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[INFJ] When an INFJ doorslams you / cuts you out of their life / breaks off contact

PeaceBaby

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PB, even other NFPs have explained to you why I am not receptive to your approach. We have very few conversations where you don't try to mentor me, but your comments seem personally driven rather than objective. You have loads of credibility for me in other areas, but not in this one. Yet you repeatedly and publicly hammer this point instead of giving some space and seeing if things change (and since the pattern has been reinforced for years, it will take lots of time for my perceptions to be replaced). You don't tend to look for neutral common ground first to relate, even though I know you have a heart of gold. I don't want to be mean or make you feel badly. Therefore, I generally don't interact a lot with you, as all roads always seem to lead back here. I already know you are hurt by my response. I'm already working on changing it, while not acting fake and insincere and maintaining the boundaries I need. Each time you reopen the topic, it undoes some of that and reinforces the reason I felt that way in the first place. Strong arming your way into my heart is not possible. However, I think you are smart, caring and very knowledgeable. I don't harbour any bad feeling toward you. In fact, outside of these discussions, I like you. I just don't feel enough on the same page as you to be besties, and I need you to respect that.

I do not wish to mentor you or be "besties". Although I think you too seem nice and kindly and would likely enjoy meeting you irl.

I'm simply using "us" at the moment as an illustration of one point on the spectrum of the very dynamic the thread discusses. You hold the power and have closed a door. (Not slammed, just closed.) I see this as for a reason that's really not been discussed yet. Now, you only have as much of my power as I give you. And I've given a fair bit away over time by approaching you in the manner you prefer etc. but am pulling mine back by again engaging you on a topic you do not wish to open. Your response is to strong-arm me actually, to hold the power card over my head and tell me you will not engage. You wish to dictate the terms of interaction. And project onto me a purpose for my actions that has the power to offend you yet I do not possess that perspective.

Do you see how this is working? Can you detach for a bit and see I am using "us" as an example here?
 

yeghor

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My perception of the word doorslam is when you cut someone out of your life entirely without warning and with no communication after. Some people seem to habitually do this as a way of avoiding people that frustrate them or make them feel vulnerable. Some people will reintroduce someone back into their life after they have distanced themselves a bit from the situation, and some won't. In the context of this thread at least, that is what I believe it to mean.

Other posters? Are we on the same page here?
 

Eilonwy

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Eilonwy, we make those decisions everyday. When I walk into a crowded room I could engage in conversation with anyone. I can't know where all the conversations could go. So I go on who looks interesting, who I get on with, who I could be of help to, who has knowledge that I need and so on.

I have very little leisure time in my life. Therefore, the bit of time I have is time that I would like to be enjoyable and useful to me. We make decisions based on a variety of criteria about how we will spend our money. Why should it be any different with time?

I get this, but it still feels to me that we are somehow just missing each other in our thinking. I can't tell you why that is at this time. I'll keep trying to work it out.

My perception of the word doorslam is when you cut someone out of your life entirely without warning and with no communication after. Some people seem to habitually do this as a way of avoiding people that frustrate them or make them feel vulnerable. Some people will reintroduce someone back into their life after they have distanced themselves a bit from the situation, and some won't. In the context of this thread at least, that is what I believe it to mean.
Other posters? Are we on the same page here?

Mostly. But, again, I feel that something is missing but I don't know how to describe what that is in a way that gets across. We are dancing around it but not quite hitting it.
 

cascadeco

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As a bystander not tied to any particular perspective in this thread, I think a lot can be summed up as relying very heavily on ones particular perspective, and the act of doing so sets up the resulting dynamic, 100%. It's self-fulfilling in a way, imo - for example, if someone thinks a conversation will be unproductive or pointless, it WILL be so. Does that make sense? If someone goes into something with that perception, that perception alone will determine how things will end up, nine times out of ten. As, this assumption has already been made. This will be conveyed in ones responses, in their demeanor, unconsciously or not, the other person will pick up on that, and yes, it will be unproductive. Because... how could it be otherwise?

btw this extends way beyond interaction, it's a more general psychological thing I think, creating our own realities based on perceptions that may be flawed from the get-go.
 

