[NF] Emotional abuse and NFs

[SillySapienne]

Actually, I think it's more due to a loss of faith in the world. "They hurt me, it seems to be the thign to do, so if you cannot beat them, join them!"

The moment an NF loses faith in the world, feels surrounded and overwhelmed by the pain out there, they tend to wall themselves in and/or lash out to to anyone who comes near, I think.

I was totally with you till the last part, ew, any NF who becomes abusive to anybody else should be stripped of his or her NF badge, for realz.

The worst I can see them "committing" after having lost their faith in the so-called world is their deliberately shutting out others, preferring to sink in their pain alone.

Also, ALL ABUSE transfers as emotional abuse for an NF, duh, right... right?!!?!

How can one, especially an NF, not take abuse as an assault against one's emotions, (amongst other things).

 

[Synarch]

I would flip this question on its head and say that NF's are more likely to classify an experience as abusive.

For one thing, "abusive" is a term of evaluation. If someone were to be violent with me, I would say they were violent with me. I would not necessarily feel it important to define as abuse.

Sensors may rely less on semantic judgments of life's contents and NT's may similarly view experiences from a more impersonal light.

Similarly, I think NF's are more likely than other types to be sensitive to things like verbal abuse relative to NT's perhaps.

 

[SillySapienne]

No.

Do you know how NOT EASY IT IS, for one to come out of the closet so as to both admit to themselves and express to others that they have been in fact abused?!!?

In some areas it might be fuzzy, but in most it is not, when someone close to you perpetually finds ways to put you down and keep you there, you are being abused, period.

Since many people who frequent fora are kinda effed in the head, it wouldn't shock or surprise me to find out that many of us, or a disproportionately high percentage of us have in fact been, or are being, abused.

 

[Synarch]

No.

Do you know how NOT EASY IT IS, for one to come out of the closet so as to both admit to themselves and express to others that they have been in fact abused?!!?

In some areas it might be fuzzy, but in most it is not, when someone close to you perpetually finds ways to put you down and keep you there, you are being abused, period.

Since many people who frequent fora are kinda effed in the head, it wouldn't shock or surprise me to find out that many of us, or a disproportionately high percentage of us have in fact been, or are being, abused.

Why is it important to name things?

For me personally, I would say that I experienced things growing up that other people would call abuse, but I don't see the point in defining the experience. I wouldn't want to make it bigger than it is, as big as it is. I don't see what it benefits me to define and create a story around it. To fetishize the suffering.

Even in my adult life I have been in relationships where I let myself be hurt or even where I hurt myself. Or, even where I hurt others, but again why is it important to name and define?

 

[sciski]

I would appreciate suggestions for breaking away from it/avoiding it in future…without completely ceasing to trust anyone at all…surely there is a middle ground?

You may have answered your own question with your post.

Your friends wisely pointed out the negative nature of the relationship.

So keep talking to your friends about what's going on in your life. They will provide a good outsider's perspective and also the support (or slap, as mentioned in later replies) that you may need.

 

[SillySapienne]

Why is it important to name things?

For me personally, I would say that I experienced things growing up that other people would call abuse, but I don't see the point in defining the experience. I wouldn't want to make it bigger than it is, as big as it is. I don't see what it benefits me to define and create a story around it. To fetishize the suffering.

Even in my adult life I have been in relationships where I let myself be hurt or even where I hurt myself. Or, even where I hurt others, but again why is it important to name and define?

To come to the realization that a parent of yours was or is a crazy unhealthy person who hurt you repeatedly, i.e. abused you, because they were the ones with problems, not you, is a very productive realization.

Why?

Because it can produce great art, the best kind of hurt, oodles and oodles of Empathy, and a resilient streak within that whispers or even screams that you won't become another statistic, that you can't and won't let that very special fucked up loved one ever win.

The victim complex is a hard one to shake, though. So I can understand your resistance to the term/concept.

 

[Synarch]

To come to the realization that a parent of yours was or is a crazy unhealthy person who hurt you repeatedly, i.e. abused you, because they were the ones with problems, not you, is a very productive realization.

Yeah, I suppose. But, I guess I'm skeptical of people's ability to overturn such deeply held as feeling somehow to blame. I don't think we can change who we are. We can only change what we know and I don't know where the line is. So many things and experiences are fundamental that it seems nearly impossible to untangle. I think it's better to (in someone else's words) "strive for health".

 

[InvisibleJim]

Synarch, I understand what you are saying in the NT Way;

Some people get lemons and complain they didn't get oranges
Some people get lemons and make lemonade.

I think INTs do have a tendency to dislike Group A; they are usually not good for us as our emotion chips spend most of their time stuck on receive.

We are impressed by people who overcome unfortunate circumstances; although we don't like to see people exclaim that what they have experienced is truely exceptional as usually we don't see this as the case.

