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[MBTI General] NFJ intensity...What are the differences between E and I?

Nyx

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I was just reading PinkPiranha's thread in the NF private forum "Frustrated ENFJ" and it really got me thinking. A lot of the posts were talking about NFJ's intensity. I had never really thought about my intensity in regards to other people until I read this, and found myself relating to a lot of what was being said. I don't see myself as intensely guarded. I am fairly quick to share how I feel with people so long as I feel a connection with them in some way. When I was younger I would say I was a definite NFJ, though I think I was on the border with E and I most of the time, if not a bit more E much of the time. As I have gotten older I am decidedly an I, though I can be very extroverted in certain situations... it mostly depends on my mood. If I'm happy and comfortable I will seem like an E, though when under stress or a melancholic/pensive mood (which has been my predominant mood for the past couple years), I withdraw and become quite introverted.

One thing I am sure of is my intensity in friendships and relationships. I think it really scares people sometimes. I quickly get to deep subjects and show my excitement easily. Those who know me well can tell what kind of mood I am just by being around me, and many times (especially in one on one situations) my mood can manifest and set an overall tone for the situation. I have also had many people comment on my animated demeanor when talking, and easy excitement. When I express an emotion I really express it. Is this typical of an introverted NFJ?

How does E or I make Ni and Fe manifest differently? I am almost entirely sure I am an Introvert...do other INFJs find themselves seemingly extroverted when they are in happy, comfortable situations? And NFJs in general...how do people react to your intensity? What do they say? I am not sure what types this attracts, but there is a definitely a certain kind of person it unnerves, and some just find it draining.
 

Skyward

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I have a 'Frustrated INFJ' thread. It's kind of gave her the idea for the name of her thread.

I'm a strong Ni type INFJ, so I don't usually follow the normal 'intensity' of NFs. A lot of it comes from being a male. It is socially awkward for a man to express intensity so I just keep it inside until I am with people who don't give me a ':shock:' look when I express myself.

I think my intensity is just an internal whirlwind that reacts to how people react to me. If they react in a way I think is negative, I feel worse, or if things flow well and up-beat, I feel better about it. My Fe is almost a pseudo Fi since expressing it tends to be awkward. Thankfully, I have been learning to stop caring about how people react to my expression of self, and have been learning ways to express myself well without being rude or annoying.

I think ENFJs just feel things muuuuch more strongly than I do. They're 'emotionally cold-blooded' and need to have good surroundings in order to feel good. Things seem to amplify within them, too, leading to their intensity.

To be honest, I don't know much about ENFJs besides theory.
 

tibby

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Interesting question. I'm definately animated and my mood can be read from me very easily. When I'm expressing how I feel (when I feel something strongly) I can't just be, I need to move, jump, run, do, go, and it's very open, it just needs outlets, expression. But I guess the difference might be that for an infj as an introvert this is more occasional and as soon as it passes by it's ni and ti taking charge again, holding the reign and needing time to detach and analyze. Enfj probably needs it too but where to the full emotional displays are to infj the detachment is to enfjs?

I'm not being very clear because I'm not really sure if I even know what I'm talking about here. :laugh: I guard stuff _a lot_. Introvert thinking before saying. In brief occasions like Fe explosion it just goes right out the window. With enfj maybe it's a lot more out in the open they seem like they're not as much in hiding probably.

All I know is the energy's there and it needs to come out, it's like lava boiling in my veins. I think I'd be a lot more outwardly demonstrative => intense if I wasn't so self-conscious, so an I basically! But then again when I'm on a different mode alltogether... I can't fake it, I can't fake anything, I can turn cold in an instant because I'm simply not feeling it anymore, I'm in my head, with a "not here" sign glued to my expressionless face.

How do people react to it? I'mm not sure. I've heard "dramatic" from an estj and know the same estj to consider an enfj as dramatic too. I find it intriguing and a bit scary. It's somehow so powerful, in both nfj's, it's like having a rubberloaded rifle next to you shooting and building more inertia as they go. But it's contagious and exciting to me.


This prolly ain't very helpful :D
 

Nyx

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Interesting question. I'm definately animated and my mood can be read from me very easily. When I'm expressing how I feel (when I feel something strongly) I can't just be, I need to move, jump, run, do, go, and it's very open, it just needs outlets, expression. But I guess the difference might be that for an infj as an introvert this is more occasional and as soon as it passes by it's ni and ti taking charge again, holding the reign and needing time to detach and analyze. Enfj probably needs it too but where to the full emotional displays are to infj the detachment is to enfjs?

