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[MBTI General] Working our way to nonentity?

boondocked

New member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
110
MBTI Type
NP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
The goal is to be well-rounded and everything, I get that.

But on the quest to become balanced and bring our N scores closer to the middle and make our F less extreme and etc., aren't we losing the defined talents that come with the extreme?

When I first took the official Myers Briggs, back when I hadn't even heard of it, I scored 100% N. I was sooo relieved to have a word for what made me zig when some others zagged. Ever since then, I've been trying to beat the N down so I could get on in a concrete world. I mean, N comes in handy for clever ideas and bizarre charm, but hell, it really can't help me find my way out of a paper bag, much less find my way on map. So I've been turning away from my preferences, trying to approximate the center.

Thing is, I feel like I'm averaging out to zero, being neither very adept at S things no matter HOW hard I try, and losing some N skills and outlooks in the process.

What say you, new friends?? CAN we achieve the center of the scales? Should we try, or should we focus on making our preference gifts even more pronounced? Is the middle of the continuum bland? Eeep!
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
I think ones movement on a scale can less be seen as a concrete pointer that measures the exact position. Also I do think that changing oneself for philosophy you found on the internet, is a process that doesnt move linear, but rather slides the pointer to a new dimension, but then ricochets back to point one, cause the very process of change is constantly changing in oneself.

If you totally change yourself to live another ideal, it will leave you empty, cause you just claimed new land in which you are a total foreigner and therefore cant count on a blizzard of new perception. But if you keep an open mind, what you obviously have when being intrested in other peoples ways of seeing things, you have to find a base point for yourself from which you coordinate your operations.

With this point then you can take out the best of both worlds and grow to be an elightened person in the end. Changing between both worlds is not possible, it maybe in your mind, but your friends will now that it isnt you.
 

Stanton Moore

morose bourgeoisie
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
3,900
MBTI Type
INFP
I scored 100% 'N' too...

But we all still use sensory input all the time. there is no other way to navigate through the physical world.

One thing I try to do is to just be where I am, right now. Really feel what I'm feeling, see the color of the sky. Hear the sound of the rain, or my footsteps. If I concentrate on what my senses are perceiving, I find that it enhases my intuition and relaxes me. So much of what we think is intuition is just an aspect of the monkey mind, swinging from branch to branch moving from one superficial thought/worry to the next.
 

Quinlan

Intriguing....
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
3,004
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
9w1
Yeah I think the whole balance thing is overrated around here, what's the point of balanced preferences anyway? It's like becoming bisexual solely for the sake of balance.

There is nothing wrong with having preferences.
 

EcK

The Memes Justify the End
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
7,708
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
738
It's like becoming bisexual solely for the sake of balance.

There is nothing wrong with having preferences.
You mean I didn't have to :cry:?!
 

kiddykat

movin melodies
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
1,111
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4, 7
Boondocked, I really love this topic.

Interestingly, Jung also believed that as individuals, we strive to find balance as we get older.. Some psychologists may call it flatlining, because it takes away from the essence of who we truly are.. the fabric of our colour.

When I look at people who have strong preferences, it amazes me how they harness their gifts/talents. There's this "it" factor that's undeniable. Hands down- I admire that ability to be proud to be who you are, instead of conforming to external standards of living.

I think that we all have our own strengths/weaknesses that make us unique. I think it's beneficial to focus on what's working for us, and grow in that regard, instead of abandoning what truly makes us happy/functional.

In an ideal world, we would all be able to freely express who we are/work in unison with one another. Socialization is a tricky thing, and also I think it depends on the mentality of the society.. (on a micro/macro level, which effects our daily interactions in how we communicate with one another) -Some more accepting than others.
 

Gothmawg

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
37
MBTI Type
INFP
As much as I admire other types, especially the E and T types, I only have momentary lapses of insanity in that direction.

I LIKE who I am and every time I have tried to be something I wasn't, it always left me cold.
 

Eruca

78% me
Joined
Nov 14, 2008
Messages
939
MBTI Type
INxx
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Its important for T's to develop their F, and F's to develop their T.

Im developing my F with a cat avater, which is basically 90% of what being an INFP is all about.

Apart from that its pretty much all good.
 

Gerbah

New member
Joined
Oct 6, 2009
Messages
433
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
5w4
If you feel like you are becoming zero you are probably trying to develop S at the cost of being your natural N self. I don't think balance is about becoming bland and average. Making a weak function stronger doesn't make your natural strengths weaker. It just means you have more options to choose from so that you can deal with reality with more freedom rather than being forced always to do things the same way.
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,463
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w8
You want permission to do what you like or are you talking about whether you should learn about how people figure stuff objectively and even make use of it?

The former, no. The latter, yes.