Z Buck McFate

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Are we talking about the same thing in regards to "doorslam"?

What do you understand by the term "doorslam" in brief terms?


I have begun to see it as when someone (often INFx) really can't handle dealing with some individual- the individual gets overbearing/demanding in some way (usually without even beginning to understand how they're being overbearing, or without knowing that they are causing distress), and so communication/interaction is discontinued/cut off. While I personally only consider it worthwhile to use the term "doorslam" if the parties were close to begin with, I don't know, it looks like opinions on that might differ.

Sometimes it's laziness on the doorslammer's part- they don't feel obligated to do the work of figuring out how to articulate the problem, and "doorslam" cavalierly to avoid feeling any distress. Other doorslammers can wait far too long- out of feeling more loyalty/obligation to others than is good for them- and they get stuck on a sort of hamster wheel where resources are constantly being drained revolving around the problem individual until finally the doorslammer realizes there's probably no end in sight so ties are cut.

And then everyone involved goes online to talk about it, bringing their emotional baggage of the experience to this thread. A good time is had by all.
 

1487610420

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As a bystander not tied to any particular perspective in this thread, I think a lot can be summed up as relying very heavily on ones particular perspective, and the act of doing so sets up the resulting dynamic, 100%. It's self-fulfilling in a way, imo - for example, if someone thinks a conversation will be unproductive or pointless, it WILL be so. Does that make sense? If someone goes into something with that perception, that perception alone will determine how things will end up, nine times out of ten. As, this assumption has already been made. This will be conveyed in ones responses, in their demeanor, unconsciously or not, the other person will pick up on that, and yes, it will be unproductive. Because... how could it be otherwise?

btw this extends way beyond interaction, it's a more general psychological thing I think, creating our own realities based on perceptions that may be flawed from the get-go.

Excellent reasoning, well done, exceptthe minor detail that

:drwho:
 

yeghor

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"My perception of the word doorslam is when you cut someone out of your life entirely without warning and with no communication after."

So there are 2 parties...A and B...

Doorslam = B ends the relationship with A without any heads-up (prior dialogue?) and refuses A's prospective attempts to initiate contact...

So please in as brief and simple terms as possible:

a) What part(s) of this definition is causing the problem?

b) Modify the definition to represent the ideal/proper way to handle the relationship...

c) Under what conditions would the original "doorslam" approach be acceptable?
 

Eilonwy

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I do not wish to mentor you or be "besties". Although I think you too seem nice and kindly and would likely enjoy meeting you irl.

I'm simply using "us" at the moment as an illustration of one point on the spectrum of the very dynamic the thread discusses. You hold the power and have closed a door. (Not slammed, just closed.) I see this as for a reason that's really not been discussed yet. Now, you only have as much of my power as I give you. And I've given a fair bit away over time by approaching you in the manner you prefer etc. but am pulling mine back by again engaging you on a topic you do not wish to open. Your response is to strong-arm me actually, to hold the power card over my head and tell me you will not engage. You wish to dictate the terms of interaction. And project onto me a purpose for my actions that has the power to offend you yet I do not possess that perspective.

Do you see how this is working? Can you detach for a bit and see I am using "us" as an example here?

I can understand what you're saying, but, honestly, I still don't seem to be able to grasp the concept completely. I still want to Ti it to death, so that says to me that I'm missing a piece that would lead to it clicking or to an "aha" moment. Or, perhaps I just need to analyze it more in order for it to click. But then, I still kind of, sort of, want to Ti the doorslam concept, though I seem to be closer in my head to the "aha".

