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[INFJ] Self-Image of the INFJ

fill

"Everything in its place"
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Jun 28, 2009
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I think the problem may be that you want to be as "real" as you can with others, which, in your case possibly, takes place by being first real with yourself. Sounds to me like you may see yourself as so imperfect that the closest thing to combatting it is "realizing" it.

Honestly. I mean- I used to share these thoughts. But- I found out: I have potential. Everyone has potential. Nothing's useless. I see so many succeed. I got by without doing much. If I put just a little more effort or, hell, a lot more effort into doing things... hey, I could be great.
 

Edasich

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Also, taking 2 examples of the INFJ's i know with this kind of 'goal motivation' encouragement...
They're both really great writers.
One knows she is and writing is her release.
The other is also a great writer but she's always so down on herself about it -like 'this is terrible, not as good as yours' etc...
And its a load of rubbish. She's great... and I know she enjoys it, its just this inferiority complex thats stopping her.

In that example, how do you change that mindset?
Thats just one random example.
I tell her its great and I that I'm really impressed. I dunno how to make her believe that she's really good, you know?

Anyway, thats just a random, off track, practical example, not general to all.

INFJ's what speaks loudest to you?
Do words of encouragement fall on the floor? It doens't often seem like they're taken to heart. Kind of like 'you're just saying that coz you have to.'
These issues seem really complex and personal
Genuine words of encouragement motivate me a little. If I can tell my best friend really likes my work...if i know i'm gonna show him another bit, it sometimes does motivate me to work a little bit harder.

While this failure to self-actualize brings despair to a lot of ppl, infjs are probably more aware of this which just makes it worse. Especially, as others have said, since infjs often have unrealistic expectations...even with enough motivation, you can't be something that is impossible to achieve
 

Edasich

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Oh yeah, one other thing: i know where i want to be but i just have the final picture - no steps in between of how to get there. Which i think is one of the issues in my motivation...not knowing where to start so not starting at all. Dunno about other infjs though
 

Kyrielle

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Every INFJ I know seems to have consistently low opinions of themselves.

Bad body image (even if they're attractive physically!), a lack of faith in their abilities, and even sometimes just this general melancholic, self-loathing.

Maybe I've just met a bunch with particularly low self-esteem.


Is this generally applicable to INFJ's?

Other than the useless "its not true", how can this be combatted?



Sometimes I just get so frustrated by it; it just seems so debilitating in terms of reaching their full potential.

I don't know. I know I've always had a low sense of self-worth and have (and still do) strugged with low self-esteem and self-confidence.

I don't know why I'm this way, I just am. I've always erred on the side of over-humility, always underestimated what I am worth, and underestimated my own abilities. The result is low self-confidence and self-esteem (though my self-esteem is markedly higher than it once was, but self-confidence is still lagging behind). It's a very long process of learning exactly how confident I really need to be and learning what my worth for other people really is.

Might also be worth noting that my judgements of many things in life and reality also err on the side of caution. I am not, and probably never will be, reckless or ambitious.

And yes, I also don't have a very flattering body image. I know this is likely because how attractive I am doesn't really matter to me, so when someone tells me I'm attractive, I enjoy the compliment, but I don't exactly understand how I am attractive. I have a hard time showing my physical self off, when doing so would give me a greater advantage. Though, I am improving very slowly with this.

As for words of encouragement, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.

For example, with writing and artwork,

If I see someone looking at work I've created, and their faces clearly show that they are enjoying what they see/read, then I feel much better about the work itself. Telling me what you like and don't like about the work also helps. It shows you're at least analyzing what you see and aren't just making up nice things to say.
 

Goodewitch

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An INFJ without a goal or dream is a very sad sight indeed.:cry:

When I am goaless, drifting in ennui, its very easy to become depressed and down on myself. I see myself as a waste of space on the planet,.. and useless to the world or others.. but heres the thing.. I somehow am comfortable in my low self esteem, because its either this listless aimless wandering, which in its own way feels less pressured, or its striving to complete a goal.
I've decided that its okay to be cynical, I've decided its okay to be 'just here' and doing nothing to earn Brownie points for heaven.
I will never praise myself, or feel competent, but I have taken the pressure from myself to be the perfectonist that I know I am deep down.
To the OP, I'd say, every INFJ that seems down on themselves that you've met, is probably , in some way, taking a rather uncomfortable break from being 'perfect'..(or at least, trying to be)
G. x
 

bronson

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I don't think it's necessarily inferiority that makes her so hard on herself, but more our perfectionism.
Rest assure that she heard that you're impressed with her writing. I tend to shrug off compliments as well, but internally they stick. Knowing that INFJs constantly work on themselves, I think many of us don't easily accept credit as that would be a sign of laziness or contentment. Essentially that might just be what makes us exceptionally good at certain things to begin with.

