[Fi] Fi 101

[Amargith]

Ok..welcome, I'm going to try and teach the basics of Fi here.

In other words, any questions when it comes to Fi, feel free to ask. I promise to answer them straight forward so you can analyze, understand or whatever it is you want to do with that information. No questions are off limits, including those that are considered 'touchy'.

Also, if you formulate a question in a F(i)-hostile way (without realizing it), I will reword it back to you, to a) confirm that that is what you're asking and b) teach how to word stuff properly without an emotionally negative ring to it. Yes, I'm aware this is arrogant, but hey, T's ask the same thing of us when debating logic shit. So it's only fair to teach you the rules.

I also encourage you to think twice about the formulation and what you're exactly asking before posting. Even if you're eager, passionate, annoyed, whatever it is because of the analysis process you're doing yourself, take a deep breathe and ask yourself how you can ask whatever is going on in that brain of yours in a constructive way.

I'd like to avoid mudslinging all together.

I appreciate the input of all my fellow NFPs of course, but I'm kinda wondering...maybe it's a good idea to make several of these threads? That way you get several perspectives as Fi is pretty individual, without it all getting muddled together? People can post the same question in several threads and see what answers it yields.

Alternatively, I'd love your input, but ask that you either apply the same techniques as me, which I listed above in dealing with ruffled feathers and not let it get you defensive, angry, annoyed, rolling your eyes, etc, something this topic just tends to provoke instantly. I'll have a tough time doing the same myself, but I feel it's the only way we can ever really get to the bottom of this. And I do feel we could benefit from having Fi dissected and viewed through the eyes of others as well.

If this doesn't go well, I might ask that I do the responding in this thread, to see if maybe having only 1 NFP answering helps to keep the chaos to a minimum.


Alright..let's see if anyone out there is still willing to go near the subject. Hit me

 

[Kalach]

What is love?

 

[JocktheMotie]

Baby don't hurt me.

 

[Memphis]

What is love?

Romantic love is a craving, a motivation.

Or so I've heard on TED!

 

[onemoretime]

Baby don't hurt me.

No more.

EDIT - yes, that's about as good of a 1,500th post as you could ask for

 

[Amargith]

Lol, hey boys..having fun?

What is love?

I'll need more specifics on what you're looking for

 

[JocktheMotie]

My main problem with functions in general is not really the functions themselves, but when people start attaching things every human can do to them. Like empathy, logic, imagination, or being environmentally aware. Reading these "Fi is" and "Te is" and the other threads has me shaking my head at some of the entries, simply because people start going from what these functions ARE to what people that use these functions tend to DO and end up thinking they're the same thing.

I think Fi is a cognitive process that judges all information it gains using personal, emotional, and value based principles as criteria for right vs wrong. These values are subjectively defined and unique to that individual in the sense that they were personally derived, however this doesn't mean these principles are exclusive to that person, nor Fi itself.

 

[proteanmix]

OK, here's my honest observation. Forgive me if it sounds hostile because that is not my intention.

When reviewing the "Fi is" thread this is the picture that struck me as most accurate about Fi:

And to be honest, this pic disturbed me at the same time I felt it to be the most accurate. Those emo pics I was like OK, alright.

It scared me because this is how out of touch with everyone Fi can be and I hardly see how that's empathetic. And yes, I want Fi users to admit this is something that people often encounter when dealing with Fi! It's not an isolated, unnatural, or rare occurence. My reality does not align with what Fi users are portraying on the forum about how helplessly empathetic they feel.

I have seen NFPs go into their happy bubble and be completely uncaring or oblivious to everyone else because they feel fine. That is the complete opposite of empathy. But I do see the positives in that because they do seem somewhat impervious to all the stress others feel for their own well-being (which I wish I had a greater ability for), but others who are looking for solidarity and that sense of shared experience and emotion find them out of touch, not an oasis of calm and strength. That does not make them particularly relatable or someone you feel you can talk to or depend on because their emotional state is so completely divergent from everyone else's and they don't even see it.

This is assessment is from my professional experience in working with NFPs in leadership positions, colleagues and past personal experience. I work in a very feeler-dominated organization because of the nature of the work. If my immediate work environment was more empathetic I'd be a much happier employee. I'm in the process of moving past this by adjusting my expectations to lessen my own personal disappointment.

