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[NF] Self-worth and your relationships with others

SilkRoad

Lay the coin on my tongue
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I’ve been told a few times now by mature people, whose insight I respect, that I must not let my self-worth/self-esteem be affected by how another person behaves or feels towards me. This has always followed on the heels of a conversation about a friend being angry with me, a breakup, someone who I’ve made friendship efforts with not giving me the time of day…etc.

A few people seem to have picked up on this from me, and from self-examination I am getting the impression it is a problem for me, too. When people treat me unkindly, or if I fall out with a friend, or if a guy I like doesn’t like me, etc, it just seems to flatten me out of all measure. Besides having physical symptoms like nausea and exhaustion, I start questioning everything about myself. If there is blame on both sides, I blow my side of it out of all proportion. If it’s clearly the other person’s fault (I mean, it might even be clear to others), I still start questioning everything about myself and the part I may have played. I shouldn’t have said things that way, I pick my friends badly, if he doesn’t like me it’s because I’m not worth much, blah blah blah. I may be exaggerating slightly here, but only slightly. It is definitely sometimes I need to work on.

I should add that generally my relationships with others seem to run quite smoothly. So part of it may be the shock on the relatively rare occasions when things don’t go well. But that doesn’t really explain it… Maybe I also take too much of my self-worth from generally having good relationships with others!

Is this very much an NF thing, or am I just a bit messed up? :(
 

Halla74

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My INFJ wife has this happen to some degree. If she gets lectured by her stepmother, she is tense and feels ill for days.

It's not fair.

I wish I knew a way to give her some of my stonecold self assurance.

All I can tell you is that you can't make everyone happy all the time. At some point you need to be able to agree to disagree with people, and be OK with it.

Not everyone deserves the right to have such a pull on you.

If my wife says one critical thing to me it crushes me, because I love her so much. But if ANYONE else in the world lips off to me I can tell them to go frack themselves at a moment's notice and then completely go on about my day.

If you know that you are a good and well intended person, then live your life, give yourself some room for error, and don't be too concerned with others' viewpoints on you.

Remember, some people are manipulative, you don't want them in your head...
 

Tikka

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It's an NF thing. I recognise a lot about that. We just derive a lot of our own happiness from our surroundings.

Conversely, if the surroundings are not happy, we project that on ourselves.

When near an NT who is not happy, I really have to refrain myself to ask him/her why she's not happy, because although intuitively you know that's the case, some NT's really don't appreciate you do the feeling for them.
 
P

Phantonym

Guest
I’ve been told a few times now by mature people, whose insight I respect, that I must not let my self-worth/self-esteem be affected by how another person behaves or feels towards me. This has always followed on the heels of a conversation about a friend being angry with me, a breakup, someone who I’ve made friendship efforts with not giving me the time of day…etc.

A few people seem to have picked up on this from me, and from self-examination I am getting the impression it is a problem for me, too. When people treat me unkindly, or if I fall out with a friend, or if a guy I like doesn’t like me, etc, it just seems to flatten me out of all measure. Besides having physical symptoms like nausea and exhaustion, I start questioning everything about myself. If there is blame on both sides, I blow my side of it out of all proportion. If it’s clearly the other person’s fault (I mean, it might even be clear to others), I still start questioning everything about myself and the part I may have played. I shouldn’t have said things that way, I pick my friends badly, if he doesn’t like me it’s because I’m not worth much, blah blah blah. I may be exaggerating slightly here, but only slightly. It is definitely sometimes I need to work on.

I should add that generally my relationships with others seem to run quite smoothly. So part of it may be the shock on the relatively rare occasions when things don’t go well. But that doesn’t really explain it… Maybe I also take too much of my self-worth from generally having good relationships with others!

Is this very much an NF thing, or am I just a bit messed up? :(

You are not messed up, so don't worry about that. :hug:

:shock: I could have written all of this myself. I can relate to this so much. :cry: I keep telling myself that I must not let things get to me. Mostly I can manage it very well but sometimes even the slightest, tiniest, really insignificant thing just knocks the wind right out of me. I don't really have any physical symptoms except for this really, really bad feeling of being utterly worthless and I get an irresistible urge to crawl under a rock or something. :laugh: Sorry, I have no useful advice to give on how to deal with this. For me it just comes and goes, everything passes. :)
 

SilkRoad

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I wish I knew a way to give her some of my stonecold self assurance.

Please can I have some too...you seem to have it to spare! :D :hug: It would be very useful...I find this kind of thing so exhausting.

Remember, some people are manipulative, you don't want them in your head...