Back to introspecting. :)


ETA: I can see the situation you're describing. What's not clicking for me, I think, is that I still don't completely see it from your pov. I'm still stuck in my own in some way. It's like those old stereograms. I'm staring at the pattern, and I am just starting to focus in a way that I can see the 3D part of it pop out, but I can't keep that focus long enough to have access to it whenever I look at the picture. (the first stereogram that I linked to is a deer and a fawn, I think, but it's not completely clear to me either)
 

jewelluckystar05

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I had something like that happen with an unhealthy INFJ peer once, originally, we got along, but eventually things went downhill and our personalities just started to clash. Even if I just randomly run into the INFJ, it's still the same walking by looking friendly, then walking by looking p.o'd attempts to get their way as before, it's not that I never missed some people from the past, it's just that I'd realized my intellect was reaching more of it's potential once I'd realized controlling people who used excessive guilt like wanting me to bend over backwards to prove that I was intelligent enough to not be amused by some things and also to prove that I wasn't one of 'those girls' because I was moderate looking even though every last feature on my body wasn't perfect weren't worth my time.
 

Ene

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Hi, new to this thread or so I think. I may have responded once upon a time, but I want to add what I preceive doorslamming to be.

To me, it would be as fidelia said, a person cuts you out of their life without prior warning and without possible reconciliation. I have truly doorslammed only once in my life, and it was because I was being stalked and threatened.

However, I have had people doorslam me more than once. It is a horrible feeling that leaves you wondering what on earth is wrong with you and guessing where you went wrong. I am not a doorslammer. There have been times when I have quietly walked away but if the person called me or wrote me or came by to visit, I was fine with that and the only reason I walked away is because I thought that maybe my presence didn't matter to them. Sadly, in a couple of situations, I was right. I never locked the door, never slammed it, so to speak. I just closed it and left it ajar with a light on, but sadly the people never cared to even come up on the porch.
 

Eilonwy

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I still think we're not completely grasping the concept. Life threatening ≠ doorslam. It's reasonable to not have contact with people who threaten your life. What's not reasonable is the catastrophic thinking that leads to everyone being a potential threat to your life. A doorslam can be a doorslam with or without warning, I think. Relationships are allowed to end. You don't have to be friends with everyone you meet. I see so many extremes being brought up. So many, "what about this situation?" posts. [MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION] almost has it, but it still feels like there's something missing there, too. Like just a slight shift is needed and we'll see the 3D picture pop out. I'm not there yet, either. Not in a way I can explain.
 

Fidelia

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Well, I think for many INFJs, the doorslam ends up happening once the INFJ has given up on the relationship improving. It could be that they've concluded it takes more energy than the results it yields, it may be that they've lost faith in the other person's good intentions, could be that their visions are so different that they don't believe that aligning them is possible, could be that suddenly past patterns come into focus as having meaning that they had not previously recognized, they might feel they are not going in the same direction as life, or they just are hearing so much emotional noise that they need distance, they may feel like their voice is not being heard, no matter how they try to communicate. They also may feel publicly embarrassed or betrayed by someone they had trusted with the inmost parts of their being. Or they just use doorslamming to avoid uncomfortable feelings or because they are not willing to put in the work of communicating.

Perhaps that is the part that stings - the INFJ has made the decision without consultation and the other party feels that the guilt is being placed at their feet, that they are the one lacking. Not only that, but it is a decision that appears to be irrevocable, so their is not chance for resolution in any sense.

I think there are very few situations that call for a complete doorslam (danger, mental illness in some forms, extreme deception that has serious implications), but I do think there are cases where people need to reserve the right to draw appropriate boundaries, and take several steps backwards when those boundaries are not respected.

Any interaction is a two person venture, and that is one of the vulnerable things about it. One person alone cannot perpetuate a relationship if the other doesn't wish to. Often the issue isn't even about them, but about the other person's beliefs about themselves or the world around them, which affect how they relate to everyone. I have seen five of my parents siblings divorce, not because they wanted to, but because their partner did not want to keep the relationship going. While they may have had contributing factors in the demise of the relationship, ultimately, it ended because the other person walked away or insisted on impossible terms. Such is life.

All we can do then is try to carefully choose close friends or spouses that are equally committed, and who have developed communication skills and have a bit of practice demonstrating those skills over a period of time in various settings/relationships and then also endeavor to do the same ourselves. Even then, there is no guarantee that anyone will be treated in a fair way or that the person they are with won't change.

