[NF] NF's and cheating

[Arclight]

I have.. I know quite a few other NFs who have too.. It's something I have discussed at length with many.. I know NF's who have also gotten with people who were already in relationships.

Seems more common than this thread would suggest.

 

[garbage]

Never done it, but I have considered asking one of my partners for an open relationship. Being kind of new to relationships, I didn't realize that that was actually a sign that I was unhappy with the relationship

I don't think cheating is as absolutely disgusting as some do, but there are consequences--passing STDs to your current partner through no real fault of their own, for example.

 

[FakePlasticAlice]

*climbs up on high-horse*

I HATE cheating. PERIOD. If you want to do naughty things to someone else.. then end your relationship and proceed. Why bring betrayal and dishonesty into it? Don't hurt someone else because you can't keep your pants on. If you are in a committed relationship (without a prearranged agreement that you can do such things) and you mess around with someone else.. in that moment..and until you come clean.. you ARE a piece of shit.

When i was in grade 10, about 12 years ago, i cheated on my boyfriend. The guilt i felt was SO immense that i told him right away and broke up with him despite not wanting to and him wanting to work things out. I didn't deserve him anymore.. i ruined that. And i lived with that crap for a long time. Of course, in hindsight, i am glad it happened when i was so young and not serious. I learned my lesson.

I know we all make mistakes..things happen and if someone wants to forgive someone for cheating that's their choice. I never would. I'd be much less likely to hate you for eternity if you came clean immediately (without coaxing from me), but i would still end the relationship. Once you start lying about it (and i WILL find out) you're going to witness my face peal off and see the demon underneath. She's not pretty and the venom she spews with burn into the very depths of your soul.

Now cheating is bad enough, lying about it and even carrying it on continuously is absolutely wretched...but the thing that REALLY gets my blood boiling is when someone is being cheated on and everyone knows but doesn't say a thing. The poor person is oblivious while all their friends know the truth, but none have the guts to speak up. Instead they just whisper behind that person's back "poor thing". Unfortunately i've seen this quite a lot.. and it's lead to a lot of drama... but i just refuse to keep a cheater's secret (even if they are my friend)! I've had a lot of conflict in friendships because of this.. almost losing my very best friend over it even..but i'm not wavering. My friends know this by now, and have finally realized i won't bend my morals for them, - IF YOU CHEAT AND YOU WANT TO KEEP IT A SECRET DO NOT TELL ME. I'm GOING to open my big mouth if you do! Doesn't mean i don't love you as a friend, but what you did/are doing is wrong and i will not be a part of it and i will not let someone go on like a fool...because if that was me i would want someone to tell me.

I must seem quite bitter.. like i've been cheated on so badly.. but in reality i haven't. One relationship i was in a few years ago was in the last phases of the relationship and he kissed another girl..took me about 15 minutes to get it out of him.. i TRIPPED BALLS and ended it.. and it was only a small kiss. That's the most that's been done to me. I wouldn't be in a serious relationship with someone i didn't trust. I'm quite glad that my SO now feels the same way about cheating, unfortunately he's been on the receiving end of it before.

And i know there are extenuating circumstances, such as people trapped in relationships out of fear or whatever it be.. and when those circumstances come up i perhaps wouldn't judge quite so harshly. But i think there's always a better way. I remain true to my morals.. Cheating is wrong.

sidenote: i know that my views are a little..extreme to some. but they are what they are and they are not up for debate.

 

[violaine]

^I think I agree.

I don't think cheating is as absolutely disgusting as some do, but there are consequences--passing STDs to your current partner through no real fault of their own, for example.

The thought of that makes me feel faint. You just never really know what someone is up to/how could anyone do that to another person, etc.

I'm a realist in that I can see how it can happen. But I think it's gravely wrong. End the relationship before you move onto the next one. I've broken up with a boyfriend before because I found out he was cheating on his longtime girlfriend by dating me. I would never do that to another woman, and women who knowingly do things like that rather disgust me. (Yes, the men doing it disgust me too).

 

[Arclight]

People make mistakes.. errors of judgment and lack discipline. No one is perfect.. They Key is learning.. if you don't learn from your mistakes then they become sins.. If you use them as an opportunity to define who you are not.. they become lessons on how not to be.

Why do we judge people by their mistakes instead of what they have accomplished??

 

[violaine]

I just think there is often a tipping point that's reached before cheating. People often get emotionally involved and kid themselves about it before they cheat. Hard to see that as a mistake if you are the person who has been cheated on.

I do believe people can learn from their mistakes and I don't believe 'once unfaithful, always unfaithful'. It does speak to someone's relationship skills though, imo. I'd want to know why they did it and how they've changed before I got involved with someone who'd been unfaithful before.

 

[garbage]

The thought of that makes me feel faint. You just never really know what someone is up to/how could anyone do that to another person, etc.

Why'd I use that as an example? Because it happened to someone close to me.

A husband of a friend of mine cheated on her and gave her.. ... well, something. It's supposed to go away in a year, but who knows. Once divorced, he started a relationship with the 'cheatee,' knocked her up, and proceeded to cheat on her, too.