I've found my ESFJ side very useful now I've got more control of it. I can time things accurately and organise myself effectively... when I can be bothered. I'm still an INTP but I've got less of the usual problems associated with an underdeveloped INTP and that's the goal of trying to up "the other side". It's not about quashing what you've got but adding to it.

Believe it or not, that riot in your head which feels like it's barely contained... it only gets more full...
 

boondocked

New member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
110
MBTI Type
NP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
When I look at people who have strong preferences, it amazes me how they harness their gifts/talents. There's this "it" factor that's undeniable. Hands down- I admire that ability to be proud to be who you are, instead of conforming to external standards of living.

Socialization is a tricky thing, and also I think it depends on the mentality of the society.. (on a micro/macro level, which effects our daily interactions in how we communicate with one another) -Some more accepting than others.

I feel exactly the same. I don't know how some people find the moral courage to be whoever they happen to be. Maybe it's an NF thing, to try to smush oneself into whatever people want! And you've just GOT to conform, because the other option, people looking at you weird or maybe ostracizing you, just isn't worth it. Or maybe that's just me :rolleyes:

If you feel like you are becoming zero you are probably trying to develop S at the cost of being your natural N self. I don't think balance is about becoming bland and average. Making a weak function stronger doesn't make your natural strengths weaker.

A good point. Like, theoretically, if I tried to make my left hand stronger, my right wouldn't get weaker. Why does it feel like I'm losing my N, then?

If you totally change yourself to live another ideal, it will leave you empty, cause you just claimed new land in which you are a total foreigner and therefore cant count on a blizzard of new perception

Too true, too true. Le sigh.

Yeah I think the whole balance thing is overrated around here, what's the point of balanced preferences anyway? It's like becoming bisexual solely for the sake of balance.

hahahahahaha...absolutely. I always find that I enjoy people with really defined preferences...it's almost like they've elevated their type talents into an art form. I mean, they get so much practice with N or S or whatever because they hardly use the other. The talents that come with whichever extreme function REALLY knock me over because they're so...concentrated??

Anyway, I love this discussion and you all are pretty damn insightful. Thanks :hug:
 

Gerbah

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Oct 6, 2009
Messages
433
MBTI Type
ISTJ
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5w4
A good point. Like, theoretically, if I tried to make my left hand stronger, my right wouldn't get weaker. Why does it feel like I'm losing my N, then?

I don't know. Can you give an example of a situation where you felt like you were losing your N?
 

boondocked

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Mar 27, 2009
Messages
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NP
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4w3
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sx/so
For instance, I was trying to find an important email from a few years ago and happened to read a lot of those super old emails. I couldn't help but roll my eyes, hard, at some of my turns of phrase and the sheer distance from reality. :doh:

I'm sure everyone gets squicky when they read something from a long time ago, but I also got nostalgic. The ideas in all of my emails were weirdly inventive and the phrases, if a bit airy fairy, were quippy and original. I just can't do that anymore, and tend to think it a bit silly anyway. I've whitewashed some of my language and point of view in order to be as concrete as possible. And despite the effort, most people STILL do concrete better than me. I have total S envy, but my gifts were more pronounced when I was a hard N.

Does that make sense? I can't tell.

:cheese:
 

Lily Bart

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
136
MBTI Type
INFP
You will always prefer NF and always feel more comfortable using NF, but as you grow older, you will also develop more comfort with lesser functions. You can't force yourself to be a sensor. If you try, it won't come across naturally -- it will be forced and awkward and probably other people will find it offensive. It will probably make you feel tense and angry. Developing lesser functions is something that just comes naturally as you mature and can't be forced. For example, I've always had to use T (my third function) a lot, but it hurt my head to do it and I had to do a lot of unwinding afterward. Lately though, I've found myself using T without even thinking twice about it -- my mind has just started working that way and there's nothing I can do to stop it. I'll be taking a walk and instead of soaking in the beautiful scenery like I used to and feeling my spirit soar because of it, I'll be looking at various types of landscaping and thinking "why did they choose this plant and what's the advantage of it over another?" and it's not something I'm choosing to do consciously -- it just happens. So the moral of the story is, don't try to be anything, just relax and let your preferences do what they do best.
 

Chloe

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Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
2,196
The goal is to be well-rounded and everything, I get that.

But on the quest to become balanced and bring our N scores closer to the middle and make our F less extreme and etc., aren't we losing the defined talents that come with the extreme?

When I first took the official Myers Briggs, back when I hadn't even heard of it, I scored 100% N. I was sooo relieved to have a word for what made me zig when some others zagged. Ever since then, I've been trying to beat the N down so I could get on in a concrete world. I mean, N comes in handy for clever ideas and bizarre charm, but hell, it really can't help me find my way out of a paper bag, much less find my way on map. So I've been turning away from my preferences, trying to approximate the center.

