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[NF] Emotional abuse and NFs

SilkRoad

Lay the coin on my tongue
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I’m guessing there may be a thread out there which is similar or relevant, but haven’t found it yet, so if there is, please feel free to supply a link or whatever :)

I’m getting the impression from my experience, and from those of other NF friends, that NFs may be particularly vulnerable to emotional abuse. By that I mean not only that emotional abuse may be particularly damaging to them, but that they may be more likely to find themselves in such situations or to stay in them even against their better judgment.

I had a situation with someone recently where both of us made a mistake, but it kind of had a good outcome, but placed the other person in a very awkward situation (hard to explain). The other person took it out on me, blamed the situation on me, didn’t acknowledge that the outcome might actually have been for the best…etc. I think this was partly due to shame and guilt on their part and a reluctance to say sorry, admit the blame on their own side, etc. (I promise you that I didn’t try to blame it all on them – though I could have gone down that road – and I acknowledged AND apologised for my own mistakes. Partly hoping they would respond in kind, but they didn’t.)

When I told a couple of other friends about the situation, they both used expressions like “abuse” or “abusive” to describe this person’s behaviour. Not that this person was constantly doing things like this to me, but there is still a pattern of them carelessly hurting me, and me putting up with it. And I can think of a past relationship where I would not hesitate to say the guy was being emotionally abusive. He would tell me I wasn’t making him as happy as his ex-girlfriend…then tell me how much he loved me…then tell me about the ex-girlfriend…make me feel like it was my fault I wasn’t making him happy enough…then tell me again how much he loved me…etc…And I was putting up with it because I loved him and because I thought if I could just try harder, things would work out and we could get off the roller coaster. Only later did I realise how wrong this situation had been, and how unaware of my feelings he was and how totally focused on his own.

One of the friends, another INFJ, who used the “abuse” word when she described my recent situation said that she has also found that she attracts people who can be abusive. She thought it was maybe because we can be too “nice” and try to get along with everyone. I don’t think most of these people are being malicious. It may be some dysfunction in their personality/backgrounds, or just carelessness, but just because it isn’t malicious doesn’t mean it can’t be abusive.

Now that I am starting to see a pattern in my life, I would appreciate suggestions for breaking away from it/avoiding it in future…without completely ceasing to trust anyone at all…surely there is a middle ground? I am thinking I need to trust people more slowly (which often I do, with people in general, but if people are particularly charming or friendly, or they really open up to me about themselves and their feelings, sometimes I foolishly dive right in trust-wise), pay more attention to their actions than their words, etc.

Anyone have thoughts, stories they would like to share, etc?
 

Valiant

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Well... Unhealthy NFs are also very prone to emotional abuse.
I had a thing for badass ENFx chicks for a couple of years when I was younger.
Never doing it again :D Pleasant, knowledgeable, monogamous, well-mannered and kind NFs are good for the soul.

Away with the street-smart, fickle, spineless, ignorant and polygamous NFs :)
Witty is OK, but thuggish is bad stuff.
Oh, and the whole black metal/goth thing is just awful.
 

SilkRoad

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Well... Unhealthy NFs are also very prone to emotional abuse.

I think being emotionally abusive could stem either from being very aware of other people's emotions and how to manipulate them, and being cruel/unscrupulous, OR being very oblivious to others' feelings and not bothering to take them into account, while selfishly focusing on your own. So yeah, I'm sure you're right about unhealthy NFs.
 

Amargith

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Actually, I think it's more due to a loss of faith in the world. "They hurt me, it seems to be the thign to do, so if you cannot beat them, join them!"

The moment an NF loses faith in the world, feels surrounded and overwhelmed by the pain out there, they tend to wall themselves in and/or lash out to to anyone who comes near, I think.
 
S

Sniffles

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Well growing up, I had to face a constant bombardment of emotional abuse from the people around me. Not a fun experience I tell you. :cry:
 

Airwalker

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Actually, I think it's more due to a loss of faith in the world. "They hurt me, it seems to be the thing to do, so if you cannot beat them, join them!"

The moment an NF loses faith in the world, feels surrounded and overwhelmed by the pain out there, they tend to wall themselves in and/or lash out to to anyone who comes near, I think.

It's not exactly lashing out. It more like: "..you will feel my wrath if you fuck with me.."
 

Amargith

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Ahh but what constitutes 'fucking with someone' and how easily is it misperceived? ;)
If you have no more faith in people around you, it becomes easy to be paranoid of everything they do.


