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[NF] Can NFs be ruthless, cruel or evil?

Ace_

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Some of the adjectives from the profiles, describing NFs are: compassionate, nurturing, insightful and encouraging, altruistic, inspiring, warmly affectionate and affirming, empathetic, caring...

Now I'm thinking how can such a person be evil? I think it's not possible.

Sure, they can hurt people unintentionally due to their immaturity or stupidity but they just can't be heartless bastards because it goes against everything they believe in.

A good friend of mine is an ENFP and I'm amazed at his levels of empathy. There was this youtube video of a shark with retarded teeth and it was hilarious so I showed it to him. This one: YouTube - Shark with funny teeth

And guess what? He didn't like it. He said he felt bad for the shark. lol I really didn't believe him and I asked if he was fucking kidding me? He insisted that he was telling the truth and I believed him because he really doesn't lie to me. Even if he did lie I could tell because we have this weird connection.

Ok, I'm thinking this is gonna be a very short topic because everyone's gonna agree with me, but I'm going to post it anyway. There will probably be some INTP who will disagree with me just for the fun of it.
 

Atomic Fiend

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Inadvertently they can probably be the most cruel. Because when they're doing it, they probably honest to god believe they're doing the right thing, for whatever deluded reason they have.
 

fill

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Yes,
just like everyone else. :D
 

antireconciler

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I like what SH said.

Anyone can be made to feel backed into a corner.
 

mrgorbachev

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No, they can be mean and cruel. I don't know if anyone, with notable and obvious exceptions, is really "evil" but there is no reason NF's in pursuit of some ideal world couldn't wind up being evil to whatever extent one can be in the daily sense of the word.

It's just that people mostly wind up being ruthless in pursuit of some object-oriented, self-centered goal, which are goals that are rare in the NF (or at least in my own, not to make myself sound like some übermensch) worldview-- which is the same reason that NF CEOs and big wigs are relatively rare.
 

sciski

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Inadvertently they can probably be the most cruel. Because when they're doing it, they probably honest to god believe they're doing the right thing, for whatever deluded reason they have.

^Yup, that last part is the key to NF evilness.


Evil is kind of in the eye of the beholder--what one regards as evil may be perfectly acceptable/justifiable behaviour to another. As long as the NF has justified their actions to themselves, it's entirely possible that they could commit acts that are viewed as 'evil' by another.

Ace_ said:
Sure, they can hurt people unintentionally due to their immaturity or stupidity but they just can't be heartless bastards because it goes against everything they believe in.

Only if they believe that being a heartless bastard = bad. If their world view = "It's kind to be cruel in a tough world", you can get a pretty hard-lining NF. I think to the NF though, their intentions must be congruent with their own beliefs, even if the beliefs themselves are deluded (refer to the SH quote).
 

cafe

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All that emotional intensity can go toward negative emotions almost as easily as it can go toward positive ones and we can find a way to justify it because we have flexible minds like that.
 

BlueSprout

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Yes. The adjectives used in many of the descriptions are based on mostly healthy NFs at their best. Many are also in part supposed to help people assess their own type: why would I want to identify myself with Charles Manson or corrupted idealism in general?

Of course not! All hearts and flowers here!

Except Elaur is not and has never been capable of such vile and depraved things. :newwink:
 

OrangeAppled

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Dejected idealism is ugly. It's something like, "The world is horrible. There is no hope. Destroy it for its own good!". Somehow, what is evil becomes a solution, or a moral retribution.
 

Unkindloving

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As long as i exist there will be heaps of heartlessness and evil in the NF realm!. ;)

I'm not sure about others, but if i throw out positives or negatives is completely dependent on who it is toward and what they mean to me/their level of respect for me. Experiences have turned me more realistic and cynical over the years as there isn't a good way to be nurturing/inspiring/compassionate to everyone without suffering damage along the way.

I laugh when people fall. I love twisted, sick humor. I think other people can feed the starving Ethiopians, but i personally don't give a damn. I'll verbally go for the jugular of someone who disrespects me.
In the same token, if i care about someone then they are a top priority. I would do anything for my friends, encourage them in any way. I'll console and help if they need it. I'll love them with my whole heart and accept them.
Basically, it's like i'm terribly difficult for people to accept, but the ones that do accept me will reap the benefits i have to offer.
 

Wonkavision

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As long as i exist there will be heaps of heartlessness and evil in the NF realm!. ;)

I'm not sure about others, but if i throw out positives or negatives is completely dependent on who it is toward and what they mean to me/their level of respect for me. Experiences have turned me more realistic and cynical over the years as there isn't a good way to be nurturing/inspiring/compassionate to everyone without suffering damage along the way.

I laugh when people fall. I love twisted, sick humor. I think other people can feed the starving Ethiopians, but i personally don't give a damn. I'll verbally go for the jugular of someone who disrespects me.
In the same token, if i care about someone then they are a top priority. I would do anything for my friends, encourage them in any way. I'll console and help if they need it. I'll love them with my whole heart and accept them.
Basically, it's like i'm terribly difficult for people to accept, but the ones that do accept me will reap the benefits i have to offer.

