[ENFJ] Hate an ENFJ? Tell us why!

[MacGuffin]

Who doesn't hate ENFJs though?

The only thing they are good for (besides as a warning to others) is as an alternative fuel source.

Wait I thought of another positive attribute!

If your mule dies, you can easily use a team of ENFJs to pull the plow and get the seeds planted. Don't even really need to feed 'em!

 

[Wild horses]

Until I stumbled across this thread I did not realise that there was an assumed hatred of ENFJs?!! I always thought that they were well liked... however, someone did say that perfection doesn't foster a connection... maybe that's the issue!

 

[SpottingTrains]

I just discovered this thread and had it has left me wanting to respond, even if it involves a little bit of thread necromancy Since I am an ENFJ myself I will not add to the prodigious list that has been compiled here but I will try to provide some insight to each of the faults that have been listed here about us (This is from a male perspective, might be worth noting).

After reading through this thread the biggest source of hatred I have found is the manipulative aspect of us. Personally, I can wholeheartedly see how this is true. As I have just started getting into all of this MBTI stuff I can't say for sure if I have been actively involved with another ENFJ in my life so I will just try to relate to this trait through my own experience.

I am manipulative. That is a fact that I won't contest. I would rather it be a different word as that one sounds like some epic paragon of evil but whatever. The thing is though, or maybe this is just what I tell myself, I don't actively tell myself that "I must manipulate this person so X can be achieved" or anything close to that. I naturally get a long with every person I meet and through my intuition I subconsciously begin to process thoughts about who this person is and how I should relate to them, adjusting to meet the circumstances. The overbearing reason I do this is not because I want too but because it is natural. I naturally enjoying talking to people and learning about them and how they want to see people, nothing is premeditated.

On the same token of how I naturally love to envelope myself in the troubles of others I also can be very harsh and judgmental. Through past introspection I have found that if someone I see has an assortment of very negative traits (Ex. Rudeness, Lying) I will instinctively become very distrustful of that person and adjust my emotions and body language to that person in a way that others will notice and many times even emulate. This is the part I dislike most about myself as I do not wish to bring sadness to another person but when I see someone so corrupt in the ideals which I hold in my head I just can't stand to be in their presence.

Secondly, though it wasn't one of the more common complaints, is how we neglect our own needs for others and end up internalizing a lot of issues. From a male perspective this is one of the toughest things for me to deal with. I find that I only internalize the emotions that emotionally damage me, anything else will be shared with joyous abundance I am hoping dealing with these internal emotions will get easier as I mature more (21st birthday approaching). The best solution I have found to do is either A. Do a massive amount of cardio that would make the average person think I had a pack of swooning lepers chasing after me or B. Take a bath, turn of the lights and just go through every emotion, this isn't anything dark or evil, just a realization of all the emotions I have internalized. I guess this all comes back to the whole thing about ENFJs not being able to open up themselves to others. Quoting runvardh from one of the first posts in this thread: "It's a real pain in the ass to show them that yes you really do give a shit, 100 fucking %". No one has been able to convince me of that yet.

Hopefully this gives you guys a little idea on some of the traits you have listed. I don't know where I fall on the good and bad scale of ENFJs but I tried to give an honest account of how I deal with the issues that were presented.

Oh and..

 

[pecan111]

Some more questions for an enfj please

After reading through this thread the biggest source of hatred I have found is the manipulative aspect of us. Personally, I can wholeheartedly see how this is true. As I have just started getting into all of this MBTI stuff I can't say for sure if I have been actively involved with another ENFJ in my life so I will just try to relate to this trait through my own experience.

thanks for the willingness...i am a woman who really wants to understand what it is like for a male enfj.

I am manipulative. That is a fact that I won't contest. I would rather it be a different word as that one sounds like some epic paragon of evil but whatever. The thing is though, or maybe this is just what I tell myself, I don't actively tell myself that "I must manipulate this person so X can be achieved" or anything close to that. I naturally get a long with every person I meet and through my intuition I subconsciously begin to process thoughts about who this person is and how I should relate to them, adjusting to meet the circumstances. The overbearing reason I do this is not because I want too but because it is natural. I naturally enjoying talking to people and learning about them and how they want to see people, nothing is premeditated.

The problem is we, as non enfj's come away feeling so manipulated and used that we can't feel good about you after the relationship ends. I don't like feelign this way. I can take responsibility for my end of the deal, but it seems like ever time I confront an enfj as to their intentions, they seem oblivious of some very real hurts they cause. The anguish is in not seeing our feelings...it seems that no matter what I say to let a man into my world, all he tends to do is say. "that is not the way I see it"...it tends to come across and never validating our feelings, but boy, if we don't look after yours, you guys tend to go nuts.