The reason why I find this offensive is because in my professional life the people who do this are grown women (50+) and for the most part I would say are what you would call well-adjusted and "nice" people. I'm not going to give the easy out of saying they're immature or haven't learned how to use their Fi. This is not aberrant behavior from NFPs. I'm not saying it's the norm, but it's not unusual or something like Halley's Comet that passes by the earth every 75 years. It is quite typical in the same way that Fe can often be overbearing, coercive, and unthinkingly normative.

I wish people would stop claiming one set of traits (the positive) are more likely than the other. Fi users (or maybe I should confine this to NFPs) are just as likely to be oblivious to everyone (and in their own happy bubble as that picture suggests) as they are helplessly empathetic towards everyone. To claim otherwise is disingenuous and untruthful.

 

[Chloe]

OK, here's my honest observation. Forgive me if it sounds hostile because that is not my intention.

When reviewing the "Fi is" thread this is the picture that struck me as most accurate about Fi:

.

i agree with the picture and some things you said (didnt read the whole post carefully).

 

[Kalach]

I'll need more specifics on what you're looking for

Specifics?

You mean there isn't a universal definition? One man's love is another man's lunatic yellow smiley ball that can't go along to get along?


Here's hoping love isn't "empathy".

 

[onemoretime]

Specifics?

You mean there isn't a universal definition? One man's love is another man's lunatic yellow smiley ball that can't go along to get along?


What is love?

In the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make

 

[Kalach]

You're so heavy.

 

[onemoretime]

Because?

(There is a right answer)

 

[Udog]

I appreciate the input of all my fellow NFPs of course, but I'm kinda wondering...maybe it's a good idea to make several of these threads? That way you get several perspectives as Fi is pretty individual, without it all getting muddled together? People can post the same question in several threads and see what answers it yields.

Is this thread about Fi as described by Jung and used by MBTI, or how Fi reflects in you personally? Either one is okay with me, I just wish for some clarification, as I'll stay quiet if it's the latter.

My main problem with functions in general is not really the functions themselves, but when people start attaching things every human can do to them.

Yeah, this. It's like saying that only INTPs can be Enneagram 5, and all Enneagram 4s must be INFPs. Which isn't true at all. Things like character, maturity, empathy aren't covered by MBTI.

OK, here's my honest observation. Forgive me if it sounds hostile because that is not my intention.

You're evil; that's all there is to it.

When reviewing the "Fi is" thread this is the picture that struck me as most accurate about Fi:

This used to be my desktop picture - no kidding.

It scared me because this is how out of touch with everyone Fi can be and I hardly see how that's empathetic. And yes, I want Fi users to admit this is something that people often encounter when dealing with Fi! It's not an isolated, unnatural, or rare occurence. My reality does not align with what Fi users are portraying on the forum about how helplessly empathetic they feel.

Empathy in Fi tends to be on an individual basis. Some people resonate within me, hard, while others barely show up on my radar. When I do empathize with someone, I can feel a bit helpless about it.

In your picture, imagine what would happen if another yellow ball with a smile came into play. Can you see how we would empathize with that single ball? Can you see how the uniqueness of that connection would make it much more intense and focused? Us vs the world. This is why Fi doesn't like being called non-empathetic.

Fe has a tendency to notice all the people that Fi doesn't empathize with, and call us disingenuous. Hardly fair. Fi notices that Fe empathizes with everyone, and wonders how you can truly empathize with anyone. Which is pretty presumptuous on Fi's part.

 

[BlahBlahNounBlah]

You're so heavy.

Because?

(There is a right answer)

You're not my brother?

 

[onemoretime]

You're not my brother?

sorry, I was looking for "you never give me your money".

 

[Totenkindly]

Empathy in Fi tends to be on an individual basis. Some people resonate within me, hard, while others barely show up on my radar. When I do empathize with someone, I can feel a bit helpless about it.

Wow, I honestly had never really had that specific thought before.

My issue is that I resonate with everyone.
Even people I'm indifferent to.
Or people who have hurt me
Or people who I don't particularly much like.

My spirit really is that sort of "humanitarian" mindset, and I feel a bit helplessly trapped by it, just as you mention here.

But the Fe is not my major sense.
It comes through T understanding.
The Fe is the tail on the dog.