I'm not being very clear because I'm not really sure if I even know what I'm talking about here. :laugh: I guard stuff _a lot_. Introvert thinking before saying. In brief occasions like Fe explosion it just goes right out the window. With enfj maybe it's a lot more out in the open they seem like they're not as much in hiding probably.

All I know is the energy's there and it needs to come out, it's like lava boiling in my veins. I think I'd be a lot more outwardly demonstrative => intense if I wasn't so self-conscious, so an I basically! But then again when I'm on a different mode alltogether... I can't fake it, I can't fake anything, I can turn cold in an instant because I'm simply not feeling it anymore, I'm in my head, with a "not here" sign glued to my expressionless face.

How do people react to it? I'mm not sure. I've heard "dramatic" from an estj and know the same estj to consider an enfj as dramatic too. I find it intriguing and a bit scary. It's somehow so powerful, in both nfj's, it's like having a rubberloaded rifle next to you shooting and building more inertia as they go. But it's contagious and exciting to me.


This prolly ain't very helpful :D

au contraire! I found that very helpful! That makes sense. INFJs are mostly detached with a Ni-Ti axis but need to have the Fe breakthroughs where ENFJs form a Fe-Se axis and have Ni breakthroughs. Interesting...
I have gotten dramatic many times from Ts... haha
 
P

Phantonym

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I am an extreme case of an I, as it seems. But it also depends greatly on my mood. In my neutral mode I am very self-conscious and I have extreme self-control when I'm in the public. If I'm not comfortable around people, they get nothing but polite reserve from me. I'm seemingly like a steel wall to outside observers. I rarely express any other emotion othar than a faint smile to strangers or people I'm not close to. Now, what happens inside is a whole different story. And occasionally I let it out and people don't know what hit them. When I'm in a very good mood and I get excited, I'm also very animated when talking. You can imagine fire bursting from my eyes. :D If I'm tired, I'm usually in a bad mood and it shows very well.

With people I feel comfortable with, I can definitely be an E for a while. I'm the idea generator, the "Let's go and do this, this and this. NOW!" person. I draw energy from the people around me and give it back a hundred times over. My family and friends are already used to my frequent mood swings, so they usually have "the look" and rolling the eyes thing going on.
 

istina

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do other INFJs find themselves seemingly extroverted when they are in happy, comfortable situations?

Oh, absolutely. Like you, I spent most of my childhood balanced between E/I, but became more of an introvert when I got older. If I'm with a comfortable group, I can be with them hours and hours and hours and feel no need to recharge. It's only with a group I don't know very well or a group I don't feel I'll ever really be close to that I feel the need to withdraw. I doubt I could go a full day being completely without people.

Maybe our Fe is as high as our Ni? I have no idea.
 

WieldingTheSword

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au contraire! I found that very helpful! That makes sense. INFJs are mostly detached with a Ni-Ti axis but need to have the Fe breakthroughs where ENFJs form a Fe-Se axis and have Ni breakthroughs. Interesting...
I have gotten dramatic many times from Ts... haha

Yes.
 

OrangeAppled

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I don't find ENFJs intense, but I think Fe can make some people feel smothered. ENFJs can also seem more...."dramatic" than ESFJs. Not more emotional, just their word choices or whatever add some level of intensity. I think it's the NF lean towards a romanticist attitude. Everything's a little more poetic.

INFJs seem intense in a narrower, condensed sort of way. If you get them talking, they dive into whatever philosophical thoughts they have very quickly. I knew an INFJ online who would talk about soccer in a poetic way :huh:. Every discussion felt like he was practicing for writing a novel or something.
That seems intense to most people. To an INFP, it's just like "this person is awesome!".
 

cascadeco

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I think my intensity is just an internal whirlwind that reacts to how people react to me. If they react in a way I think is negative, I feel worse, or if things flow well and up-beat, I feel better about it.

I really relate to this. I am the same way.