Man, that is good to know! :thumbup:

Genuine words of encouragement motivate me a little. If I can tell my best friend really likes my work...if i know i'm gonna show him another bit, it sometimes does motivate me to work a little bit harder.
While this failure to self-actualize brings despair to a lot of ppl, infjs are probably more aware of this which just makes it worse. Especially, as others have said, since infjs often have unrealistic expectations...even with enough motivation, you can't be something that is impossible to achieve

Also good to know... I think I am getting something here.

To the OP, I'd say, every INFJ that seems down on themselves that you've met, is probably , in some way, taking a rather uncomfortable break from being 'perfect'..(or at least, trying to be)

So the goals are high (perfection), yet they motivate... so its difficult, but worth it... but the overall difficulty can encourage a feeling of self-insufficiency or something?
 

Goodewitch

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Bronson,..
The goals are high, perfection, for ourselves and ultimately, the expresson of our ideals is to be useful.
We can feel overwhelmed by others needs, yet without a 'job' to do, or someone to help out, i think most INFj's suffer a little self doubt and introspction of the 'what am i here for?' kind.

Some lyrics here from Radioheads 'Creep' sum it up for me personally.
I dont care if it hurts
I wanna have control
I want a perfect body,
I want a perfect soul.

Thats the ideal, the control is not control of others, but over oneself.
Its a tall order, and one that can seem impossible, its easy for some INFJ's to be overwhelmed with their own self expectations.
Plus, we're just a bit Emo kid ish at times too.
You seem like you're really trying to help out your INFJ's.. and thats lovely of you..
Tell you what Bronson.. heres a way to motivate them... tell them you need a bit help with something.. could be any little thing you know they have an aptitude for.
You'll see them heave themselves up out of their introspection to help.
Yup, just give em something to do.
:blush:
G. x
 

Skyward

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Plus, we're just a bit Emo kid ish at times too.

Not to mention we're self conscious about it. We're self conscious about EVERYTHING. It makes it worse since, for me at least, I don't accurately know what people actually notice, so I assume they notice everything. Especially the bad, since I notice the bad more than the good. (Another thing I beat myself up for, idealism hurts, I wouldn't mind some ESxP realism)
 

Ithiluin

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Hmm self-image is hard. Sometimes I feel completely confident but then sometimes, often when I've messed up on something or not accomplished something I wanted to or are remembering something embarrassing from the past, I feel like I'm a horrible, worthless person. I can usually rationalize myself out of it, like I have this underlying idea that I'm a pretty competent person, and I just have to remind myself that everyone is flawed, nobody's perfect and nobody can be, and then I'll be alright. The thing is, if I try to think about it, I can come up with a list of my achievements that make me special, but the feeling is deeper than that. I can just as easily refute my list of accomplishments, reminding myself that everyone else is also just as special and important as me (maybe even a little more, a part of me whispers) and loose track of that deeper feeling, then I'll start to feel bad about being "proud" or "vain" or something and so on and so on. Sometimes, and I don't know what causes this to happen exactly, but I can suddenly, consciously just decide to be confident. Unfortunately, that only works if I have the energy and the inclination to do so.

As for what anyone else can do about it... If someone complements me, and I can tell they really mean it, I am rather surprised but also quite pleased. My confidence lifts unconsciously, but if I start to think about it too hard, I get stuck in overthinking it and "what if they were wrong" mode. If someone I care about, whose opinion I trust, says something nice about me, especially along the lines of "I'm glad we're friends," it makes me amazingly happy. Like warm balloon welling up from my stomach to fill my chest, instant smile, wordlessly happy. But that doesn't mean that after they have left I won't go back to anxiously analyzing myself and wondering what on earth it is that they like about me.

So, I guess another question, after reading through these posts...
Do you think INFJ's (similar to ENFJ's) project a different outward image for others to read than what their true self is experiencing?

ENFJ's project a huge variety of 'masks' mainly for social purposes.
But if the INFJ is doing a similar thing, it possibly seems to be more to hide what is really going on... or even to try and ignore it themselves for a time?