Yes...Also, I let some people get away with too much crap because for one reason or another I am too fond of them...maybe you just have to let go sometimes.

It might be more accurate to add that not EVERY interpersonal conflict affects me this way. If I haven't invested anything, or much, in the person involved, I may not even view it as a conflict or I won't get into the conflict in the first place. If I've invested in the person, however...this kind of thing can just knock me right over. :cry:
 

Fidelia

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INFJs are especially bad for this. You're perfectly normal. When I worked on the reserve I found that I would say hello to hundreds of people throughout the day and only get responses from a few. I would make efforts to be friendly and sometimes not have them met with friendliness back. It was a hugely valuable experience. I finally realized that it wasn't about me. These people had problems of their own that were taking up too large a part of their headspace to pay attention to anyone else. Once I realized that, it made it a lot easier to detach in an appropriate way from that rejection. I'm going through difficulties with spoiled Grade 7s and 8s at school who do not want to take the subject matter I've been hired to teach. There isn't a lot of admin support. I again am going through those same feelings - nausea, exhaustion, self-doubt. The only thing that helps is past experiences and realizing that there are reasons for this happening that don't have anything to do with me being a failure!
 

Tikka

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I'm just wondering: if we're not talking about MBTI, we would just say people who are easily hurt (*cough* NF-peeps) have low self esteem.

What is the correlation between having low self esteem, and being an NF? I have the feeling out NT/ST friends have an easier time to shake off these kind of negativeties.
 

SilkRoad

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I'm just wondering: if we're not talking about MBTI, we would just say people who are easily hurt (*cough* NF-peeps) have low self esteem.

What is the correlation between having low self esteem, and being an NF? I have the feeling out NT/ST friends have an easier time to shake off these kind of negativeties.

Taking things too personally? Being personal about everything? :shock:

I actually feel like most things for me either fall into the category of water off a duck's back...they hardly bother me at all...or (a smaller number of things, generally) I take them personally to a ridiculously disproportionate degree.
 

Tikka

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What I meant was being overly personal about interpersonal relationship stuff.

Sometimes I watch the news and shrug off all the suffering in the world - simply because it's too far from my bed and it's not affecting me personally.
 

SilkRoad

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What I meant was being overly personal about interpersonal relationship stuff.

Sometimes I watch the news and shrug off all the suffering in the world - simply because it's too far from my bed and it's not affecting me personally.

As far as the news and the suffering of the world - that varies from day to day, for me. There are days when even the suffering of strangers seems to get me down to an excessive degree. Other days, it might sadden me a bit but it's not a big deal (callous as that sounds).

That probably has to do with what else is going on in my life and where my sensitivities are directed for the moment.
 

Fidelia

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I don't think that being easily hurt necessarily indicates low self-esteem. For me, I find I am much more resilient about most things than other types around me. It's just those few things that have a ridiculously strong effect.
 

SilkRoad

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I don't think that being easily hurt necessarily indicates low self-esteem. For me, I find I am much more resilient about most things than other types around me. It's just those few things that have a ridiculously strong effect.


Yes, I agree. Also, internalizing things can be a problem. If something does fall into that category of really hurting me, it's like I take it right into me and I feel the stress right through my body...and I don't really have an outlet...I wish I could just :steam: and then feel much better. Unfortunately, the times when I have been upset about something and have :steam: it's been directed at someone and has resulted in potential damage to the relationship and then I feel horrible the next day...worse than before :cry:
 

Totenkindly

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...Is this very much an NF thing, or am I just a bit messed up? :(

It's an NF thing. I recognise a lot about that. We just derive a lot of our own happiness from our surroundings. Conversely, if the surroundings are not happy, we project that on ourselves.

I would say that NFs are far more susceptible to it, but I would not say it is an "NF" thing.

The same feelings can also be exacerbated by environmental pressures esp in childhood that set a foundation for feeling that one's worth is based on acceptance by people in authority or other loved ones.

I think T helps give a natural buffer -- it detaches you from other people's opinions in general -- but it doesn't mean you're immune. I think P's are more susceptible in that they flex constantly to their environment, hence they might automatically try to accommodate other people's responses. And then there are particular type combo's (SFJ) who might naturally develop self-worth from their ability to meet a certain external standard (Fe-based) etc. Cultures with intense and rigid moral leanings also contribute (for example, fundamentalist religions) to those feelings of negative self-worth. I'm not even convinced that TJs are immune to this, I just think their natural bent is to plow forward and dismiss emotions and not overthink them... and so while they look fine outwardly it doesn't mean they're still not dealing with feelings of inadequacy and other people's opinions on SOME level.

