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[NF] INFJ/INFP Points of Contention

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
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I've noticed a number of INFPs express that they find INFJs difficult to be friends with. I have ended up knowing/being friends with a lot of INFPs, but also can see where some of our differences are more glaring than one might think at first. On here, I find I get along very well with a lot of INFPs and have had interesting/useful conversations in better understanding them.

Where do you find those areas of contention lie? What do you find hardest to understand about the other type?

Obviously Fi/Fe is a problem for many...
 

Thalassa

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I usually get along with INFJs really well for some reason. I like INFJs. :wubbie:

I actually fall somewhere between INFP and ENFP (xNFP, or just eNFP) and I find that if I do have trouble with a type more, it would actually be ENFJ, not INFJ. It's not that I dislike ENFJs, but I'm just more likely to bother or be bothered by them than INFJs I think.

Mainly the point of contention is Fi/Fe like you have mentioned, so I don't know that I could marry an INFJ man or something that deep and on-going. I think my behavior might be offensive to some INFJs, like I'm much too rebellious for lack of a better term, and I occasionally feel annoyed by what I can only describe as getting the feeling of a school teacher or librarian checking up on me.

But INFJs as friends are TOTALLY awesome. :hug:
 

BlackCat

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Perhaps Ni/Ne is a clashing point as well? In my experience I don't clash with IN_Js when it comes to perception. It's like we are two sides to the same coin. I imagine with the Ne/Ni difference it's just a different animal altogether.

With actually placing judgment on things, Fi/Fe gets annoying. So I imagine that seeing things differently and judging things differently, yet having a decent bit in common must get frustrating sometimes.
 

Seymour

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Okay, I'm reposting this from another forum, so be warned. This was a thread on "What pisses you off about INFJs?" This was meant to be a little cheeky, so I hope the INFJs don't take too much offense.

Okay, one of my best friends from college is an INFJ and work closely with an INFJ. I love them to death, but they do have a few teensy little flaws...

- They love giving unsolicited advice. They can be extremely, relentlessly nudgy. The fact that it's for your own good doesn't change this. As an INFP, I'm getting plenty of critique on what I should be doing internally, I don't need extra pressure from outside. k? thx!

- They apparently signed up for the alternative-medicine/belief-system buffet. One of them believes in reiki, homeopathy, colored light therapy, reincarnation, herbalism, etc. The other has been a fundamentalist Christian, a rainbow family hippie, a polyamory family member, a tarot card reader, etc. I wish I could believe in five impossible things before breakfast, but I'm just not so gifted. Believing a couple of impossible things in a lifetime seems like challenge enough for me.

- They can be hyper-aware of the emotions of others, but occasionally entirely oblivious to their own anger or resentment. One of my INFJ friends can be yelling arguing a point, and deny he is even slightly upset. Later he'll come back around and apologize for that. I realize this one may not be typical for a healthy INFJ, but as long as we are sharing irritations...

So there's my INFJ rant. I admit it's probably colored by my envy of their ability to more directly express themselves in the world, and their ability to throw themselves into the path their Ni leads them on.
 

runvardh

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Haven't really had problems with the type, just individuals. Eh, unless the INFJ is in big time mother hen mode and starts trying to mother me around, but that's it. I otherwise have more head butting contests with others of my own type.
 

mwv6r

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Yes I must admit I do get the strong urge to give advice. Friends and coworkers often come to me to vent their frustrations, and over the years I've gradually come to realize that often what they want is just a sympathetic ear, not ideas for how to get out of their predicament. It's tough though because sometimes I feel like I can see the unobscured big picture and a simple solution more clearly than they do (especially true of xSxJ friends), and I just want to step in and help!

Now back to the topic at hand, I love INFPs and find them to be kindred spirits in many ways. But I'd have to say that points of contention are flakiness and mood swings. Not that I'm always free of those things myself! ;)



Okay, I'm reposting this from another forum, so be warned. This was a thread on "What pisses you off about INFJs?" This was meant to be a little cheeky, so I hope the INFJs don't take too much offense.

Okay, one of my best friends from college is an INFJ and work closely with an INFJ. I love them to death, but they do have a few teensy little flaws...

- They love giving unsolicited advice. They can be extremely, relentlessly nudgy. The fact that it's for your own good doesn't change this. As an INFP, I'm getting plenty of critique on what I should be doing internally, I don't need extra pressure from outside. k? thx!

- They apparently signed up for the alternative-medicine/belief-system buffet. One of them believes in reiki, homeopathy, colored light therapy, reincarnation, herbalism, etc. The other has been a fundamentalist Christian, a rainbow family hippie, a polyamory family member, a tarot card reader, etc. I wish I could believe in five impossible things before breakfast, but I'm just not so gifted. Believing a couple of impossible things in a lifetime seems like challenge enough for me.

- They can be hyper-aware of the emotions of others, but occasionally entirely oblivious to their own anger or resentment. One of my INFJ friends can be yelling arguing a point, and deny he is even slightly upset. Later he'll come back around and apologize for that. I realize this one may not be typical for a healthy INFJ, but as long as we are sharing irritations...

So there's my INFJ rant. I admit it's probably colored by my envy of their ability to more directly express themselves in the world, and their ability to throw themselves into the path their Ni leads them on.
 

Chunes

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INFPs and INFJs can get along scarily well, but it takes some perception adjustment.