In fact, I think this applies to most people. NFs just show it in a more emo way. NTs might do it with cold determination and anger.
 

SilkRoad

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Ahh but what constitutes 'fucking with someone' and how easily is it misperceived? ;)
If you have no more faith in people around you, it becomes easy to be paranoid of everything they do.

Ok this is all very interesting but I really wanted to know about NFs being emotionally abused, not emotionally abusing. ;)
 

BlueSprout

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Well... Unhealthy NFs are also very prone to emotional abuse.
I had a thing for badass ENFx chicks for a couple of years when I was younger.
Never doing it again Pleasant, knowledgeable, monogamous, well-mannered and kind NFs are good for the soul.

Away with the street-smart, fickle, spineless, ignorant and polygamous NFs
Witty is OK, but thuggish is bad stuff.
Oh, and the whole black metal/goth thing is just awful.

I think being emotionally abusive could stem either from being very aware of other people's emotions and how to manipulate them, and being cruel/unscrupulous, OR being very oblivious to others' feelings and not bothering to take them into account, while selfishly focusing on your own. So yeah, I'm sure you're right about unhealthy NFs.

Actually, I think it's more due to a loss of faith in the world. "They hurt me, it seems to be the thign to do, so if you cannot beat them, join them!"

The moment an NF loses faith in the world, feels surrounded and overwhelmed by the pain out there, they tend to wall themselves in and/or lash out to to anyone who comes near, I think.

+1000

Maybe because NFs at their core are so intimately connected with emotion/feeling, it has the potential to be both the most damaging venom to their inner selves and the most powerful weapon they can wield against others. Cue negative feedback loop.
 

Amargith

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Agreed, SilkRoad. Let's get back on topic ;)
 

GirlFromMars

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Amargith speaks the truth. I will admit to getting like that sometimes. I'm getting better as I get older though. When I was younger esp. I would lash out A LOT, because I've been hurt a lot. It's like "f**k it, I'm sick of getting hurt, being nice doesn't get you anywhere" and you lash out at people becuase you expect them to hurt you. That's my experience anyways.

Edit: Also, I've been told by a few people that when I am nasty (more so when I was a teenager!), I find the right thing to say that will really hurt someone, like I just know that one thing. And I gotta admit that's true. :| This post makes me sound horrible - it was more like that when I was going through my angsty teenage years (I am only 21 now mind)

Also, I have been abused myself.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I'm not sure if it is a type-related issue or not, but this is my hypothesis about how some NFs might get stuck in such a dynamic. Unhealthy emotional interaction can have pitfalls for people who are invested in resolving emotional contexts and have a tendency to be more abstract and analytical about it. People who are especially pragmatic in their relationships are less likely to put up with destructive dynamics. The problem with looking at someone from the inside and in a more holistic manner is that all of their dysfunction and emotional baggage can often be understood within the context of their life. When you understand a detrimental dynamic they had with their mother as a child, it is easy to feel a kind of responsibility to undo that suffering while forgetting that once some of these things are imprinted on a person, they do remain throughout a lifetime. Having a deeper understanding of why someone is the way they are can increase a sense of tolerance. I suppose in viewing the entire picture this can also reveal the kinds of boundaries they need to recover. The process of creating boundaries can take longer if the person is bothering to go into an exhaustive analysis of the whole thing. In that way the NF can arrive at the same conclusion as someone viewing the present external dynamic, but it can take longer because they will first examine the whole history of it.
 

SilkRoad

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I'm not sure if it is a type-related issue or not, but this is my hypothesis about how some NFs might get stuck in such a dynamic. Unhealthy emotional interaction can have pitfalls for people who are invested in resolving emotional contexts and have a tendency to be more abstract and analytical about it. People who are especially pragmatic in their relationships are less likely to put up with destructive dynamics. The problem with looking at someone from the inside and in a more holistic manner is that all of their dysfunction and emotional baggage can often be understood within the context of their life. When you understand a detrimental dynamic they had with their mother as a child, it is easy to feel a kind of responsibility to undo that suffering while forgetting that once some of these things are imprinted on a person, they do remain throughout a lifetime. Having a deeper understanding of why someone is the way they are can increase a sense of tolerance. I suppose in viewing the entire picture this can also reveal the kinds of boundaries they need to recover. The process of creating boundaries can take longer if the person is bothering to go into an exhaustive analysis of the whole thing. In that way the NF can arrive at the same conclusion as someone viewing the present external dynamic, but it can take longer because they will first examine the whole history of it.

