that I can think of. I try to see the good and bad. I also make an effort to focus on the positive, because I think every little bit helps.
 

the state i am in

Active member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,475
MBTI Type
infj
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Is optimism foolish? I think I found one who said so. It was quite discouraging.

they're depressed.

there's a really awesome link that i *think* happypuppy posted to an nlp write-up on meta-programs. one of them was "away from" vs "toward." it's the best definition of optimism i've ever seen.

away from is this negative consequence program. you sort according to what could go wrong, what obstacles are in the way, what you don't want to happen, etc.

toward is the opposite. you have a goal in mind. you are moving toward the object of desire. you sort for positive outcomes rather than negative ones.

the advantage of toward as a general outlook, to me, seems well-documented. at least in the sense that you'll be happier. you should thank the away from folks who, rather than just getting you down, deal with some of the shit/contradictions/refuse that you don't want to deal with. at the same time, both perspectives are absolutely necessary for accurate cost-analysis. for implementation. for predictive success (which is the best definition for intelligence, why understanding is important, and ultimately what the brain does). as an extremely slanted away from person, my two favorite friends are an entp and an enfp. the air feels lighter and is easier to breathe. possibilities fall like snowflakes. it's very cooling and comforting. i believe in the future. spring will come, etc.

away from is critique. identifying problems. toward is creativity. moving past them.
 

HollyGolightly

New member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
293
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
1w2
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
As long as you're not blindly optimistic then it's not foolish.
I'd say it's more foolish to believe optimism is foolish...or something. *Confuses self*
 

wedekit

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
694
MBTI Type
INFJ
I'm not a very optimistic person. I assume the worst will happen in just about all situations so that I am not surprised when things don't go the way I planned. I don't think optimism is a bad thing at all, though. True optimists tend to live more positive lives (unsurprisingly) imo, and I really do respect their outlook on life.

If an extreme optimist is naive, what does that make an extreme pessimist?
 

Prime

New member
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Messages
61
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
If I step on the basketball court without optimism, my shots just don't fall in, son.

On the other hand, I never let optimism spill into delusion.
 

scortia

New member
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
201
MBTI Type
INFJ
Candide was optimistic and look where it got him. :p

Voltaire aside, an optimist who isn't naive is a pleasant person to be around. They're typically idealistic. I can pull that off myself sometimes but then I start drowning in cynicism again soon enough.
 

fill

"Everything in its place"
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
507
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
753
Interesting responses. Thanks. Yes, she's going through a difficult phase right now. I'd rather not share details.
 

Froody Blue Gem

Necromancing Scapelamb
Joined
Dec 19, 2018
Messages
1,141
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
954
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sp/so
No, I wouldn't say that it's foolish in the least bit. Seeing the best in things, scenarios is one thing that can keep people going. Though having an outlook like that is often viewed as foolish. Having a completely negative mindset may keep people from reaching their potential. It all depends on one's mindset, but it's easy to get stuck in a certain pattern. There are a lot of nasty things in the world so it's easy to see the worst in things, and seeing that not everything is sunshine and rainbows is partially seeing reality.

If we're honest, there are not always happy endings in life, and we don't always get our way but other doors may open up, and we may be pleasantly surprised by the outcome. You never know... At the same time while people can see things as they are, being mature doesn't always equate to being a constant Negative Nancy all the time. Some people have experiences in life that make them more prone to seeing things that way, and that isn't their fault.
 

Pionart

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,039
MBTI Type
NiFe
Everything will be right in the end!

Hold onto the hope and then brightly ascend!
 

neko 4

New member
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
437
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp
Optimism isn't foolish, I wish I were more optimistic.
 
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