I think INFJ's definitely do that, partly for socializing, when forced to do so, but also to hide our real emotions from anyone we don't want to see them, which is almost everyone most of the time. There're only two people in my life right now that I would really, honestly trust with anything, and even with them, I often don't show all of what I'm feeling, because I don't want to upset them, because I just don't want to be looked at, because it doesn't seem important, because the topic is already changing, because I don't want to have to go through the effort of explaining the entire thing, or from a mysterious compulsion that even I don't understand. I have a bad habit of telling someone what I think they want to hear, but not putting enough energy into it and getting it wrong, then having them disagree with the opinion that isn't actually mine. Also, I think you have a good point about using masks to try to ignore it ourselves; I never really thought about it, but if I'm busy pretending to be happy, I can't be sad, at least, not until I leave. I think maybe it's an Fe thing? Because if our emotions are processed externally, we can't feel them if externally we're pretending they don't exist.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
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The INFJ im dating is not arrogant at all, but serious about conspiracy theories and his music, and super silly with me and the cats.

I was telling him how I've been struggling with hearing critical voices in my head that make me feel ugly stupid and derpy. He reminded me how meditation can give you that universal perspective in which there is no point of view, but everything is being perceived without judgement and just being. I compared it to watching a river that had some rotten leaves and some flowers floating along so the negative conceptions are just passing and don't have to be internalized or define me.

Hardcore Ni-doms can be uber-perceivers that are not as caught up in Fe judgements. Ideally this can lead to a state of mind in which arrogance and self-loathing become meaningless. But then the world intrudes and confuses. :(
 

Froody Blue Gem

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I can relate to the low self esteem thing, stemming from anxiety. I do take pride in what I know, what I can do but it all stems from underlying insecurity. When people pull the rug out from under me, accuse me of being incompetent, this feeds into the ever-growing insecurity that is already there.

I give off vibes of being this way/childlike which certainly doesn't help the situation. There is a fear of not knowing, not being good enough, and not pleasing those who I care about. There are other things it stems from too. There is also some worry about not being in the spot I want to be, not obtaining things that many other people have, and worrying that there is something fundamentally wrong with me.
 

Fidelia

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One difficulty with having Se as a last function is that a lot of infjs are unaware of what factors are affecting mood or how they feel till it's too late:. Considerations like hunger, need for sleep, symptoms of illness, how music is affecting them, feeling discouraged or lonely, need for exercise etc. They live more in their thinking self rather than their body, and so it's easy not to pay attention to those factors unless there's a problem.

There's the perfectionism/idealism issue, and perhaps because ni users pay attention to patterns and extrapolate into the future, often situations that seem distressing or important to them may not be of interest or note to most of the rest of the population because the possible outcome seems merely theoretical, rather than a cause and effect correlation that can be proven in a way that others will believe. That can result in a sense of aloneness.

Being affirmed verbally, having people either share their interests or value things important to the infj (because it feels like accepting them, as their interests and likes are personal to them), spending time with them, wanting to understand them, encouraging them to share even negative things and have conflict without getting too upset (they don't have many listeners as they are often in that role, and they also try to be overly polite about taking up too much emotional space and tend to dislike emotional surprises so it takes a lot of trust to share what they are upset about especially if it involves you), noticing their efforts or trying to make things work for them (creates a feeling of partnership and trust), remembering likes/dislikes (they try to do this for others and feel like it reflects your understanding of or care for them), reflecting to them what their unique skills or role is (that seems to be something they need to comfortably navigate but do to function stack are unsure what is important to others about them or where their niche is) or what you value them for are all ways to encourage infjs.

I don't feel like I'm unhappy or underconfident, although most people aren't close enough to me to hear my less diplomatic or gloomier thoughts. I wouldn't say that infjs universally suffer from bad self image, but are probably fairly sensitive to tone and what isn't said.

They also appear more dependent than some types on having reliable people serve as a mirror to gauge the way they interact with the world and how they are perceived, as well to make a welcome space for them to be themselves. They generally do wish to be known, but won't do it if the person seems disinterested or like they'd react in ways that would create a lot of extra mess to process. Otherwise, I'd say that they are generally fairly open people so long as they trust and like the person.

The necessity of Fe as an aux function to balance Ni and add real life application means that infjs can more easily be manipulated by some people, particularly if those people have been trustworthy or reliable in the past or until there is strong enough objective, rational evidence of negative patterns for infjs to trust their feelings. I think infjs rely on trusted people around them mixed with more casual acquaintances to give them a composite picture of how they appear to others and they seem to need to be heard by someone trusted to process and trust their emotions are valid. It's not that they're doormats, but they do have blindspots about themselves that can't leave them vulnerable to errors in judgement.
 

neko 4

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I think I have self esteem issues, largely because of my chemical mental illness. When you're different, low self esteem often follows. I sometimes wish I had appreciated how cool I was when I was young, especially how good I used to look.
 