I guess what I am trying to differentiate is the right to choose who you pour your resources and trust into and under what conditions vs treating people close to you in a fair manner, particularly when you don't see eye to eye.
 

yeghor

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...Perhaps that is the part that stings - the INFJ has made the decision without consultation and the other party feels that the guilt is being placed at their feet, that they are the one lacking. Not only that, but it is a decision that appears to be irrevocable, so their is not chance for resolution in any sense...

Could this be making them feel powerless/weak/vulnerable? Would a confrontation that would allow them to say their piece relieve that feeling of guilt/vulnerability?
 

yeghor

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I still think we're not completely grasping the concept. Life threatening ≠ doorslam. It's reasonable to not have contact with people who threaten your life. What's not reasonable is the catastrophic thinking that leads to everyone being a potential threat to your life. A doorslam can be a doorslam with or without warning, I think. Relationships are allowed to end. You don't have to be friends with everyone you meet. I see so many extremes being brought up. So many, "what about this situation?" posts. [MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION] almost has it, but it still feels like there's something missing there, too. Like just a slight shift is needed and we'll see the 3D picture pop out. I'm not there yet, either. Not in a way I can explain.

What would make a "doorslam" different from a regular break-up then? Are all break-ups bilaterally decided/agreed upon?
 

yeghor

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup

A relationship breakup, often referred to simply as a breakup,[1] is the termination of an intimate relationship by any means other than death. The act is commonly termed "dumping [someone]" in slang when it is initiated by one partner.

In 1976, sociologist Diane Vaughan proposed an "uncoupling theory," where there exists a "turning point" in the dynamics of relationship breakup - 'a precise moment when they "knew the relationship was over," when "everything went dead inside"' - followed by a transition period in which one partner unconsciously knows the relationship is going to end, but holds on to it for an extended period, even for years.[9]

Vaughan considered that the process of breakup was asymmetrical for initiator and respondent: the former 'has begun mourning the loss of the relationship and has undertaken something tantamount to a rehearsal, mentally and, to varying degrees, experientially, of a life apart from the partner'.[10] The latter then has to play catch-up: 'to make their own transition out of the relationship, partners must redefine initiator and relationship negatively, legitimating the dissolution'.
 

Eilonwy

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I think it's not about defining doorslam, in a way. It's that the definition is still too much from the INFJ perspective--our defining limits and boundaries and justifications for doing it. We're still not seeing it from outside of ourselves. And that doesn't mean that the other person gets a pass. It's not all or nothing. It's not give, give, give and then give some more. We're too focused on our perceived side of it.
 

Fidelia

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I'm not really trying to define it from someone else's POV because mine is the only head I live in. I have access to some of the possible (perceived) motivations that I (or someone like me) might consider doing so and the reason I would offer those is in an attempt for the other parties that have come here to make sense of their situation. I can't right the wrongs that have happened between them and their significant other. Neither am I in the habit of doorslamming.

I already agree that INFJs tend to give away too much power and then resent or blame the people who they perceive retain it. I also think that we tend to value different things than some other types, so the places where we are rigid or where we are bendy will be different than where another type is rigid or bendy, and therefore neither will recognize the others`bending for what it is.

If someone is willing to explain the impact that a doorslam has on their life, it is food for thought for me to see whether or not I display those tendencies myself and maybe solicit the opinions of people I am closest to. I probably won`t discuss that publicly though, or at least not until it isn`t very personal to me and I feel like I`ve tested my ideas sufficiently to present them to someone.

I guess that`s what I mean by having a productive discussion - one where either I can offer missing information that they don`t have access to, which will help them resolve their problems or make sense of them, or else one where I am left with some new ideas to ponder or a picture of how the other person perceives something entirely differently that seems quite logical to me with my particular perspective.

I am interested in hearing the other parties`definitions of the doorslam to see if how it appears from outside the door is completely different, but I don`t think I can best get that information from people who are INFJ. That`s why I spent some time trying to determine whether Mane was up for an exchange of information, was looking for closure, wanted to vent, had an overview on the whole situation from the perspective of two years later, if he just wanted INFJs to see things from his perspective, or if the emotional tone of his content would make it difficult for me to pay attention to what he had to say. Depending on the answer, it would probably have changed whether or not I was interested in venturing further into the thread.