I've found myself frustrated for years because intellectually I have been able to look at those feelings of "being in thrall to someone else's view of me" and think they were irrational and even stupid and thinking I should just be able to get over it and not let it bug me, but it took me a few years of intense life changes (where basically I plunged forward and lived according to what I perceived regardless of feelings), where I triggered all those negative shame-causing mirrors of myself and then had to deal with any imposed shame, before I could say I had "gotten over it"... and I still have been pretty scarred by them, I still had to deal with it on some level even if in general I just shrug it off now.
 

ladypinkington

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I relate sooo much. I think for me it is because I have no idea what the reality is- there are so many possibilities- what if this person's perception is more correct though it is negative? How do I know my friends are right to like and love me? Who is right?

What if there are things I need to work and examine- how can I reach optimum human being capacity- it isn't enough to be human I desire to be all that I can be- what if this negative information is needed and valid. I must examine everything to death,lol.

Everything is valid and there are so many possibilities and such a high self imposed standard- and so many perceptions to evaluate and consider and oh yeah- what the hell is the reality!
 

Moiety

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I've always been regarded as a pretty sensible and charismatic (and modest I might add) guy, who never avoided confrontation and was always very honest about his opinion of other people so, in the past, when people I cared about weren't completely entranced by my personality I took it harshly and started to analyze myself what I was doing wrong.

True is, you can't let people who love you have that kind of power over you. You gotta do your own thing and hope for the best. Do what you feel is right and share the consequences with other people...don't burden yourself with all of it. Incompatibility between any two people in any kind of relationship, isn't a sign that one of the parties is fucked up in the head....it's a sign those two people don't go particularly well together.

Obviously, there are always episodes where one could handle things differently, so it's pretty simple actually. Define yourself as a person and what you stand for and stick to that. And hope for the best.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I should add that generally my relationships with others seem to run quite smoothly. So part of it may be the shock on the relatively rare occasions when things don’t go well. But that doesn’t really explain it… Maybe I also take too much of my self-worth from generally having good relationships with others!

Is this very much an NF thing, or am I just a bit messed up? :(
It can be something of an NF thing. I can relate. Part of it for me is that I put a bit of energy into trying to understand other people, to take into account the big picture of everyone's perspectives and needs, and to create balance. When someone is unexpectedly angry at me, it is disorienting because it shows that my original understanding was not accurate. I think because Ni draws core concepts from the biggest possible picture, to have that core concept be proven wrong can throw everything into question. In some ways it is the most efficient, and in others the most inefficient, approach to thinking.
 

SilkRoad

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When someone is unexpectedly angry at me, it is disorienting because it shows that my original understanding was not accurate. I think because Ni draws core concepts from the biggest possible picture, to have that core concept be proven wrong can throw everything into question.


The way you have put this is very interesting. I can relate because it can take me a long, long time to "rejig" (if you will) that core understanding if someone hurts me, is angry with me, etc. I have found that it can take me months or even years, I can still be trying to sort things out in my head and heart and see where they fit, if it is major enough it can be like trying to adjust to a whole new worldview. Emotionally it feels quite unhealthy, I end up rehashing stuff ad infinitum. I wish there was a short cut. If there is, I have not found it yet.
 

SilkRoad

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True is, you can't let people who love you have that kind of power over you. You gotta do your own thing and hope for the best. Do what you feel is right and share the consequences with other people...don't burden yourself with all of it. Incompatibility between any two people in any kind of relationship, isn't a sign that one of the parties is fucked up in the head....it's a sign those two people don't go particularly well together.

Obviously, there are always episodes where one could handle things differently, so it's pretty simple actually. Define yourself as a person and what you stand for and stick to that. And hope for the best.

Thanks, a lot of truth in what you said there, succintly put :)
 

Usehername

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I'm not even convinced that TJs are immune to this, I just think their natural bent is to plow forward and dismiss emotions and not overthink them... and so while they look fine outwardly it doesn't mean they're still not dealing with feelings of inadequacy and other people's opinions on SOME level.

:yes: The other thing is that when anyone is stressed they tend to stick with the basics of what they know, which for TJs happens to be steamrolling past stuff with the Te function.

IME Ni means I pick up vibes really well (though I wouldn't argue I always know what the vibes are, it's like the Jurassic Park scene where the water glass is rippling from the booming of the dinosaurs on their way, NTJ always know stuff is happening, even if they don't get the motives like an NF might) and when that happens I become more of a seemingly unfazed stoic around others, but I also spend more time alone processing through my thoughts.
 

runvardh

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This is why I don't let anyone in; I have enough to deal with when I actually screw up.
 
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