Sky Is Blue! said:
I am an extreme case of an I, as it seems. But it also depends greatly on my mood. In my neutral mode I am very self-conscious and I have extreme self-control when I'm in the public. If I'm not comfortable around people, they get nothing but polite reserve from me. I'm seemingly like a steel wall to outside observers. I rarely express any other emotion othar than a faint smile to strangers or people I'm not close to. Now, what happens inside is a whole different story. And occasionally I let it out and people don't know what hit them. When I'm in a very good mood and I get excited, I'm also very animated when talking. You can imagine fire bursting from my eyes. If I'm tired, I'm usually in a bad mood and it shows very well.

:yes:

I've never been called dramatic/overly emotional or anything like that, and I think it is due to my introversion, as well as the fact that I tend to do a lot of thinking/pondering (jumping right to Ti) before speaking, so I can nullify the emotional content half the time. I know this isn't an INFJ thing across the board, though, because one of my INFJ friends is much more extroverted than I, and more apt to express her feelings/opinions rather than whittle them down, analyze them, or tuck them away, and *I* consider her to be rather dramatic at times. ;) I mean, I don't think it's a bad thing, just in comparison to me, she is.

But, yeah, even if I'm not speaking/extroverting my emotions, I think my emotional state can be pretty apparent to those who know me well - they'll be able to tell if I'm irritable, unhappy, excited, bored, etc. [Although when at work or around strangers, I think I can do a decent job of masking even that, if I need to.] With my more negative temporary emotions, though, I tend not to want to subject others to any of it, so I tend to keep it to myself. Occasionally I really need an outlet, though, especially when I'm spinning my wheels or can't figure something out on my own or need additional input/thoughts, and that would be a trusted friend. But when I'm really excited or happy, I have no problem making that very evident to everyone, and I do become very animated and, dare I say...almost chatty. :smile:
 

the state i am in

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4s are more Fe than 5s. 5s are more Ti than 4s. i'm still waiting for more infj types. the so-called 1s and the 6s. i only know one infj 9w1. she's really nice and not half as pushy as us 4s and 5s. i'd also like to see a 4w3 (if they exist).

enfj 3w2s are less moody, 7s even less. enfj 4s are highly explosive. 2w1s are pretty easily overdrawn and can get seriously down. 3w4s are intentionally difficult (ie "i don't even allow myself to see who i really am, you may think you see me but you CANT!"). 1w2 would be the most vigilant. i'm still waiting to see an 8.
 

Lily Bart

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I think my youngest daughter (10) is an INFJ, although it's too early to tell. She is the most intense, willful, manipulative, independent, moody, difficult child I've ever run into. (She's also unbelievably sweet and affectionate--I love her dearly). I really had to change my parenting style to deal with her, although it's still a struggle. A friend has a daughter who's in college now who I also think is INFJ, and my friend tells me that she was also a holy terror as a child and that she had to get very, very tough with her. I was pretty shocked when she told me this because the girl is very easy-going and well-mannered now. Where I'm going with all this is that I'm guessing that most INFJ's are very, very intense as young children, but parents and the community come down pretty hard on these poor kids and pretty much discipline the life out of them. My parents were very strict disciplinarians with me -- much more so than I ever was with my kids. It would be great if all this energy and intelligence could be channeled more creatively, but I know with my own child I'd never have time or energy for anything else.
 

Tikka

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Good question. I recognise myself so much in all the ENFJ descriptions, yet people keep placing me in the Introvert category.

I have a thing for drama though, and I can use very poetic, bombastic sentences or allegories when talking.
 

mwv6r

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I think my youngest daughter (10) is an INFJ, although it's too early to tell. She is the most intense, willful, manipulative, independent, moody, difficult child I've ever run into. (She's also unbelievably sweet and affectionate--I love her dearly). I really had to change my parenting style to deal with her, although it's still a struggle. A friend has a daughter who's in college now who I also think is INFJ, and my friend tells me that she was also a holy terror as a child and that she had to get very, very tough with her. I was pretty shocked when she told me this because the girl is very easy-going and well-mannered now. Where I'm going with all this is that I'm guessing that most INFJ's are very, very intense as young children, but parents and the community come down pretty hard on these poor kids and pretty much discipline the life out of them. My parents were very strict disciplinarians with me -- much more so than I ever was with my kids. It would be great if all this energy and intelligence could be channeled more creatively, but I know with my own child I'd never have time or energy for anything else.


