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[ENFJ] ENFJ trust

toast

New member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
239
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
2w3
Ever lost trust in a relationship? As in, you can't trust the other party or feel secure, but they aren't actively doing anything to deserve it? (Insecurity comes from events in the past).

How do you get over it? I mean, if they aren't doing anything that would give you reason not to try & trust them again, how do you actually try as an ENFJ? Is it even possible without detaching for a while to separate your feelings from the past & make your Ni shut up?

If anyone has had a situation they feel is comparable or any general advice, please share.
 

Billy

Crazy Diamond
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,192
MBTI Type
INFJ
I am not an ENFJ but I share the same cognitive processes in a slightly different order, and for me, once trust has been killed, the relationship is dead. I never go against my Ni. Every time I have something bad has happened.
 

SpottingTrains

New member
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
444
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
3w2
If they haven't done anything to deserve it, I would slowly start trusting them with small things that you haven't let them in on yet. See how they react, how they handle the information, who they tell ect. If it's positive then just keep slowly letting them in...but if you are getting a really strong indicator that you can't trust this person then maybe you shouldn't be with them (or do you just not trust people in general right now?)?
 

toast

New member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
239
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
2w3
If they haven't done anything to deserve it, I would slowly start trusting them with small things that you haven't let them in on yet. See how they react, how they handle the information, who they tell ect. If it's positive then just keep slowly letting them in...but if you are getting a really strong indicator that you can't trust this person then maybe you shouldn't be with them (or do you just not trust people in general right now?)?

It is a relationship issue. Not so much about trusting him with personal issues or information. It is about him doing things & hiding things that he knows would upset me which are not acceptable in our relationship (for him or for me). He has done this in the past, but never revealed them to me, even when I gave him the opportunity by voicing my suspicions. I discovered them. I don't feel like he is doing those things currently. But I'm not sure how to keep myself from thinking about them happening in the future. I trust his intentions now, but not his self control or how much his feelings for me impact his self control. So I feel like I can't trust that he won't do those things again & have a reason to hide from me. I feel like not trusting him might lead him to feel like hiding from me though, & if he deserves it. I feel like he deserves it. I just don't know how to have it.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,429
MBTI Type
eNFJ
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I am not an ENFJ but I share the same cognitive processes in a slightly different order, and for me, once trust has been killed, the relationship is dead. I never go against my Ni. Every time I have something bad has happened.

Seconded. We may be civilized and even friendly, but they're dead to me.
 

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,908
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
Ever lost trust in a relationship? As in, you can't trust the other party or feel secure, but they aren't actively doing anything to deserve it? (Insecurity comes from events in the past).

How do you get over it? I mean, if they aren't doing anything that would give you reason not to try & trust them again, how do you actually try as an ENFJ? Is it even possible without detaching for a while to separate your feelings from the past & make your Ni shut up?

If anyone has had a situation they feel is comparable or any general advice, please share.

I don't think this situation is type related at all. I do think if you're projecting issues from past relationships on your current one...bad. This person is not the past person and you need to deal with that and not wallow in it and use it as an excuse. If your current relationship gives you reasons to not trust, depending on what that it, you need to examine why you are still in the relationship.
 

toast

New member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
239
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
2w3
I don't think this situation is type related at all. I do think if you're projecting issues from past relationships on your current one...bad. This person is not the past person and you need to deal with that and not wallow in it and use it as an excuse. If your current relationship gives you reasons to not trust, depending on what that it, you need to examine why you are still in the relationship.

It is the same person... but a unique situation. Its not that he really changed. He just eventually cared. He was very very slow to commit or even affirm our relationship... and a couple of times when I was sure we were exclusive, he did things (that would've hurt him severely if I had done them to him) to remind me we weren't. Each time I reacted to it & said it wasn't acceptable to me, he did something less severe, but still "testing." This continued until all my "requirements" for being in a relationship with him were spoken. Then he stopped & affirmed that he wanted to be with me, we were exclusive & he wasn't going to do anything anymore that he wouldn't want me doing. So he doesn't do the things he used to do that hurt me when we weren't as serious. But now that we are trying for something real I have trouble not being triggered by things that remind me of what he did back then... and subsequently fearing he will do things like that again. You see, after each time he hurt me he feigned ignorance or said he "didn't know why" he did it. Like it was some lapse in judgment. He would never outright admit that he was testing me or that we weren't really "together" in his eyes. So now my worry seems to be fueled by the idea that he could have some relapse into old habits.

I am with him because I adore him. When things are good they are amazing. And I know now that he loves me & truly wants to be with me. Ever loved almost everything about someone except how they showed love back? He's very subtle, and it can seem cold, distant & even deceptive at times (because sometimes I feel like he hides from me). I think it is just who he is (ISTP), I do know for several reasons that regardless of the past I am extremely important to him & he loves me very much, but our incompatibility in how we communicate & our past makes for very shaky ground with this whole trust thing.
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
Are you not testing him too?



I have wondered about complete dual relationships, wondering if they don't need a great deal more trust and outright simple love than other dualities just because the differing strengths of the people are so differing. Where one wants to be strong and worries very much about being weak, the partner is naturally strong, and one has the same role for the partner's weaknesses too. Thus, presumably one is required to have a great deal of faith.



And the Lord Jung did frown upon the Land, for here was an INTJ proffering relationship advice. Pigs sang, cows flew. Much was upside down.
 