 

[Afkan]

I’m getting the impression from my experience, and from those of other NF friends, that NFs may be particularly vulnerable to emotional abuse. By that I mean not only that emotional abuse may be particularly damaging to them, but that they may be more likely to find themselves in such situations or to stay in them even against their better judgment.

Yes, yes, and YES.

3 examples.

A close friend I have, NF, stayed in a friendship with a man she was in love with who did not return the love for years...She remained devoted and faithful to him. He told her he could never love again. Yet after several years of her supporting him, spending a great deal of time and energy on him, He married another woman, not long after he met her. The woman he chose to marry was more than a decade older than my dear NF friend. This was all insulting on so many levels, and literally broke her heart. The worst part is that my NF friend told me that the man had said terribly rude, abusive things like, we should get you pregnant by me. In a lab, by in vitro... when in convos ppl mentioned how nurturing and loving and caring my friend was.

A family member, NF, an older generation than mine, pretty much every single romantic relationship she was ever in was emotionally abusive. Some physical too. Terrible stuff, and yes, I hate to say it but I think she somehow attracted that...I've always tried to tell her, you don't deserve to be treated that way, but she seems to think she did deserve it. She also was easily seduced into relationships with men who were "bad" men and she wanted to love them all better. By bad, I mean drug dealers mostly... and all that goes w/that.

An NF who has just recently come into my acquaintance in the past months told me she was involved in a relationship with a heroine addict who subsequently stalked her after she called it off for 6 months. She has a restraining order.

Me
I've felt myself slipping into emotionally abusive relationships on several occasions, but have fought like hell...I swear the only way I am in a healthy relationship now is bc I saw the importance and put it as a priority above all else.

Why (imo)
We as NFs want to see the best in everyone. We want to believe that the world is full of hurt people who, if just loved the right way, would be whole... we wanna change the world, with love. This doesn't have to be done via romantic relationships of course... sheesh, if I were to catalogue to you those emotionally abusive relationships of NFs that were of a nature anything but love/sex/romance, I would be writing for literally years.

People pick up on this. They take advantage of it. If you want to avoid this sort of thing, you have to really be ahead of the game...

Avoiding emotional abuse
Additionally, I've found that the right kind of passionate relationship, the healthy one, when the other individual is healthy and you are too... that passion feels very different than an unhealthy relationship in which the other person NEEDS you emotionally. People NEEDING us emotionally feels like the best thing in the world...until the shit hits the fan.

I've found I had to be less Idealistic. Not less of an Idealist, not lose my identity... just less idealistic.

 

[Afkan]

Similarly, I think NF's are more likely than other types to be sensitive to things like verbal abuse relative to NT's perhaps.

Just a little FYI... According to David Keirsey NTs are more sensitive to a certain kind of abuse more than any other type grouping. Its physical abuse. Feel free to agree or disagree... the facts aren't important here. The point is that everyone has weaknesses, vulnerabilities... every type tends to have some more than others. And he is an NT himself.

NTs have plenty of Achilles heels. The saddest part is, they are so good at hiding them when someone finds one (intentionally or otherwise) it usually initiates a huge inflicting drama inside them...bc they haven't built up the strengths required to deal.

Not like NFs. NFs may be prone to emotional abuse, but we are so friggin' resilient.

 

[Amargith]

I was totally with you till the last part, ew, any NF who becomes abusive to anybody else should be stripped of his or her NF badge, for realz.

The worst I can see them "committing" after having lost their faith in the so-called world is their deliberately shutting out others, preferring to sink in their pain alone.

Also, ALL ABUSE transfers as emotional abuse for an NF, duh, right... right?!!?!

How can one, especially an NF, not take abuse as an assault against one's emotions, (amongst other things).

Oh I fully agree, but this only happens when you're aching so much all over that you no longer have control over it. The moment you're in so much emotional agony, that you just accidentily end up hurting someone in the process. This is why I'll try to isolate myself when that happens. And then you have those that are too scarred and scared to go back to the previous state. I personally cannot do that. I can't stay in that paranoid state. But I think depending on the person and the kind of abuse they suffered...being jaded and paranoid can be a shield. And you'll lash out at people, not to hurt them or hit them, but to keep them away, so they cannot hurt you.

You ask 'how can anyone do that?'. I ask 'how can you not see that this is a survival mechanism that is very effective?' I'm not talking about happiness, quality of life, or what not. But just the right to not suffer, or at least, not suffer at the hand of others.

 

[sciski]

The woman he chose to marry was more than a decade older than my dear NF friend. This was all insulting on so many levels,

May I ask why his choice of an older woman was insulting to your friend? Not challenging you, but I honestly don't see why this is insulting?

 

[Afkan]

May I ask why his choice of an older woman was insulting to your friend? Not challenging you, but I honestly don't see why this is insulting?