Secondly, though it wasn't one of the more common complaints, is how we neglect our own needs for others and end up internalizing a lot of issues. From a male perspective this is one of the toughest things for me to deal with. I find that I only internalize the emotions that emotionally damage me, anything else will be shared with joyous abundance

:

Yes, I have heard this before in that the guy goes nuts with envy and disdain and paranoia and sickto the stomach type of feelings, but won't let this out in front of me. Its all alone and over email or the phone and it doesn't lend itself to a sharing experience where we might be able to comfort or help. If nothign more than a simple hug. I want to be there, but its impossible!!

Quoting runvardh from one of the first posts in this thread: "It's a real pain in the ass to show them that yes you really do give a shit, 100 fucking %". No one has been able to convince me of that yet.

I dont understand the context of this quote...is it the enfj that worries aobut showing that they care of is the other person????

Hopefully this gives you guys a little idea on some of the traits you have listed. I don't know where I fall on the good and bad scale of ENFJs but I tried to give an honest account of how I deal with the issues that were presented.

ITs very kind of you to examine yourself and try and be honest with us.
I do want to ask something...i think Kalach said it, but not sure...its like you guys need to be IN us somehow.....can you elaborate on this. I think he has an interesting idea...I ask this because the last enfj that I knew would be pushy with respect to my boundaries regarding discussing certain issues. If things were not goign well and he was distressed (both of us were), its like he HAD to have a discussion when he wanted it. He wouldn't allow me to process for awhile and think , then talk...He was very goo dabout outher boundaries, but when it came to this issue, he just blew it over and over. ITs eventaully the proverbial straw that broke the camels back with us. He pushed me one time too many and I fought back with words, which can come way too easily for me when I am pushed too hard, and it brought everything down to a crashing halt. I dont' even know how he felt because he would not speak to me, either bec. he didn't or bec. someone else told him not to. I view this pushiness and then no communication as incredibly cowardly. Very cruel to me and unjust. I just wanted to understand, but he wouldn't let me. Why do so many nf's just ditch people when things do go their way. I don't even know what really happened...??

 

[Domino]

I don't know why NFs abruptly ditch people, but it's not charming or humane.

 

[Anja]

*Bludgeons Pink with a feather.*

I did NOT! I do NOT!

 

[Domino]

Oh you think after the way you treated me, vile harpy, that you'll win me back with your sexy feather bludgeoning skillz!



And you'd so be right.

 

[FantailedWall]

I don't know why NFs abruptly ditch people, but it's not charming or humane.

Do not! Do not!
-Ditches rock at her head-

Unless...That's what you meant

 

[Domino]

I see a little fantail wishes to get the sexy piranha treatment!! *stuffs you in a bubble chest until done chasing Anja around the tank*

 

[FantailedWall]

I see a little fantail wishes to get the sexy piranha treatment!! *stuffs you in a bubble chest until done chasing Anja around the tank*

Mmmposdfhq0328947!+#8)(@!
My ENFP freedom is being restricted

I DEMAND RELEASE.

 

[527468]

I've never met a male ENFJ, but I can imagine myself sniping him in the face.

 

[SpottingTrains]

The problem is we, as non enfj's come away feeling so manipulated and used that we can't feel good about you after the relationship ends. I don't like feelign this way. I can take responsibility for my end of the deal, but it seems like ever time I confront an enfj as to their intentions, they seem oblivious of some very real hurts they cause. The anguish is in not seeing our feelings...it seems that no matter what I say to let a man into my world, all he tends to do is say. "that is not the way I see it"...it tends to come across and never validating our feelings, but boy, if we don't look after yours, you guys tend to go nuts.

This seems almost opposite of how I interact. I am really open about exploring other peoples feelings and have gotten really good at dealing with my own. Are you sure he is an ENFJ and if so I think he is maybe dealing with something outside of his ENFJness but what do I know.

Yes, I have heard this before in that the guy goes nuts with envy and disdain and paranoia and sickto the stomach type of feelings, but won't let this out in front of me. Its all alone and over email or the phone and it doesn't lend itself to a sharing experience where we might be able to comfort or help. If nothign more than a simple hug. I want to be there, but its impossible!!

I can sort of relate to this but not is the same capacity. I don't enjoy talking on the phone but I can understand him not wanting to share how he feels.

I dont understand the context of this quote...is it the enfj that worries aobut showing that they care of is the other person????

The person I quoted was pointing out how no matter what he/she does the ENFJ they had a relationship with wouldn't trust/be brave enough to let out their real feelings.

I just wanted to understand, but he wouldn't let me. Why do so many nf's just ditch people when things do go their way. I don't even know what really happened...??