Thing is, I feel like I'm averaging out to zero, being neither very adept at S things no matter HOW hard I try, and losing some N skills and outlooks in the process.

What say you, new friends?? CAN we achieve the center of the scales? Should we try, or should we focus on making our preference gifts even more pronounced? Is the middle of the continuum bland? Eeep!

I don't think being well rounded person means we should become more balanced on any letter. And I think it's not SO possible.. but at the same time, it does happen a bit with becoming stable. I think one should first accept intuition, and feelings, like best tool, a bit paradox but I think our, at least my, problems come more from not trusting intuition, or avoiding it, than from being very low on S.
I score around 85% on N, but I guess it's almost 100% subconsciuosly, i'm just consciously aware that paying attention to S sometimes is good, so in some cases I do. or believe I do.

I personally am trying to just be aware of why I do stuff like I do, and how I perceive stuff... as I said, i think that more problems come from not trusting our "eyes".
Though they say tertirary Te helps a lot to ENFPs etc...which I believe to be true, and noticed a bit lately since I'm bit more rational (i used to be 100% F :D) but I dont think it contradicts with my idea of not needing to balance....
S and T in ENFP should be like good-functioning reserves, back up plan, but not something we learned to use so we can score on all letters 50%.
Hah, I dont know... :D i'm saying all this because it all rings to me like trying to change your nature if you "force yourself to become more balanced".
 

Gerbah

New member
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Oct 6, 2009
Messages
433
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ISTJ
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5w4
For instance, I was trying to find an important email from a few years ago and happened to read a lot of those super old emails. I couldn't help but roll my eyes, hard, at some of my turns of phrase and the sheer distance from reality. :doh:

I'm sure everyone gets squicky when they read something from a long time ago, but I also got nostalgic. The ideas in all of my emails were weirdly inventive and the phrases, if a bit airy fairy, were quippy and original. I just can't do that anymore, and tend to think it a bit silly anyway. I've whitewashed some of my language and point of view in order to be as concrete as possible. And despite the effort, most people STILL do concrete better than me. I have total S envy, but my gifts were more pronounced when I was a hard N.

Does that make sense? I can't tell.

:cheese:

Well, I personally also have envy of, for example, people with really good empathy, like you NFs for example. :) I don't think it does much good though to compare yourself too much to people with different strengths to you and to let it affect your self-image, which is what you seem to be doing...? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Do you need S for something important? Like, does your life require a lot of S at the moment? Are you surrounded by strong Ss who make you feel insecure?

Generally, I've found it's better to develop and enjoy your strengths and try to align your decision-making with what will support that while developing the weaker strengths to have as optional tools to use when you inevitably get in situations where they are more appropriate to use. You should normally be able to pick and choose which strengths to use without losing or weakening any of them, which makes me think that this losing N issue is maybe more related to something else other than use of S.

I know one INFJ for example who used to draw and paint a lot when she was a kid and then stopped that for a number of years, then later came back to it as a kind of stress release. Maybe you just need to channel that N into something more suited to it than emails and other such S things? If you think it wasn't appropriate to write emails like that?
 

boondocked

New member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
110
MBTI Type
NP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I don't think it does much good though to compare yourself too much to people with different strengths to you and to let it affect your self-image, which is what you seem to be doing...? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Actually, I'm really sad to lose my extreme N!! Moving more towards the middle wasn't really my choice, much as I've always relished the S perspective. It simply feels like the best way to jog along. I think society prefers people of temperate traits, and I prefer to be in the thick of society. Nevertheless, it makes me sad to read through past emails and find myself rolling my eyes. I mean, it's inventive, kinda charming stuff. It sucks to be so irritated by it. Maybe that's just growth, tho. I'm five years older now. Maybe my N was out of control or something and what I'm really responding to is immaturity? :shock:

Generally, I've found it's better to develop and enjoy your strengths and try to align your decision-making with what will support that while developing the weaker strengths to have as optional tools to use when you inevitably get in situations where they are more appropriate to use.

That's smart. I just need to find a way to do that without sacrificing some of the things I adored about being straight up N. Probably the concept of balance and being in the center of the personality scales aren't exactly the same thing, like Chloee said.

I guess the whole reason I started this thread was out of respect and admiration for people at the very ends of each spectrum. I mean, for instance a J that's only slightly J doesn't have the recognizable talents of a full blown. Their talent is perhaps being relateable to both ends of the spectrum. A full J reaps all the good and bad of the judging temperment. And then society can't help but tamp them down, try to temper them, in the name of balance. I initially read this as a forced slide towards the middle of the scales.

Anyway, I LOVE all the feedback. Does anyone think being extreme in one dimension is maladaptive, or is it just a matter of not relying on our preferred function in situations that call for the opposite function?

:cheers:
 
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