I can't pretend to be an expert on INFJs because other than myself I don't really know many out in the wild, hehe. But I will say that that description doesn't sound like my childhood experience at all. I was quiet, daydreamy, extremely sensitive, and very eager to please. The type profiles I've read about INFJ children seem to back that up - they're sensitive dreamers rather than dramatic firecrackers. Is it possible these children are ENFJs? I feel like I read a lot of accounts of INFJs on this forum that to me sound more like ENFJs. That's just my two cents though...
 

Nyx

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I am now almost 100% sure I was an ENFJ as a kid. I was a handful. During my elementary school years I attended a parochial school and I was constantly getting into trouble. I had detention, writing lines, and time spent in the principles office from grades K-5. I even drove my teacher to the point of crying in kindergarten. I was a very sweet child though. I suppose my behavior was way very dramatic as a kid. I also can recall being much more of a typical "J" when I was younger, very neat and organized. When I made the switch from private to public school in sixth grade (sadly coinciding with the beginning of puberty) it was very traumatizing, as I was also moving far away from my friends. Subsequent family issues caused a personality change in me, I became more introverted. Around my sophomore year in high school I noticed a dramatic change in my personality because my Ti had developed rapidly. This caused me to think I was an INTP for a while, but after I took a functions test, I realized my dominant function was Ni. Now that I am older the Ti has settled out, and my first three functions are the usual INFJ order of Ni, Fe, Ti... I don't know if this is from getting older, or because of things that happened in the past have effected me in ways to caused an extreme development of Ti, thus creating a Ni-Ti axis, and outshining the Fe. My function order was definitely Fe, Ni, Se as a kid because I was very much into physical things, namely dance, gymnastics (training at an Olympics caliber gym, ascending to high levels) and theatre. I also recall being very outgoing as far as volunteering to demonstrate things or help people, or public speaking (I won the DARE award for best anti-drug essay in fifth grade and had to read it in front of the class/parents...super cool ;) and I also used always sign up to do readings for church. )Fe was always first, but Ni would lead itself to its interesting bouts of detachment and reflection/creativity. Now, as an INFJ, I am prone to a melancholic and detached contemplative mood with bursts of Fe here and there. I could not really call myself happy at this point.

Has anyone ever had this dramatic change in personality? All of my family members have noted the change in my personality from being happy and outgoing child to a quiet and serious young adult.
 

the state i am in

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i was extremely energetic and very judgy as a kid. i would run around non-stop. then in high school i got very tired and burnt out and withdrawn. i was much more open and emotionally engaged when i was young. as i got older i actually developed Ti more than Fe at first in terms of an active problem solving function. but it just helped me realize what was actually there with Ni, opened up my imagination and allowed me to start mapping shit with more conscious awareness. then i became really imaginative and goofy. my best friend growing up told me i skipped my childhood (somewhere between grades 6-12). but my imagination now constantly overflows like a child's tub who won't turn off the bathtub faucet. i can still seem very serious at times, but much of the time i am also lighter than air. if i had been less conscientious or less able to float by in school, i might have been able to pry an add diagnosis out of my doctor. it was always scattered scattered bam 1000% focus. i demanded energy and constant attention out of those around me as a result.
 

boondocked

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Has anyone ever had this dramatic change in personality? All of my family members have noted the change in my personality from being happy and outgoing child to a quiet and serious young adult.

My brother had an even more drastic change, from clear ESTP to clear INFP. It was, in every way, a whiplash. He's been INFP for a few years now, and loves it. So yeah, I do think personality shifts can happen, despite what the literature says.

!!

Whether you turn out to be an I or and E (and I'd guess an E), you are lucky to be an NFJ! Every NFJ I know is ball 'o fire. I really admire the intensity!
 

mwv6r

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Interesting. I guess it's easy for me to assume most INFJs have similar childhood behaviors as I did but that's obviously not the case. Sounds like there were some rough and rowdy INFJ kiddos out there.

As a child and now, my experience has been that around the vast majority of people I am quiet, mild-mannered, and accommodating. A small circle of friends sees my goofy, zany, opinionated side. And then usually only my romantic partner sees the real me, which can be very playful, rambunctious, demonstratively affectionate, and hot-tempered. I guess that's me channeling my inner ENFJ with the person I love. I have to admit, he's called me a drama queen on more than one occasion, hehe. I can definitely be a handful in a relationship, although I like to think my positive traits outweigh that ;o)
 

Siúil a Rúin

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My intensity is turned inwards. I'm rather laid back externally, but have a couple areas of intense inner struggles which I could do without. Here's an example, I tend to be too laid back about evaluating other people on tests and papers, but for myself I will study like a crazy woman until I get it right. Or I am accommodating for others who mess up in a performance, but have trouble being easy on myself. I realize this makes no sense and I work to resolve it by viewing myself from the outside. It's almost like I forget I'm a person.