This is about my 5th time trying to type a response to this and I'm not really sure how to go about it. Obviously your relationship wasn't perfect (but really, what relationship is ) and the emotions that he was internalizing were slowly eating away at him when he should of been trying to discuss them with you. In his eyes a clean break was the only way that he could fully recover from what he had put himself through. I'm not trying to justify what he did to you but I am trying to maybe give a different perspective on the ordeal.

This still wasn't exactly what I wanted to say but this probably as close as I will come.

 

[SpottingTrains]

I've never met a male ENFJ, but I can imagine myself sniping him in the face.

We just want to help D:!

 

[Kalach]

I can take responsibility for my end of the deal, but it seems like ever time I confront an enfj as to their intentions, they seem oblivious of some very real hurts they cause. The anguish is in not seeing our feelings...it seems that no matter what I say to let a man into my world, all he tends to do is say. "that is not the way I see it"...it tends to come across and never validating our feelings, but boy, if we don't look after yours, you guys tend to go nuts.

Oh boy, there's a whole lot in this paragraph.

I take it for granted that when ENFJs seem oblivious, they're really not. But they're also really not the live and let live type of this world--they're the managers of people. "That is not the way I see it" is management talk, for example. They make command decisions, is what ENFJs do. They make the decisions for us mortals.

It is imperative then, morally imperative, that ENFJs build up a muscular, knowledgable intuition. And they had better do something about growing some functional Ti too. In non-technical words, ENFJs are required, morally and by their own nature, to see a much bigger picture of true possibilities for the people around them. True possibilities. ENXJs, you assholes are the kings and queens of this world, and you are required to lead it correctly.

I worry about ENXJs. Because they are so very active in the real, immediate world, and because by themselves each one of them is so very obviously exactly half-way to being the complete person, they have a lot of fearsome, unbalanced power.

Pec, your guy, I don't know, I really don't know anything much about any of these things. I'd guess he had some very, very big thing going on inside him to have chosen to shut down the connection you talk about having. What a great pity that he had to go and make too executive a decision.

Can I go ahead and guess some horrible guess? Bear in mind I am using ham-fisted Te to get at this idea. I'd be willing to guess he was both overwhelmed (by the connection) and under supported, ironically probably because with two E's together, the down, silent, closeness time would have been limited. He felt so, anyway. So he made a decision to withdraw. Really hope I'm not opening wounds with this kind of talk. I know for sure I am not speaking accurate truth, but rather banging around in the dark with inadequate tools.

ITs very kind of you to examine yourself and try and be honest with us.
I do want to ask something...i think Kalach said it, but not sure...its like you guys need to be IN us somehow.....can you elaborate on this.

Well, I didn't say that but, dang, if ENFJs don't get all sexually charged when they do.

 

[Amargith]

*stays away from the Piranha*

What is with this controlling vibe ENFJ's have!

 

[sculpting]

I find ENFJs are the type I dislike the most. I can even hang out and respect an ESTJ brefore an ENFJ.

We are so close yet so far apart and I drive them fucking batty. Maybe its my Fi but I can "feel" them applying the emotional push to control me P-ness and it freaks me out. Do not use my emotions to make me do things. The hardeer they push, the harder I push back.

Also they (pot calling the kettle black) are totally illogical at times, yet convinced they are right. This may work great when you are discussing opinions about politics but it is a waste of time when you are trying to tell them how to prepare a buffer or pour a plate.

They appear to feel that they know what is best for me. "Ah, honey, you just need to..." Dont wrap your request in enderments, and soft talk and expect me to hop to becuase of your need for harmony.

They also are really great at the implied emotional content in messages. They say something and I feel like they are leaving a whole lot more unsaid, yet implied. Could be me being nutty though.

For the few I have been around this back and forth sort of spirals into an unhealthy interaction, and we end up not liking each other very much

 

[Kasper]

ENFJs steal people's mojo. For that I hate ever last one of them!

 

[The Third Rider]

Interesting information on this thread.
*takes notes*

 

[Tiny Army]

Okay, this rant has been a long time coming. My mother is an ENFJ and now I am faced with an ENFJ male who features prominently in my life. MY GOD. ENFJ + things not going 100% perfectly results in such WHINING. I can't handle that much Fe if all you're Fe-ing about is how shitty your life is, man. Depressed ENFJs are the worst because they're so vocal and self centered about it. This guy actually complained once because I was having a really bad period and this meant he "had to be sensitive" and couldn't talk about how shitty his life was because he was being so sensitive to my pain. Gee, I'm sorry my cramps took away from the Tim and His Shitty Life Show.

Now, I've met ENFJs who aren't crazy and I really respect their passion and drive for self improvement but when an ENFJ is down they take everyone down with them.

 

[Laurie]

I. must. sacrifice. myself. for. you.