I don't know. I have no problem w/it personally. My friend specifically stated that as a reason why she was heartbroken.

I appreciate anyone challenging me, no worries. I mean i know you aren't but if you were I wouldn't mind

 

[Afkan]

May I ask why his choice of an older woman was insulting to your friend? Not challenging you, but I honestly don't see why this is insulting?

Oh you know what? I think this subj definitely deserves discussion. I was just thinking about it and remembered a few details. And again, I'm really glad you asked.
By "all ...reasons" I meant a huge pot of reasons... and the decade older thing was just a drop in the pot. I want to explain though,

I think she was hurt that he chose someone older bc... well... he's a lost puppy. He really needed to be "steer" him, and nurture him, and she did that but the fact that he didn't see it that way until someone older was there to do it, that really hurt her. My friend is younger than the two who married- that couple is close in age. My friend sometimes behaves a little passively, its not a bad thing she's just sweet and gentle.
The woman he married is direct, assertive, confident. I think that's what he was looking for, not a certain age.

Additionally, my NF friend is very Fi and doesn't like body image stuff inflicted by the media, she speaks out against it just when in a social setting.

 

[sciski]

Oh.... so does that mean your NF friend felt it was an insult to her own sense of wisdom and maturity?

That makes sense to me. Thanks for explaining it.

However, it kind of does sound as if your friend dodged a bullet... even though it hurt her very much at the time. Hopefully in time she'll realise she was quite lucky.


Going back to the OP, I have a sense that while NFs are likely to be most sensitive to emotional abuse, it's probably ISFJs who are most frequently trodden upon. ISFJs just seem to take a LOT of crap and I always want to protect the ones I know (while probably treading upon them unwittingly).

 

[Afkan]

However, it kind of does sound as if your friend dodged a bullet... even though it hurt her very much at the time. Hopefully in time she'll realise she was quite lucky.

Yes.

 

[proteanmix]

I would flip this question on its head and say that NF's are more likely to classify an experience as abusive.

For one thing, "abusive" is a term of evaluation. If someone were to be violent with me, I would say they were violent with me. I would not necessarily feel it important to define as abuse.

Sensors may rely less on semantic judgments of life's contents and NT's may similarly view experiences from a more impersonal light.

Similarly, I think NF's are more likely than other types to be sensitive to things like verbal abuse relative to NT's perhaps.

I'm inclined to agree with you.

Emotional abuse is

1. the willful or reckless infliction of emotional or mental anguish
2. undermining an individual's sense of self-worth and/or self-esteem. This may include, but is not limited to constant criticism, diminishing one's abilities, name-calling, or damaging one's relationship with his or her children.

If indeed NFs are more psychologically sensitive to such things than what other types shrug off may hit NFs harder. It's a nebulous and difficult...legitimate abuse vs what someone would just tell you to man up about.

I do think people generally are joking in a more mean-spirited way, I guess it's called schadenfreude.(thank you Word of the Day!)

 

[SilkRoad]

You may have answered your own question with your post.

Your friends wisely pointed out the negative nature of the relationship.

So keep talking to your friends about what's going on in your life. They will provide a good outsider's perspective and also the support (or slap, as mentioned in later replies) that you may need.

Yes - having a few people in my life who I can discuss these things with and get their perspective (or have them reassure me that I'm not completely nuts, haha) is very good/important for me

 

[Charmed Justice]

To come to the realization that a parent of yours was or is a crazy unhealthy person who hurt you repeatedly, i.e. abused you, because they were the ones with problems, not you, is a very productive realization.

I don't think that NFs are necessarily more sensitive to emotional abuse, but perhaps we tend to be more aware of it's consequences, making us more likely to articulate the damage done.

 

[Tiltyred]

Why is it important to name things?

For me personally, I would say that I experienced things growing up that other people would call abuse, but I don't see the point in defining the experience. I wouldn't want to make it bigger than it is, as big as it is. I don't see what it benefits me to define and create a story around it. To fetishize the suffering.

Even in my adult life I have been in relationships where I let myself be hurt or even where I hurt myself. Or, even where I hurt others, but again why is it important to name and define?

Speaking for myself, it's important to name and define because if I can't, I just go around in circles wondering why I feel so miserable, why I feel so victimized, why my self-confidence is shot, why the ache in the pit of my stomach, what's wrong with me that I can't do better, etc etc. If someone can tell me, well, it's because you're suffering abuse, here is the definition of abuse, these are the specific behaviors you've been dealing with, then I have something to work with. It gets very mixed up in there because I don't want to see what I don't want to see in a loved one, and I'm very likely to take the blame upon myself for anything that goes wrong. If I can categorically pronounce it abuse, I can at least read about it and find a way to cope or a reason to get out. The defining gives me a rock to stand on.