Edit: It occurred to me the commonality between making allowances for other, but exhausting every avenue of preparation for myself. Both are trying to cover all possible bases. For other people I know I can't know every detail of their experience or why they might act in a certain way or fail a test. I know there can be compelling reasons and I want to operate in a way that can accommodate all possibilities. For my own interfacing with the outside world, I need to know that I did everything I could to prepare, so if I am berated for something, I have accounted for it by knowing that I left no stone unturned. The problem is when I forget that there are compelling reasons why I fall short and to have more patience with myself even when I am not conscious of every detail of it.

As a child I was obedient and felt a great deal of responsibility. I remember being babysat at age 5 as the only girl, so the lady gave me her daughter's doll to play with. I was afraid to touch it. I sort of played with it, but didn't want to do anything to harm it because it wasn't mine. When 13 - 15 I would help my mother work her summer labor jobs to help earn money. I went to a strict religious boarding school as a teenager and was intensely lonely and would spend my time sitting by a stream near a cornfield whenever I could get away. I wasn't outgoing enough to experience peer pressure. I obeyed their rules because I hate getting yelled at, but felt oppressed by it. I never caused any trouble, and was "good" to an unhealthy degree actually. I internalized everything instead. I spent most of my time escaping into my imagination especially when going on school outings since I was usually by myself. I would reinterpret everything around me based on an imagined scenario and would sometimes have a good time that way.
 

cascadeco

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Edit: It occurred to me the commonality between making allowances for other, but exhausting every avenue of preparation for myself. Both are trying to cover all possible bases. For other people I know I can't know every detail of their experience or why they might act in a certain way or fail a test. I know there can be compelling reasons and I want to operate in a way that can accommodate all possibilities. For my own interfacing with the outside world, I need to know that I did everything I could to prepare, so if I am berated for something, I have accounted for it by knowing that I left no stone unturned. The problem is when I forget that there are compelling reasons why I fall short and to have more patience with myself even when I am not conscious of every detail of it.

I too am much more accommodating and forgiving and accepting towards others than I am of myself; I have always been extremely self-critical and disciplined. In many cases it isn't really a bad thing..I push myself, I want to grow, I am all about personal accountability and will always own up when I did something wrong. Of course since I don't want things to go wrong, that's why I'm always prepared and have contingencies and all of that. Downside is obviously I fling a lot of internal self-abuse, at times, at myself; typically not related to skills/external things, but more having to do with my own personality, interactions with other people, am I handling things right, am I mis-reading something, blah blah, etc. :) I think I'm getting better at stopping the self-judgment cycle in recent years, but it still comes and goes. I really go into over-analysis mode sometimes regarding my own psychae, such that I am rarely fully 'free' outwardly - I have so many internal checks and layers and questions that it prohibits a more spontaneous showing of myself, as I for some reason tend to think I shouldn't have any weaknesses - that I need to eliminate all weaknesses/'bad' traits.

As a child I was obedient and felt a great deal of responsibility. I remember being babysat at age 5 as the only girl, so the lady gave me her daughter's doll to play with. I was afraid to touch it. I sort of played with it, but didn't want to do anything to harm it because it wasn't mine. When 13 - 15 I would help my mother work her summer labor jobs to help earn money. I went to a strict religious boarding school as a teenager and was intensely lonely and would spend my time sitting by a stream near a cornfield whenever I could get away. I wasn't outgoing enough to experience peer pressure. I obeyed their rules because I hate getting yelled at, but felt oppressed by it. I never caused any trouble, and was "good" to an unhealthy degree actually. I internalized everything instead. I spent most of my time escaping into my imagination especially when going on school outings since I was usually by myself. I would reinterpret everything around me based on an imagined scenario and would sometimes have a good time that way.

I didn't cause any problems whatsoever. Definitely not a problem child, didn't act out, was a model student, didn't want to be the source of any conflict or argument. And finally, kept my entire inner world to myself such that virtually all of it never saw the light of day, and my family/friends knew pretty much nothing about me other than the fact that I was quiet and 'sweet', being nice to them.
 
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