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[Ni] The pain of Ni in a male INFJ

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
This "girls like jerks" thing is complete bullshit. People seem to be unconsciously attracted to certain kinds of people (not MBTI types, things like bad boy, nerd etc), and what will satisfy a lot of people is very different. Everyone has a certain sort of person that they will like, and everyone has a match somewhere. And please don't take that literally on purpose just to piss me off, I'm sure you know what I'm trying to get to.

Anyways, as for your friend's feelings, I'd say that he shouldn't torture himself with what he could have done, and just attempt to move on. The girl seems to want to have some form of physical contact to try to get over her previous relationship (from the limited information that I have), and if your friend didn't want a rebound then he made the right decision. He should still stay in contact with the girl. If she becomes available and isn't going to use him as a rebound, he should go for it. He shouldn't waste his time worrying about something he can't change.

My suggestion would be for him to talk it out with his close confidants. He should also find another girl to start talking to. Just my experience, when I'm going through bad times I have talked to my confidants about my issue, and I've also talked to another girl. For some reason, it just helps to do that for me, and for the people I've advised about this sort of thing.

Also, believe me. I know what I'm talking about. My best friend is an INFJ. The thing that helped my friend the most was talking to me and a few others that he held close, to distract himself in some way, and to talk to another girl or other girls. From doing this he's getting over his last relationship, that was very serious. It was 2 years with an ISTJ, and things didn't work out (wasn't a type problem, she had some psychological problems). He recently started talking to another girl, and they like each other. I also spend a good amount of time talking to him and hanging out. Your friend would appreciate your support I'm sure.
 

Billy

Crazy Diamond
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,192
MBTI Type
INFJ
Oh? I guess I really am mistaken about the definition then. I would have another term for a guy you're describing and that wouldn't be nice at all. Silly me for thinking that nice guys actually are...nice.

Most people if not all people are nice to a degree. A guy who lets himself get used as a door stop isnt "nice" hes spineless.
 

Billy

Crazy Diamond
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,192
MBTI Type
INFJ
Sorry Billy, you've been disqualified of the title of an INFJ.

Oh shit, again? Damn... How ever will I live if people cant square me into a nice tidy box? I guess I will just be an ISTJ is that better?
 

Billy

Crazy Diamond
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,192
MBTI Type
INFJ
Why would someone defend what you describe? They wouldn't. They don't share your definition.

Those aren't the only two options, right? Guys who pretend to be nice and guys who are demonstrably not nice, but better because they aren't pretending?

I think it is entirely possible that the guy in the OP is actually a nice guy.

I dont know why people defend them, but they do because

A. the nice guy isnt being up front and honest with his motivations
B. People like to get hung up on the word "nice"
C. People are morons.
 

Billy

Crazy Diamond
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,192
MBTI Type
INFJ
That's kind of an ironic term for it, then.

I always assumed that term was about bashing guys for having a nice, considerate personality instead of being tough, assertive jerks.

So the term "nice guy" refers to a guy who is dishonest about his intentions?

Precisely, in the world of dating I try to use more general terms preferably because it simplifies things.

Any man who is confident, decent, generous, sensitive, and kind is usually seen as just a regular guy or a guy who is cool or a guy you want to date.

The guys who bend over backwards to spend all day snuggling with a girl they like, doing her homework, solving her problems, giving her money, etc etc are NOT confident men who bring a lot to the dating equation. The are like love sick puppies, they are "nice guys". its why they say nice guys finish last.

Any man who will act a fool and give and give and give without ever telling the woman he actually has a romantic interest in her is a sucker and a punk.

He is the male equivalent of a female who sleeps around to make a man like her. Luckily for her she can get laid, while the nice guys go on with blue balls.

I am trying to find a really funny comic I saw about it one time.

Essentially I have 2 problems with the nice guys as I see them

1. They are pathetic, any man who gives up the milk for free without a commitment to the woman he is spending all his time on is an idiot.

2. Its not honest, I see it more as a form of trickey. Spoiling a woman and then acting like you just want to be her friend and then flying off the handle when she ends up dating some "asshole"

Asshole as defined by a nice guy = "the guy who swept in on the nice guys "girl" and took her away without being well... nice like the nice guy.

Any man who is kind, confident and good, should just be seen as a MAN, not a nice guy. We dont have to qualify true good intentions with a word like nice, men are supposed to be that way, and if they aren't then they aren't men.
 

Billy

Crazy Diamond
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,192
MBTI Type
INFJ
Agreed. However the problem remains that more girls will fall for the jerk front than they will for the kindhearted guys. This in itself will be enough for them to remain a jerk, since it simply has a higher success rate.

Since this is the case, they will probably continue to justify their behavior with the same logic, even if their argument has crumbled with the existence of real nice guys. Being kindhearted is also misunderstood as simply being a doormat, perhaps under the same train of thought that you pointed out.

This subjective logic is quite inconvenient for the nice people out there because those that indulge themselves in it will always continue to rationalize their behavior in such a way, and always leave the nice guys with the short straws.