You took the words right out of my mouth. :yes:
 

BlueSprout

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As long as i exist there will be heaps of heartlessness and evil in the NF realm!. ;)

I'm not sure about others, but if i throw out positives or negatives is completely dependent on who it is toward and what they mean to me/their level of respect for me. Experiences have turned me more realistic and cynical over the years as there isn't a good way to be nurturing/inspiring/compassionate to everyone without suffering damage along the way.

I laugh when people fall. I love twisted, sick humor. I think other people can feed the starving Ethiopians, but i personally don't give a damn. I'll verbally go for the jugular of someone who disrespects me.
In the same token, if i care about someone then they are a top priority. I would do anything for my friends, encourage them in any way. I'll console and help if they need it. I'll love them with my whole heart and accept them.
Basically, it's like i'm terribly difficult for people to accept, but the ones that do accept me will reap the benefits i have to offer.

This is evil and heartless? You may not be a saint, but I hardly think you qualify based on this description. Many people don't care too much about the suffering of mankind/total strangers in general but have perfectly functional and healthy relationships with the people close to them. If that was evil and heartless, hardly anyone I know would qualify as a decent human being.
 

Ace_

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Only if they believe that being a heartless bastard = bad. If their world view = "It's kind to be cruel in a tough world", you can get a pretty hard-lining NF. I think to the NF though, their intentions must be congruent with their own beliefs, even if the beliefs themselves are deluded (refer to the SH quote).

All that emotional intensity can go toward negative emotions almost as easily as it can go toward positive ones and we can find a way to justify it because we have flexible minds like that.

Yeah but empathy is hard-wired into the brain. It's not like you decide you want to be an NF. You are born an NF. Read this article: Empathy is hard-wired into the mind, study finds - Los Angeles Times

The NFs I've known said that they feel huge discomfort when punishing someone or when someone is being embarrassed or feeling bad. They are much more apt at simulating the pain of others on their own flesh than thinkers.

Every NF I've ever met has had a very developed capacity for sympathy and was hypersensitive to people's feelings and needs. Their brains are just genetically predisposed to do that. If you don't think of people's feelings first, then try doing the mbti test again, and this time be sincere when answering questions because you're probably a thinker under a mask of a feeler.

So my point is that it's genetically hard wired into the brain. They can choose to believe that being a bastard is good but when they start doing it in practice it's going to hurt them.
 

lua

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I have proof that it's possible in the form of an ENFP 15-year-old girl (my baby sister).
 

Unkindloving

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You took the words right out of my mouth. :yes:
:) Glad.

This is evil and heartless? You may not be a saint, but I hardly think you qualify based on this description. Many people don't care too much about the suffering of mankind/total strangers in general but have perfectly functional and healthy relationships with the people close to them. If that was evil and heartless, hardly anyone I know would qualify as a decent human being.

There's a lot more, but i'm sure it would be a long and detailed list and i didn't want to sound too horrible :blush:. Though I have also been friends with the sort of people who viewed that tidbit of a description as more than enough to be considered heartless and evil. Needless to say i don't befriend those people much anymore!
 

Biaxident

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Can NFs be ruthless, cruel or evil?

Ruthless? Yep, in a heartbeat if it's required.

Cruel? Only in extreme circumstances.

Evil? Not deliberately. I'm not deluded enough to believe my way is the only, correct, way of doing something. Not since I was 12 years old, anyway.
 

HollyGolightly

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NFs can be ruthless and cruel. A fellow INFJ almost ruined my life...
And some can even be evil. I know this from experience and yes, the people in question were typed correctly. They were just unhealthy xNFxs.
No two people of the same type are the same. You get good and bad in every type..so NFs can be evil, but so can SJs, SPs and NTs.

I personally think NF cruelty can be the most damaging. It's unexpected, most NFs make you feel safe and secure. They make you feel that you can trust that they wouldn't hurt you because they usually come across as very empathetic. Then bam...
 

sciski

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The NFs I've known said that they feel huge discomfort when punishing someone or when someone is being embarrassed or feeling bad. They are much more apt at simulating the pain of others on their own flesh than thinkers.

You know very soft, sweet NFs. :)

So my point is that it's genetically hard wired into the brain. They can choose to believe that being a bastard is good but when they start doing it in practice it's going to hurt them.

Yes, but if the hurt caused is greatly outweighed by all the positives that result from punishment, then I'm pretty sure some NFs can deal with it. Some can't... you appear to know the ones that can't. Lucky you. :)

Yeah but empathy is hard-wired into the brain. It's not like you decide you want to be an NF. You are born an NF. Read this article: Empathy is hard-wired into the mind, study finds - Los Angeles Times

Is it possible for you to turn off or ignore your logical analysis sometimes? If it is, then it's possible for NFs to turn off or ignore their empathy when it suits them.

Hard-wiring is a bit of a moot point. It may be a fact that the NF will end up feeling guilty over the results of their actions, but there are ways to overcome this guilt--by justifying it (it was for the greater good!), removing themselves from the consequences of their actions (what I don't see, I don't know about), etc.

It's an elaborate coping mechanism, and yes, it does derive from a jilted sense of empathy. But that empathy does not stop an NF from committing cruel acts--it merely makes the NF suffer consequences if they haven't taken steps to cope with the consequences.
 
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