They Key is learning.. if you don't learn from your mistakes then they become sins..

I agree.

But we can't assume that people actually do learn, either--we can only hope that they do.

 

[FakePlasticAlice]

I've broken up with a boyfriend before because I found out he was cheating on his longtime girlfriend by dating me. I would never do that to another woman, and women who knowingly do things like that rather disgust me. (Yes, the men doing it disgust me too).

The woman doing it knowingly is no better. I'm sick of the argument "i'm doing the other woman a favor". It's just trying to justify shitty behaviour.

Why do we judge people by their mistakes instead of what they have accomplished??

I judge their bad behaviour. If most of them is bad behaviour then i suppose i'm judging them too. I have a friend who has cheated many times and i really don't like that part of her.. she knows this full well. But, besides that.. there are a lot of great things about her.. just because she's cheated doesn't mean that i don't give her credit for all the wonderful parts of her that i love.

I do believe people can learn from their mistakes and I don't believe 'once unfaithful, always unfaithful'. It does speak to someone's relationship skills though, imo. I'd want to know why they did it and how they've changed before I got involved with someone who'd been unfaithful before.

After my cheating experience i was labeled by my ex's sister as "once a cheater always a cheater". People can definitely grow. I'd also be wary of getting into a relationship with someone who has cheated before.. i'd really have to understand why they did it before and what has changed.

 

[Arclight]

I just think there is often a tipping point that's reached before cheating. People often get emotionally involved and kid themselves about it before they cheat. Hard to see that as a mistake if you are the person who has been cheated on.

I do believe people can learn from their mistakes and I don't believe 'once unfaithful, always unfaithful'. It does speak to someone's relationship skills though, imo. I'd want to know why they did it and how they've changed before I got involved with someone who'd been unfaithful before.

Would I go back and change things if I could?? I don't think I would... To do so would deny me being who I am today.. and this is who I am supposed to be.
"Why".. still doesn't change anything.
You are who you are now.. and that is who you are. It's all relative and can change with a simple change in circumstance.
Morality is totally pending at all times. Behavior is not static.
We all have a dark side.. to deny it is to be incomplete. I will never promise someone I wont falter or thatI will be perfect.
I can only continue to be sorry for the past by doing whatever I can to make sure I do not repeat my mistakes in the present. Hopefully this makes for a better future.

 

[redacted]

I've never cheated but I don't think it's because I'm better or anything. It's just that I couldn't imagine being at a point in a relationship where I would want to cheat on my gf. If I notice the kind of dissatisfaction that would lead me to cheat, I'd end it.

That being said, I've been the guy that a girl has cheated on her bf with. It ended before it got to sex, but it was one of the most horrible experiences of my life, and was the first thing I did that literally made me question whether I was a "good" person.

And I've definitely cheated on tests in high school. Just not math/science classes (I'd help others cheat in those).

 

[Arclight]

I don't know if this is related..
But ..

We do not teach our children to lie.. But by the time a child is 2-3 years old they already know how to do it.
We have to teach our children morality, not the other way around.

What is the morality of someone who has grown up without any other human contact?

In that sense, Violaine is correct when she says; Someones relationship skills are what is questionable.. And skills are there to be honed and can always improve.

 

[KDude]

We all have a dark side.. to deny it is to be incomplete.

I haven't cheated before, but I'll agree with you on that.

 

[violaine]

I hear what you are saying and that you are on your own journey. In my mind, a relationship does mean one has to compromise complete freedom though, it's just what happens when two people knit their lives together. The journey is taken in tandem.

I don't believe everyone is ethically/morally flexible from moment to moment. A person often thinks a certain way and then acts accordingly when the circumstances present themselves. I don't think a person has to embrace all of their darker urges to be complete. And certainly anyone doing that has no right to do so without their partner's knowledge, imo.

But I guess that is what open relationships are for!

 

[Arclight]

I hear what you are saying and that you are on your own journey. In my mind, a relationship does mean one has to compromise complete freedom though, it's just what happens when two people knit their lives together. The journey is taken in tandem.

I don't believe everyone is ethically/morally flexible from moment to moment. A person often thinks a certain way and then acts accordingly when the circumstances present themselves. I don't think a person has to embrace all of their darker urges to be complete. And certainly anyone doing that has no right to do so without their partner's knowledge, imo.

But I guess that is what open relationships are for!

OH God No!! I did not mean we must embrace our dark side..
I mean we cannot deny it either.

I will try to explain..

Right now I have no need to steal a loaf of bread. I have enough money to feed myself.
Because there is no need, my morality will not allow me to steal a loaf a bread, just because, I can.
"Can" is the operative word here.
I can cheat or steal.. even if I don't or won't.
Now.. I have no money .. and I haven't eaten in 3 days and there is loaf of bread there that is not mine.. and I can take it.
My morality is going to change because my need has changed.
Now you can argue that circumstances forced you to step outside your moral comfort zone, and you would be correct.
But comfort is as subjective as morality itself.. and that would actually prove my point.
I can do something. In the right instance, I will do that something.
That means behavior is not static, but exists on a sliding scale.
More like the Ennagram than MBTI..
A type6 at stage nine ascension, behaves very different than one at, stage one descent.
But they are both me, and both exist at all times, even if they contradict each other.