Seems I'm pretty pessimistic, lol

Getting girls isnt rocket science.

If you are

1. Good looking
2. Rich

you got your foot in the door already. If you are not then all you have to have is:

1. Self respect and dignity. Dont do something against your code women will respect that.
2. Something going on. kind or not, if you are a dud youre a dud. Get a job, get a career started and start preparing for the future. Women like men who aren't sitting around in their parents homes whining about why they cant afford the latest call of duty.
3.Have confidence for the love of god, women dont like ASSHOLES they like men who are CONFIDENT. I swear to hell, everyone already knows this but some people are too flawed emotionally to be able to exude any form of confidence, they usually become "nice guys" and never get laid ever.

Do those 3 things and you will have a woman I promise.
 

Kra

Black Magic Buzzard
Joined
Jun 24, 2009
Messages
912
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
4w5
Your story leads me to believe that he would have been heartbroken eventually, even if they got together...

She's fresh out of one relationship, and already jonesin' for another. - red flag

She jumps into bed with his friend as soon as he's not willing to go as fast as she'd like. - red flag

No offense meant, but I'm just calling them as I see them. :D
 

nzAShadow

New member
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
64
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w1
Your story leads me to believe that he would have been heartbroken eventually, even if they got together...

She's fresh out of one relationship, and already jonesin' for another. - red flag

She jumps into bed with his friend as soon as he's not willing to go as fast as she'd like. - red flag

No offense meant, but I'm just calling them as I see them. :D

That's actually exactly what I told him, ha

No offense taken
 

nzAShadow

New member
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Feb 17, 2008
Messages
64
MBTI Type
INFP
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That's what he intends on doing, but somewhat difficult cause she hangs around his friends, and the main problem is he won't stop thinking about it.
 

Mad Hatter

Head Pigeon
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Nov 3, 2009
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1,087
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For the time being, the best bit of advice I can give to him is (and for the sake of my own personal laziness, I use the second person): Open yourself for other people.
The way I see it (although that's only a vague assumption since I don't have any further information) is that you've still got some sense of loyalty towards the girl. I've been there myself, and it really sucks.
It sucks because it's in fact false loyalty. Not in the sense that the feeling isn't genuine (which I believe it is), but because the loyalty is towards some idealized conception of the girl you have in mind. That conception needs to be adapted.
My advice is: Go see other people. Especially other girls, and preferably in an environment you feel comfortable in (which might be a little problem, considering the previous posts). Maybe there's some initial feel of betrayal (since you're not feeling like "being true" to the one you imagine to love), but as I've mentioned above, that is false loyalty. I do by no means mean to do it out of spite, or to make her jealous (these things wouldn't work anyway). Just give your emotions a positive break. You deserve it.
Don't think of it as seeing "someone else." See it as "someone different", as there is no substitue for any person.
Getting to know someone you can really value is a very grafitying experience. But once again, you have to open up yourself.
 

Tikka

New member
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
133
MBTI Type
INFJ
Correct, he doesn't fit Billy's description of a nice guy, he told her he did have the feelings, he would date her, but he felt they would be rushing it, so the girl went to the guy that would sleep with her right away.

... and mr. Nice Guy ends up in tears!

:shock:

This is completely what happens to Nice Guys. :doh: :cry: He's too much of a wussy to get what he wants, another guy steps in, and *BOOM* no self esteem left.

And guys, we're not talking about a nice guy here, we're talking about the definition Nice Guy aka Wuss aka spineless doormat who ends up in tears because he's not man enough to be there for the girl mentally and physically if that's what he wanted (and boy, did he want it, he's completely in pieces right now! :huh: ).

He moved himself in losing position by - as HE put it - caring about HER feelings, and caring about THEM going 'too fast' and doing what he regards as being 'nice' to her.

But where did it get him? Where did his so called niceness get him?

In tears.

Oh boy. :doh:

For all the people who can't read: I'm not telling men to be assholes to get a girl. I'm not telling people to be bad persons. I'm just telling men to be men.

And to the topicstarter: I explicitely want to state I sympathize with your friend, and I already gave you some practical advise to get him out of his temporary rut. You have to know that Billy and I are not mocking him personally, we're just trying to show what by definition happens to a 'Nice Guy' and that he pretty much fits into this description right now. Nice Guys always end up in tears, not understanding why, because they were so.... nice (!) to this girl.
 

Tikka

New member
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
133
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2. Its not honest, I see it more as a form of trickey. Spoiling a woman and then acting like you just want to be her friend and then flying off the handle when she ends up dating some "asshole"

Asshole as defined by a nice guy = "the guy who swept in on the nice guys "girl" and took her away without being well... nice like the nice guy.

Any man who is kind, confident and good, should just be seen as a MAN, not a nice guy. We dont have to qualify true good intentions with a word like nice, men are supposed to be that way, and if they aren't then they aren't men.

I just wanted to quote this for truth.

The 'Nice Guy' does all the things a 'good friend' for the girl would do. Listen to her problems, telling her he really likes her but wouldn't want to move too fast. Friendshippy stuff. 'I want you to be happy the right way'-stuff. But then totally shatters in pieces when he finds out that some other guy shagged her!!

