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Thread: INFJs,

  1. #11
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    Is optimism foolish? I think I found one who said so. It was quite discouraging.
    they're depressed.

    there's a really awesome link that i *think* happypuppy posted to an nlp write-up on meta-programs. one of them was "away from" vs "toward." it's the best definition of optimism i've ever seen.

    away from is this negative consequence program. you sort according to what could go wrong, what obstacles are in the way, what you don't want to happen, etc.

    toward is the opposite. you have a goal in mind. you are moving toward the object of desire. you sort for positive outcomes rather than negative ones.

    the advantage of toward as a general outlook, to me, seems well-documented. at least in the sense that you'll be happier. you should thank the away from folks who, rather than just getting you down, deal with some of the shit/contradictions/refuse that you don't want to deal with. at the same time, both perspectives are absolutely necessary for accurate cost-analysis. for implementation. for predictive success (which is the best definition for intelligence, why understanding is important, and ultimately what the brain does). as an extremely slanted away from person, my two favorite friends are an entp and an enfp. the air feels lighter and is easier to breathe. possibilities fall like snowflakes. it's very cooling and comforting. i believe in the future. spring will come, etc.

    away from is critique. identifying problems. toward is creativity. moving past them.

  2. #12
    Senior Member HollyGolightly's Avatar
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    As long as you're not blindly optimistic then it's not foolish.
    I'd say it's more foolish to believe optimism is foolish...or something. *Confuses self*
    "Dad I can't feel my legs."

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  3. #13
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    I'm not a very optimistic person. I assume the worst will happen in just about all situations so that I am not surprised when things don't go the way I planned. I don't think optimism is a bad thing at all, though. True optimists tend to live more positive lives (unsurprisingly) imo, and I really do respect their outlook on life.

    If an extreme optimist is naive, what does that make an extreme pessimist?
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  4. #14
    Member Prime's Avatar
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    If I step on the basketball court without optimism, my shots just don't fall in, son.

    On the other hand, I never let optimism spill into delusion.

  5. #15
    Senior Member scortia's Avatar
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    Candide was optimistic and look where it got him. :P

    Voltaire aside, an optimist who isn't naive is a pleasant person to be around. They're typically idealistic. I can pull that off myself sometimes but then I start drowning in cynicism again soon enough.
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  6. #16
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    Interesting responses. Thanks. Yes, she's going through a difficult phase right now. I'd rather not share details.
    "Poor bastard. Wait 'till he sees the bats. "
    enneagram - 7/5/3
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Froody Blue Gem's Avatar
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    No, I wouldn't say that it's foolish in the least bit. Seeing the best in things, scenarios is one thing that can keep people going. Though having an outlook like that is often viewed as foolish. Having a completely negative mindset may keep people from reaching their potential. It all depends on one's mindset, but it's easy to get stuck in a certain pattern. There are a lot of nasty things in the world so it's easy to see the worst in things, and seeing that not everything is sunshine and rainbows is partially seeing reality.

    If we're honest, there are not always happy endings in life, and we don't always get our way but other doors may open up, and we may be pleasantly surprised by the outcome. You never know... At the same time while people can see things as they are, being mature doesn't always equate to being a constant Negative Nancy all the time. Some people have experiences in life that make them more prone to seeing things that way, and that isn't their fault.
    9w1 5w4 2w3 sp/so

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  8. #18
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Everything will be right in the end!

    Hold onto the hope and then brightly ascend!
    the lone star flies alone

  9. #19
    Senior Member neko 4's Avatar
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    Optimism isn't foolish, I wish I were more optimistic.

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