Heinel

New member
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
337
MBTI Type
TiSe
Enneagram
5w4
And the Lord Jung did frown upon the Land, for here was an INTJ proffering relationship advice. Pigs sang, cows flew. Much was upside down.

I bit the bait too, let's put the blame on ENFJs' ability to influence? =P

I wonder about duality as well. The type dynamics made it sound like it couldn't possibly be better, but after all, we are still dealing with someone who is from another planet. Where does the confidence come from?
 

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,908
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
It is the same person... but a unique situation. Its not that he really changed. He just eventually cared. He was very very slow to commit or even affirm our relationship... and a couple of times when I was sure we were exclusive, he did things (that would've hurt him severely if I had done them to him) to remind me we weren't. Each time I reacted to it & said it wasn't acceptable to me, he did something less severe, but still "testing." This continued until all my "requirements" for being in a relationship with him were spoken. Then he stopped & affirmed that he wanted to be with me, we were exclusive & he wasn't going to do anything anymore that he wouldn't want me doing. So he doesn't do the things he used to do that hurt me when we weren't as serious. But now that we are trying for something real I have trouble not being triggered by things that remind me of what he did back then... and subsequently fearing he will do things like that again. You see, after each time he hurt me he feigned ignorance or said he "didn't know why" he did it. Like it was some lapse in judgment. He would never outright admit that he was testing me or that we weren't really "together" in his eyes. So now my worry seems to be fueled by the idea that he could have some relapse into old habits.

I am with him because I adore him. When things are good they are amazing. And I know now that he loves me & truly wants to be with me. Ever loved almost everything about someone except how they showed love back? He's very subtle, and it can seem cold, distant & even deceptive at times (because sometimes I feel like he hides from me). I think it is just who he is (ISTP), I do know for several reasons that regardless of the past I am extremely important to him & he loves me very much, but our incompatibility in how we communicate & our past makes for very shaky ground with this whole trust thing.

Your inability to communicate is what is going to kill your relationship. Period. Doesn't matter how much love and adoration is there. Communication is the key to trusting someone (ok well, actions count a great deal here but you still have to open your mouth and speak). If it were me and I was still feeling that unsure about it, I would step back, simmer down, access the situation and start talking. If he won't communicate as well, on the same level and of the same amount, buh-bye. It just won't work.
 

PoprocksAndCoke

A Benign Tumor
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
614
MBTI Type
ENTP
I can't stay angry with people for long. If I lose trust, I lose trust. To me, the relationship's over until trust is earned back, but I don't break up with the person unless they've lost trust in me.
 

toast

New member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
239
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
2w3
It is so much like being from different planets. Every reaction I have to the world moves in the exact opposite process from his. I can almost never read him with certainty. I know without a doubt this relationship won't last without some measure of faith. When it comes to life in general, we are quite compatible. His strengths are my weaknesses & visa versa. He makes me see myself & the world in unfamiliar ways, pushes me to to things I would never have done without him. I can't tell you how much he's grown since we've been friends. But in an intimate relationship, where the vulnerabilities lie, that's where he will never naturally give me what I need & I will do exactly the same... cover him with everything that's trivial & shallow to him & deprive him of what he needs to thrive. Unless we actively remember this & choose to appreciate the love we are getting & try to love each other from time to time on the other's terms. I know we can do that. I do not know if he will.

It is not enough to "accept" that he can't love me like I would love him & convince myself to feel loved by his intentions. Though it is valuable & necessary to keep going, it only works up to a point. I tried for so long to tell myself that I just needed to realize how he showed his love to me & I would feel loved. I am only realizing now that there are real needs everyone has that simply can't be ignored. I know that he doesn't know how to give me those things. But telling him that is not easy.

Your inability to communicate is what is going to kill your relationship. Period. Doesn't matter how much love and adoration is there. Communication is the key to trusting someone (ok well, actions count a great deal here but you still have to open your mouth and speak). If it were me and I was still feeling that unsure about it, I would step back, simmer down, access the situation and start talking. If he won't communicate as well, on the same level and of the same amount, buh-bye. It just won't work.

I understand this too. I have talked & talked & talked. It is so difficult to find a place where I can feel safe to talk & he can feel safe listening. It has only happened a handful of times. This is where the source of my pain really lies, because I am a talker... its how I find security & resolution... and sometimes I simply don't have the strength to talk to him. It can be so destructive if it isn't delivered carefully.

Here is an illustration of my whole experience with this relationship... I got upset over us today for a little bit. When he eventually did try to comfort me he said in an uncharacteristically bold manner "we'll get through this, together." I know he was being sincere. He was holding me, he was very patient with me. I appreciate all that so much. So I picked myself up, started to feel better, went & spent time with him. But I don't believe he knows what he's talking about. I don't think he has any idea what the problem really is. He just thinks if he's "good" to me, it'll pass. But the problem is, his "good to me" isn't mine. He doesn't actually know what's missing in how he treats me that's keeping me from thriving. And he is pretty darn happy... with the exception of my moods, he is satisfied. But he wasn't until I spent a great deal of effort figuring out what he needs from me.

I am actually feeling somewhat better about this though, because he has made some efforts & made some sacrifices (that are very obvious) to show he wants me to feel secure with him. I feel like patience is half the problem. He asked me to give him a list of things that I look for in our relationship that I don't find. I'm just going to give him a list of things he could do to make me feel more secure & happy. But I have this feeling he won't do anything with that list. If I could just hold on & let him be than maybe he would.
 
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