News break: if he only wanted friendship, he wouldn't feel this depressed! If he wanted more, he should have gone and gotten more! It's his choice! He chose pain and agony, and do you really think him being depressed right now is doing the girl any good? I mean, really!

Don't think that if you're not a Nice Guy, you're an asshole automatically. Assholes are just assholes. But real desirable men are kind, confident and good.
 

Mad Hatter

Head Pigeon
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And to the topicstarter: I explicitely want to state I sympathize with your friend, and I already gave you some practical advise to get him out of his temporary rut.

You sympathize, but you don't empathize.

Or do you really think that he wasn't being sincere when he said that they were going too fast?
If it didn't feel right to him before, a screw probably wouldn't have made him any happier afterwards.
 

Tikka

New member
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
133
MBTI Type
INFJ
You sympathize, but you don't empathize.

Or do you really think that he wasn't being sincere when he said that they were going too fast?
If it didn't feel right to him before, a screw probably wouldn't have made him any happier afterwards.

I empathize as such that we all have been into the Nice Guy syndrome before, unless you got it right from the start.

The guy said all the nice things in the hope for the girl to like him romatically, sustainably, as friends, through good and bad times, etc. etc. Too friggin idealistic, won't happen, and the only thing that DID happen was that he hurt himself.

That's trickery. Tricking the girl to like him in this idealistic way. Won't work.

If he really cared about this girl, and I mean really, he could have been a man, provided her with mental AND physical comfort WITHOUT telling himself sex is a bad thing at that moment - clearly the girl didn't think so (!!) - and to be there for the girl as a real man. Then, now and maybe for some time to come, who knows! Much better for the girl, and certainly much better for himself, compared to the state he's in now.

If he didn't really care about this girl, but only feeling depressed because some other guy screwed her, he should suck it up and stop sulking.

Now he got to hear all her problems and as a bonus he got to hear some other guy did screw her. Results: pain, agony, distorted friendship, not being there for or helping the girl anymore, and overall depressiveness. Nice job! :huh:
 

nzAShadow

New member
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
64
MBTI Type
INFP
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9w1
I empathize as such that we all have been into the Nice Guy syndrome before, unless you got it right from the start.

The guy said all the nice things in the hope for the girl to like him romatically, sustainably, as friends, through good and bad times, etc. etc. Too friggin idealistic, won't happen, and the only thing that DID happen was that he hurt himself.

That's trickery. Tricking the girl to like him in this idealistic way. Won't work.

If he really cared about this girl, and I mean really, he could have been a man, provided her with mental AND physical comfort WITHOUT telling himself sex is a bad thing at that moment - clearly the girl didn't think so (!!) - and to be there for the girl as a real man. Then, now and maybe for some time to come, who knows! Much better for the girl, and certainly much better for himself, compared to the state he's in now.

If he didn't really care about this girl, but only feeling depressed because some other guy screwed her, he should suck it up and stop sulking.

Now he got to hear all her problems and as a bonus he got to hear some other guy did screw her. Results: pain, agony, distorted friendship, not being there for or helping the girl anymore, and overall depressiveness. Nice job! :huh:

Something is misunderstood in this. She was already interested him in a romantic sense. Also he truly believed rushing into a relationship as fast as she was simply was the wrong way of handling things, and didn't trust that her feelings were real, he was afraid of just being a rebound guy.

He didn't say these things to get her interested, though he didn't jump on an opportunity that could have prevented the fall of his well being. He wasn't acting idealistic, but his ideals did get in his way.
 

Billy

Crazy Diamond
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,192
MBTI Type
INFJ
Something is misunderstood in this. She was already interested him in a romantic sense. Also he truly believed rushing into a relationship as fast as she was simply was the wrong way of handling things, and didn't trust that her feelings were real, he was afraid of just being a rebound guy.

He didn't say these things to get her interested, though he didn't jump on an opportunity that could have prevented the fall of his well being. He wasn't acting idealistic, but his ideals did get in his way.

He was acting idealistically when he turned down her advances apparently. For better or worse. I have turned a girl down too for fear of it being a rebound, but I wasnt really interested in her to boot.
 

Kra

Black Magic Buzzard
Joined
Jun 24, 2009
Messages
912
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
4w5
For all the people who can't read: I'm not telling men to be assholes to get a girl. I'm not telling people to be bad persons. I'm just telling men to be men.

Tis a hard lesson to learn, but it's the truth.
 

Tikka

New member
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
133
MBTI Type
INFJ
Something is misunderstood in this. She was already interested him in a romantic sense. Also he truly believed rushing into a relationship as fast as she was simply was the wrong way of handling things, and didn't trust that her feelings were real, he was afraid of just being a rebound guy.

She was interested in him in a romantic sense, so she slept with another guy when your friend said he just didn't think it was a good idea at the moment? :huh: :shock: :doh:

So. Obvious. :cry:

Makes me wanna slap him back into reality before he got hurt. But that's too late now.
 
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