Maybe that`s the issue - we all mean different things by the word door slam, or are looking to get different things out of the discussion. I realize that my outcome based orientation is foreign and not all that useful to ENFPs and ENTPs especially. On the other hand, it is the only way I can determine whether or not an exchange is worth the investment it requires, especially if time or emotional resources are finite. I don`t expect someone to do it my way. That`s why I wanted to know what Mane was hoping for. In that sense, I could determine whether I had anything to offer the discussion, whether there may be something I could glean from it and not try to arm-wrestle it into being something that he never intended it to be once the discussion was underway. I`d liken it to looking at a help wanted description and determining based on my own qualifications, interest, knowledge about the employing organization and their values or goals whether or not I would like to apply, or whether I`d be better to save everyone`s time and check out something else instead.
 
S

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While I had no doubt in that thread that you and others had been hurt by INFJs in the past, it also seemed to me that we as a whole were being commanded to to answer for the crimes of someone else we didn't know who exhibited behaviour I didn't identify with.

i've addressed this earlier, but to clarify further: there is "trying to explain" (examine, "how does this work"*, ) and there is "trying to explain" (justify, "explain yourself young lady!"). for whatever reason, a lot of the INFJs seem to read the first as the later, or perhaps find the two hard to distinguish. either way, the result is that the general responses here people have gotten for talking about their problems with INFJs (and expressing a desire to get a better grasp of them) has mostly being composed of self righteous justifications and attempts at establishing ideological support for causing the same problems**. in doing so you essentially change the topic from "how it works" to "is it justified", and in turn whether the arguments and ideological framework placed to support it are justified, resulting in you feeling on trial, and the response of anyone coming with their own personal experiences is then to the argue against the justifications using those personal experiences, so you end up feeling on trial for other people's personal experiences.

..and round and round the merry go round.

*. i should mention that this touches on an Ne dom blindspot jung described extensively: the inability to distinguish between "how it works" and "how could you work it", what something is and what it can become/manipulated/changed into. i am not entirely convinced i can tell the difference).
**. to contrast, last few times anyone talked to me about ENTPs being assholes socially, blind in relationships or prideful idiots professionally, my reaction wasn't the concern about how it reflected on me or justifying myself or reframing their experiences to suit my ego, but to brainstormed strategies. its fun at times and enlightening in others.


However, I do make some decisions based on the other person's tone and approach (hence the questions earlier in the thread about tone and intent)
what exactly is the expectation here? a list of goals? how about this:


i really don't know how to J it up any further.

One difference I've seen in the approach by Ne is the need for immediacy and there's some green eggs and hamming that sometimes occurs that causes enough emotional noise that for me, the message gets lost.
huh, i've done that so many times i probably couldn't even count them :blush:
(quite literally with my son though :D )
 

yeghor

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I think it's not about defining doorslam, in a way. It's that the definition is still too much from the INFJ perspective--our defining limits and boundaries and justifications for doing it. We're still not seeing it from outside of ourselves. And that doesn't mean that the other person gets a pass. It's not all or nothing. It's not give, give, give and then give some more. We're too focused on our perceived side of it.

We need a model to work on...to simplify and pinpoint the issue...Something that all parties can agree on...smt that would serve as a template...otherwise we get drowned in details of the issue before even agreing on its basics/essentials...

BUMP:

"My perception of the word doorslam is when you cut someone out of your life entirely without warning and with no communication after."

So there are 2 parties...A and B...

Doorslam = B ends the relationship with A without any heads-up (prior dialogue?) and refuses A's prospective attempts to initiate contact...

So please in as brief and simple terms as possible:

a) What part(s) of this definition is causing the problem?

b) Modify the definition to represent the ideal/proper way to handle the relationship...

c) Under what conditions would the original "doorslam" approach be acceptable?
 
Last edited:

Eilonwy

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We need a model to work on...to simplify and pinpoint the issue...Something that all parties can agree on...smt that would serve as a template...otherwise we get drowned in details of the issue before even agreing on its basics/essentials...

I think we're drowning in the details just trying to define the thing.
 
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