So in an undoubtedly over-simplified nutshell, you think it has something to do with making such a comprehensive effort to understand the person and how they became emotionally abusive, that you may give them the benefit of the doubt for too long? That is an interesting way to look at it which I hadn't quite thought of before...
 

Biaxident

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So in an undoubtedly over-simplified nutshell, you think it has something to do with making such a comprehensive effort to understand the person and how they became emotionally abusive, that you may give them the benefit of the doubt for too long? That is an interesting way to look at it which I hadn't quite thought of before...


Been there, done that.

Not any f'in more.
 

GirlFromMars

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So in an undoubtedly over-simplified nutshell, you think it has something to do with making such a comprehensive effort to understand the person and how they became emotionally abusive, that you may give them the benefit of the doubt for too long? That is an interesting way to look at it which I hadn't quite thought of before...

Yep. I think that's spot on.

My mum is an INFJ and has been abused again and again, esp. emotionally. It's because she wants to understand them, and indeed gives the benefit of the doubt. I totally get why she'd do that. i always want to understand people and why they got like they are too.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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So in an undoubtedly over-simplified nutshell, you think it has something to do with making such a comprehensive effort to understand the person and how they became emotionally abusive, that you may give them the benefit of the doubt for too long? That is an interesting way to look at it which I hadn't quite thought of before...
I appreciate you putting it a bit more succinctly. It has to do with giving them the benefit of the doubt too long because you can see more fully *why* they abuse (typically because during vulnerable stages of life they were abused). It makes it harder to get fed up and punish the person because you can be both angry for being hurt, but also feel sorry for the hurt they faced. I try to push back against that, but have seen NFs close to me focus on the "hurt child" aspect of their emotional abuser. I think sometimes it is better to look at the surface pragmatically, but that isn't always so easy. I try to function on two levels, one where my mind continues to analyze and create a framework for the person's behavior, and another level where I determine what is the likely best course of action based on the current situation. It can take deliberate practice to not get lost in the empathy of it.

Edit: An emotionally abusive person is a deeply tragic scenario. The process of creating an abuser involves violating a human being during their innocence and vulnerability until there is nothing left of that, they catch the disease of cruelty, and then become guilty of imposing it on another. They keep reliving that violation and powerlessness and overcompensate by controlling and oppressing. There may be some element of choice, but cause and effect account for much of what shapes a person.
 
S

Sniffles

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I appreciate you putting it a bit more succinctly. It has to do with giving them the benefit of the doubt too long because you can see more fully *why* they abuse (typically because during vulnerable stages of life they were abused). It makes it harder to get fed up and punish the person because you can be both angry for being hurt, but also feel sorry for the hurt they faced.
Yes I can't agree more with this. I have a bad habit of falling into tendency, and it certainly got my fingers burned a few times because of it.
 

ajblaise

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What about NFs being able to recognize subtle warning signs and emotional abuse before other people and types? Couldn't that make them less vulnerable in a way, or do other factors override that?
 

Bamboo

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I knew an INFP in a clearly emotionally abusive relationship. She couldn't leave the guy, even though, as she was apt to frequently point out, he treated her like crap.

It made very very very little sense to me. She seemed to want to rely on me to get her out of the relationship, and I did make an effort. I gathered information on emotional abuse, and tried to follow it. The hardest part was just listening without offering advice or trying to fix anything - the 'experts' explained that the emotionally abused really need someone to just listen to them.

I ended up being there at weird hours of the night where she'd show up outside my house crying her eyes out, and she'd tell me the latest story.

The 'relationship' got weird and I became resentful that she did so little to try and help herself. He broke up with her, and at that point I stopped being involved. I'm pretty sure she ended up running back to him, but I never looked into it.



On a related note, she always rationalized staying with him by saying "he has glimmers of being a nice guy" and mentioning that he holds her really sweetly ... when he is asleep.

So 95% of the time, he's a total jerk, but when he's not even concious, he's a really nice guy. Which justifies sticking with a guy that stalks you and gets drunk and calls you a "fucking whore"...in front of his entire family.

Right.
 

proteanmix

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What about NFs being able to recognize subtle warning signs and emotional abuse before other people and types? Couldn't that make them less vulnerable in a way, or do other factors override that?

This is what I was thinking when I finished the OP.

I think I've been fortunate enough to avoid potentially negative people because of this. The NFs I know are more likely to do this than the other way around.
 
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