 

[violaine]

^Heh, I guess I didn't quite hear what you were saying then.

Yes, it's true that people are capable of a range of behaviors. Of course. I just don't really think there are dire circumstances in most people's relationships when someone cheats. They usually have the option to walk away from their partner first at the very least. I guess I'm focusing more on the chinks in the armor that lead to cheating, that in most circumstances there is a conscious choice made, I think most people who cheat aren't very vigilant with themselves at some point.

(Ok, I'm off for a walk now!)

 

[Phantonym]

Especially now, I don't often find people attractive, so when I do love someone, all the attention goes to him. I rarely even notice other guys when someone really has my heart.

I'm pretty much the same. Of course I do notice other people around me, but it's on a completely platonic level when I'm romantically attached with someone. Nobody else has such a presence in my mind than that person.

I think I do understand how easy it would actually be to act on impulse and cheat on your SO when you're not being aware of all the repercussions of that kind of behaviour. I try to be aware of my feelings all the time, and take other people's feelings into consideration as well. I honestly cannot say what I would do if I ended up in a situation where cheating would be an actual possibility. Of course there is a part of me that would like to say that it would never happen, but since I've never been in that kind of situation before, there could be a number of reasons why people actually do take that option, so I can't be sure of anything. All I know is that loyalty, honestly and integrity have a lot of significance in my life, and I can only hope that my mind will never be so clouded as to forget them.

 

[Intricate Mystic]

OH God No!! I did not mean we must embrace our dark side..
I mean we cannot deny it either.

I will try to explain..

Right now I have no need to steal a loaf of bread. I have enough money to feed myself.
Because there is no need, my morality will not allow me to steal a loaf a bread, just because, I can.
"Can" is the operative word here.
I can cheat or steal.. even if I don't or won't.
Now.. I have no money .. and I haven't eaten in 3 days and there is loaf of bread there that is not mine.. and I can take it.
My morality is going to change because my need has changed.
Now you can argue that circumstances forced you to step outside your moral comfort zone, and you would be correct.
But comfort is as subjective as morality itself.. and that would actually prove my point.
I can do something. In the right instance, I will do that something.
That means behavior is not static, but exists on a sliding scale.
More like the Enneagram than MBTI..
A type6 at stage nine ascension, behaves very different than one at, stage one descent.
But they are both me, and both exist at all times, even if they contradict each other.

This is a very interesting view of morality that is quite in contrast to the Judeo-Christian view that is prevalent in Western society. I wonder if your ideas can be tied to a particular school of philosophy, or if it is an original theory of yours?

 

[Starry]

This is a very interesting view of morality that is quite in contrast to the Judeo-Christian view that is prevalent in Western society. I wonder if your ideas can be tied to a particular school of philosophy, or if it is an original theory of yours?

Umm...I am pretty sure Nietzsche (just for one) beat Arclight to the punch there. LOL.

 

[Arclight]

I never finished my grade 10..(And I have gone to college I know.. Mature student thing) I know many of my ideas are popular schools of thought already.. But I have no formal or amateur education in Philosophy.

Mostly whatever conclusion I come to is through a mix of ideas, observation, and experience. I am sure I pick up little bits here and there from pop media and other people, and a lot of mulling and pondering.

In this particular case my idea of the fluidity of morality is based off of how long it I feel it would take for civil behavior to deteriorate if the system were to break down and show no real chance of recovery, anytime soon thereafter.

I.M. is trying to encourage me to go to University and take Philosophy since I am so naturally interested in it's concepts, whether I am aware of their origins or not.. She is sweet

 

[Starry]

I never finished my grade 10..(And I have gone to college I know.. Mature student thing) I know many of my ideas are popular schools of thought already.. But I have no formal or amateur education in Philosophy.

Mostly whatever conclusion I come to is through a mix of ideas, observation, and experience. I am sure I pick up little bits here and there from pop media and other people, and a lot of mulling and pondering.

In this particular case my idea of the fluidity of morality is based off of how long it I feel it would take for civil behavior to deteriorate if the system were to break down and show no real chance of recovery, anytime soon thereafter.

I.M. is trying to encourage me to go to University and take Philosophy since I am so naturally interested in it's concepts, whether I am aware of their origins or not.. She is sweet

Wasn’t trying to imply you were attempting to take Nietzsche’s ideas and present them as your own. And I certainly was unable to pick-up on the fact that IM was merely trying to encourage you to pursue schooling in Philosophy.

I merely got a giggle from the notion that you were possibly presenting a whole new school of philosophical thought...which is how it was put forth. And all I could see was Absolutism vs Relativism…or Objective Morality vs Subjective Morality. Basically the sum total of all post-modern thinking. So…I laugh a lot. No big.

You can’t exist in modern society and not be influenced by Nietzsche. It is just how it is. You do not even need to know he existed…and if you are living today…his thoughts will be yours.