As soon as I get a T angle on someone's viewpoint, enough to see legitimacy in it, I get hit by the empathy thing. I can even WANT to shove it away, but I can't. If the viewpoint makes sense to me within its own boundaries, I start feeling empathy and wanting to connect and accommodate somehow.

In your picture, imagine what would happen if another yellow ball with a smile came into play. Can you see how we would empathize with that single ball? Can you see how the uniqueness of that connection would make it much more intense and focused? Us vs the world. This is why Fi doesn't like being called non-empathetic.

What a great visual.
And the pic still cracks me up -- it's awesome!

Fe has a tendency to notice all the people that Fi doesn't empathize with, and call us disingenuous. Hardly fair. Fi notices that Fe empathizes with everyone, and wonders how you can truly empathize with anyone.

I don't expect empathy to be 100%; but communication, art, and media would be entirely worthless and ineffective if people couldn't empathize with people they had not met before.

Obviously there are a lot of people out there who can create communications of some sort directed at people they don't know in a way that connects and/or shows accurate empathy.

Thus, 100% empathy is not a lot different than 90% empathy.

...But as I write this, I'm reminded of my stringent Ti sense which screams "Dammit, the last 10% DOES change everything!!"

 

[sculpting]

The reason why I find this offensive is because in my professional life the people who do this are grown women (50+) and for the most part I would say are what you would call well-adjusted and "nice" people. I'm not going to give the easy out of saying they're immature or haven't learned how to use their Fi. This is not aberrant behavior from NFPs. I'm not saying it's the norm, but it's not unusual or something like Halley's Comet that passes by the earth every 75 years. It is quite typical in the same way that Fe can often be overbearing, coercive, and unthinkingly normative.

oh, hey I want to be that happy ball!

I think I am breaking Amar's rules about only one nfp on the thread but I'd suggest what you IS perfectly normal.

pain, block,
pain, block,
pain, block

so pretty soon you only have to empathasize with those who you choose to connect to. I just called that out on the other thread about my IXTJs. Screw the rest of the world. I cant keep bearing your pain. Id say you are seeing mature Fi users at work.

AWESOME! Proteanmix you make the most useful external observations.

 

[Virtual ghost]

OK, here's my honest observation. Forgive me if it sounds hostile because that is not my intention.

When reviewing the "Fi is" thread this is the picture that struck me as most accurate about Fi:

And to be honest, this pic disturbed me at the same time I felt it to be the most accurate. Those emo pics I was like OK, alright.

It scared me because this is how out of touch with everyone Fi can be and I hardly see how that's empathetic. And yes, I want Fi users to admit this is something that people often encounter when dealing with Fi! It's not an isolated, unnatural, or rare occurence. My reality does not align with what Fi users are portraying on the forum about how helplessly empathetic they feel.

To be honest I find this picture to be funny.

My Fi is nothing special but in comparison with my Fe it is multiple times stronger. What means that I am one of people that have life phylosophy quite similar to what that picture is saying.

But to be even more honest I trully don't see a logical reason why I should feel bad if everyone around me are feeling that way. Basicly this is probably the main reason why people think of me as a sociopath in real life.


On the other hand I am also the last one that will freak out about things. So basicly I am the last defence of "the collective". Which is simply because I am not really a part of it.
Of course this is mostly because of my NTness but Fi really helps filling in the gaps and it makes sure that I have some basic principles in life.


The FP Fi can be problematic since it guides them but that that does not mean that all Fi is liike that. Personally I find FP too be generally (too) empathic. It is just that their empathy is not I will say concrete.


So when you sum it all it is good that some people are unempathic. Since otherwise empathy would damadge their ability to operate if environment becomes generally depressed. Especially since the best way to remove depression is by solving the problem that caused it in the first place.


However for that you will need someone with a cool head. What you can't get if the person has too much Fe (or for that matter Fi).
On the other hand on every one that is detached as much as I am there is a quite a number of fairly empathic/simpathic and friendly people. So I am not sure that this is such a big deal in the end.


Just a thought.

 

[Bubbleboy]

Ok..welcome, I'm going to try and teach the basics of Fi here.

I don't really get it at all. Is coddling over someone and making sure he's comfortable Fe while assuming he's capable of making himself comfortable Fi?

Also I want to express gratitude for this thread. It's refreshing with posts that might actually teach something.