Non_xsense

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One difficulty with having Se as a last function is that a lot of infjs are unaware of what factors are affecting mood or how they feel till it's too late:. Considerations like hunger, need for sleep, symptoms of illness, how music is affecting them, feeling discouraged or lonely, need for exercise etc. They live more in their thinking self rather than their body, and so it's easy not to pay attention to those factors unless there's a problem.

There's the perfectionism/idealism issue, and perhaps because ni users pay attention to patterns and extrapolate into the future, often situations that seem distressing or important to them may not be of interest or note to most of the rest of the population because the possible outcome seems merely theoretical, rather than a cause and effect correlation that can be proven in a way that others will believe. That can result in a sense of aloneness.

Being affirmed verbally, having people either share their interests or value things important to the infj (because it feels like accepting them, as their interests and likes are personal to them), spending time with them, wanting to understand them, encouraging them to share even negative things and have conflict without getting too upset (they don't have many listeners as they are often in that role, and they also try to be overly polite about taking up too much emotional space and tend to dislike emotional surprises so it takes a lot of trust to share what they are upset about especially if it involves you), noticing their efforts or trying to make things work for them (creates a feeling of partnership and trust), remembering likes/dislikes (they try to do this for others and feel like it reflects your understanding of or care for them), reflecting to them what their unique skills or role is (that seems to be something they need to comfortably navigate but do to function stack are unsure what is important to others about them or where their niche is) or what you value them for are all ways to encourage infjs.

I don't feel like I'm unhappy or underconfident, although most people aren't close enough to me to hear my less diplomatic or gloomier thoughts. I wouldn't say that infjs universally suffer from bad self image, but are probably fairly sensitive to tone and what isn't said.

They also appear more dependent than some types on having reliable people serve as a mirror to gauge the way they interact with the world and how they are perceived, as well to make a welcome space for them to be themselves. They generally do wish to be known, but won't do it if the person seems disinterested or like they'd react in ways that would create a lot of extra mess to process. Otherwise, I'd say that they are generally fairly open people so long as they trust and like the person.

The necessity of Fe as an aux function to balance Ni and add real life application means that infjs can more easily be manipulated by some people, particularly if those people have been trustworthy or reliable in the past or until there is strong enough objective, rational evidence of negative patterns for infjs to trust their feelings. I think infjs rely on trusted people around them mixed with more casual acquaintances to give them a composite picture of how they appear to others and they seem to need to be heard by someone trusted to process and trust their emotions are valid. It's not that they're doormats, but they do have blindspots about themselves that can't leave them vulnerable to errors in judgement.

Quite frankly grow up , There is alot of concepts of what you said that just apply to western princess ... I don't know any other Ni dom( or second ) that have those problems ( really intj are similar to infj to create ilogical perspectives but they never try to create that pseudo detachment to the world [ cause of Te of course]) .

Really trying to create justifications to ur emotional being make me want to laugh ... specially when you can't create nothing that the world can't understand ( Ni/Ti probabily).
Putting nice words to ur emotionals side doens't make you unique at all ...

Maybe those are simple concepts than any other type resolve quite easily but really ...i guess infj are little princess that they don't nothing about this physical world ( of couse you do ).
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
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Someone asked about possible reasons to explain someone's outlook. I'm offering possibilities, not as a way to excuse shortcomings, but because each type processes information differently and I've appreciated getting some insight into other types' way of looking at the world.

You sound like you have a particular axe to grind with infj types (or people from the western world?).
 

Non_xsense

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Someone asked about possible reasons to explain someone's outlook. I'm offering possibilities, not as a way to excuse shortcomings, but because each type processes information differently and I've appreciated getting some insight into other types' way of looking at the world.

You sound like you have a particular axe to grind with infj types (or people from the western world?).


I was drunk last nite lol.
Well i guess i was a little defensive actually that way of thinking seems alot like Ti-Fe loop which is probabily my worse ... Trying to use Ti to explain complex emotionals states for me that is close to depression .

Actually i find funny that our second funtion is what make us stuck in those loops , For me not using Ne is my worse nightmare ( Being stuck with nothing to learn , nothing to create , without creating new meanings to everything i learned ... i'm just death).

Which made me thinking ... Almost every "sad" infj that i read is talking with some "quasi-Fi" ( i guess this is why infj think they have high Fi ),Tho they see themself as just an abstract subject in a complex emotional system ... They are extremely passive.

Isn't Infj biggest dream using their ideas (Ni) through Theirs Fe ? . I think infj are one of the best to understand others but If They can't use theirs Fe they get stuck In this "quasi-Fi" that is very similar to Ti-Ne loop... but what the fuck i know? I'm a monkey , my avatar is actually my photo.
 
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