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  1. #121
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Dec 2007


    if "good" is beneficial but fair, although "feelers" may experience compassion more readily, this could merely provoke good, not define it. there are plenty of selfish feelings as well as fair and beneficial thinking.

    you have to consider by what metric someone measures another in this regard... if someone does something that a person doesnt like, but were being fair (from a more objective standpoint) then that person would probably be less inclined to call the other a good person. interestingly, this would suggest that although "feelers" may not be more or less likely to be good themselves, they may be more likely to define others as such based on their [selfish] feelings (i.e., how that person makes them feel) rather than a more objective method

  2. #122
    Senior Member SquirrelTao's Avatar
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    May 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel De Mazarin View Post
    even NTs? we're not a sub-species!

    (but I appreciate your post)
    That was meant to be sarcastic. Probably too subtle and dry to come across very well online. I was just replying to somebody else here recently saying that NTs are not a different species.

    Actually, I was just thinking about this today, and I can't imagine what it would be like not to have multiple options at all (or most) times as to how to respond to or look at almost any given thing. I mean, I'm sure if I'm startled my reaction is going to be pretty involuntary; but in most circumstances, I always feel I have a lot of options as to how to react to or view anything, and I assume that other people are like that, too.

  3. #123
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008


    I definitely dont think feelers have the edge on good. Feeling is an orientation and a too l for understanding the world. Often (in mysef at least) it just operates by default. Sometimes I have great empathy but at other times I just know I should but dont. When it turns into self admiration thing for being a good and feeling person it is no longer good IMO. I am surprised that this lady didnt see this coming earlier and back off a bit before things got nasty though. Fe types are usually excellent at that.

  4. #124
    I can eat broccoli. Metis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I've kinda changed a lot since I wrote that OP and view things slightly differently
    What's your take on this now?

  5. #125
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Example of what I was just saying about equating empathy with right actions and judgements:

    ENFJ: So you're saying that you don't think I'm worth your time because I don't come up to your standards?
    Me: No, that's nothing like what I meant. [frustration showing in my voice] I'm simply saying that I find you too much hard work to be around, but in no way is this any cause for me to judge you. It's probably a fault in me that makes me not be able to get along with you smoothly - I'm just trying to be honest here and reduce both of our stress loads.
    ENFJ: But you are judging me, because you're saying you don't want to see me any more.
    Me: No, that's not judging, that's just me making a choice about what I do with my free time. I'm not saying that just because I don't want to spend time with someone, I therefore think they're a bad person. I'm not some supreme arbiter of human worth - all it means if I don't want to spend time with you is that you and I are incompatible. It doesn't mean anything about my opinion of you as a human being. [agitation and exasperation with seemingly wilful misunderstanding showing in my tone of voice]
    ENFJ: But listen to yourself - your voice is full of anger and you're insulting me because you just can't handle the fact that I disagree with you.
    Me: No, my voice is full of anger because I'm trying to communicate my feelings and thoughts to you, but you keep twisting what I say to make out that I'm trying to upset you.
    ENFJ: But you are upsetting me.
    Me: It's not my intention! I'm actually saying the exact opposite of what you keep telling me I'm saying, you're doing my fucking head in!
    ENFJ: You see? You're just flying off the handle at me, it's quite clear to me that I annoy the hell out of you and you just don't want anything to do with me, you think I'm stupid and not worth your time.
    Me: NOOOOOOO!!!!! I'm saying you're alright and a good person, just not my cup of tea ffs! Clearly I'm not your cup of tea either, so I don't know why you're having such a problem with it!
    ENFJ: That's right, now you're trying to make out it's me who's insulting you.
    Me: NO!!!! ARGHGHGHGHG why do you keep putting everything I say down to anger when the only reason I'm angry is because you're NOT LISTENING to me, and the only response it's causing is to make me keep trying to EXPLAIN to you! Why don't you listen to my WORDS instead of focusing on my feelings and trying to interpret my words in light of them? The words have nothing to do with my feelings, I'm talking about something totally separate to what's currently causing me to feel angry and frustrated!!
    ENFJ: Yeah, whatever sub, well, since you've made it quite clear what you think of me, I just won't bother you any more. Goodbye (flounce off).
    Me: Dude, you've just walked out with a fixed idea that you know what I think of you, but in fact, you haven't a fucking clue... sigh!
    Sounds like an argument I'd have with an ENFJ

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Oct 2008


    It is absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious.

    - Oscar Wilde

  7. #127
    Senior Member quietmusician's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Surely that's not true goodness though - surely that's actually selfishness?! I mean, if I sit next to someone on a bench who is crying, and I try to make them feel better, it's not because I get anything out of it - I don't! It doesn't make me sad just because they are, and when they're happy it doesn't make me any happier than I already was.

    If I do 'nice' things for people it's because I believe in Goodness as a concept, and because I try to live by a philosophy of just indiscriminately being good to people, if only to try and chip away at the cynicism and lack of faith in humanity that so many people have. I want the world to be a good place, and as long as nobody does anything except for their select few, because they believe nobody else would for them and nobody really cares, the world will never be a good place. I think that by helping when you have no personal investment, you're just making the world a little bit better.

    Now, surely that is goodness? I've always had a strong feeling that when my sisters says things like "I keep all my feelings inside for the sake of those I love", meaning she doesn't say things to people that they need to hear because it might upset them - it's not really because of what she thinks. It's more just because she doesn't like it when people get upset/angry or shout or whatever. She can't handle it, so she avoids that situation from happening.
    I understand what you're saying completely. And I don't think that makes you a bad person. Being an INFP, people have expected me to behave a certain way all the time. And that's when I get in my certain modes and say screw everything and everyone. I don't like having to be defined as something. If someone is upset that usually makes me feel weird. Not always sad, but just confused, like I don't know what to do. Just because I'm a feeling type doesn't mean I like comforting. I really get stressed out/partially annoyed if someone's crying. Personally, I think my childhood has driven me to this state of mind, but that's another story.

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