For me, it's realizing that their unsolicited advice is with good intentions—check your pride at the door and take their criticism as a chance to help you grow. If you fail to do this you'll most likely end up building this resentment like 'quit trying to help me.' I've sort of noticed that INFJs seem to be a little more utilitarian than INFPs—the means justify the ends sort of thinking. So they may take a route that we don't necessarily approve of, but with INFJs you have to look at what they've done and not so heavily at how they did it, or else this could grow to be a major contention between our two types.

Let's face it; INFJs are more efficacious than us. Their means are bound, at times, to seem overly forceful and incompassionate, even if the end is for a very good purpose.

As long as both of you are emotionally mature and can alter perceptions a bit, the INFP-INFJ relationship becomes insanely symbiotic: the INFP encourages the INFJ to slow down a bit, relax, smell the roses, and the INFJ encourages the INFP to have a little more oomph, be a bit more decisive, try sticking to a plan once in a while. As long as both realize each other's underlying natures and don't try to push the other past their breaking point, but gently goads the other out of their comfort zone once in a while, it's pretty fantastic.
 

Totenkindly

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It is really interesting to read the rest of this thread and see how you view each other. I don't remember if there is an INTJ/INTP thread like this, but it's interesting there as well... I could immediately list a bunch of differences that can bond INTJ/INTP but also cause some difficulty in communication.

fidelia said:
Where do you find those areas of contention lie? What do you find hardest to understand about the other type?

here's a rather fumbly inexact description of my observations as an outsider to both (but maybe it will be helpful/interesting as a third point of triangulation):

I have both close INFP and INFJ friends.

What I notice is that INFP seems more "flexy open." They are more obviously tender-hearted in a "raw" sense (I don't know how to explain it better). Any walls I run across in exploring/interacting with them are "fuzzy walls," if that makes sense, I can poke and prod a bit and sense some give there and get a feel for what might be in it because of how the wall flexes around that hidden knowledge.

With my INFJ friends, there's just a veneer of control and a cordial wall / way of doing things around them. They are very kind but read "cooler" to me than the INFP counterpart. I also feel like certain areas of knowledge are very blocked off while others are very open. The walls are much more firm and I only get access to a hidden area if they come right out and tell me what's there.

I'm more careful with most of my INFJ friends because I don't either want to run into a wall and hurt myself or else go completely into an undesired location and have them shut me out. With my INFP friends, I feel I have more leeway -- they have a playful, fuzzy way of flexing around me if I intrude too far by accident, and they might give a bit or throw me something to see what I'll do with it. INFJ seems far less prone to do that, even if I put myself out there first; the decision has usually been made up front about what information I will be allowed access to. INFJ feels more engimatic to me, I usually can grasp what lies underneath in my INFP friends more easily.
 

ReadingRainbows

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My best friend in the WORLD is an INFP.
 

Lily Bart

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I met up with two INFP's and I really enjoyed being around them and talking with them -- we could talk for hours -- at least this was my perception, but neither friendship ever seemed to go anywhere. I blamed it on them not having their acts together -- if I initiated something, they responded, but they never (or rarely) invited me to do anything. But then again, maybe they just didn't like me that much -- ??
 

proximo

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It's kinda funny how we're tempted to think "just one letter different", and assume they should get on.

From what I see, it's when the first letter changes and nothing else, that's what makes two types most similar-yet-different. Change any of the other letters and you've got a completely unrecognisable kettle of fish.

Jennifer - my experience is just the same as yours, in this area.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
But then again, maybe they just didn't like me that much -- ??

Eh, many of us are simply lazy and apprehensive. It's our faults. Don't take it personally.

We love you, we just don't always know how to activate that love toward anything productive.

That's why when INFJ comes in and says "Let's do something", the INFP is relieved because they don't have to make a conscious decision to do anything but go with the flow.
 

Fidelia

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That's interesting, Jennifer! What do you find are the friction between INTP and INTJ comes in? Do you get along quite well with ENTPs?
 

Athenian200

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Mostly, I feel as if the INFP is certain of their own values, and not open to meaningful input about what values are appropriate in what situations. To me, this makes them seem annoyingly inflexible, and their surface flexibility seem like a shallow and misleading attempt to appear open-minded and thoughtful. It feels as if they're trying to direct me towards what they feel is right by throwing out ideas that seem random but all hint at the same underlying principle, and use open, unassertive language hoping I'll think their values were my idea based on the view the ideas were meant to evoke. I almost feel like my intelligence is being insulted, that they think I'm stupid enough not to see that they're subtly promoting their own values.

I tend to feel like I'm being more open by telling them what I value upfront, and offering to let them disagree or challenge it, perhaps give me a new perspective.

Then again, I can imagine what Fe looks like to someone with an internalized value system... and it's not very pretty either. :doh:

ENFPs are not quite the same, though. At first, some INFP-like dynamics can appear if I don't know them well, but after we hash things out, we usually find that we simply misread each other at first, and end up largely agreeing or compromising.
 

Billy

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I like INFPs, I get along well with them emotionally and they are quite receptive to my gentle kindness and flattery, the only thing about that that puts me off in general and I know a few iNFPs is their lack of direction and drive to accomplish things. They do things at a much slower more gentle pace than I would prefer to do something. When I want to do something I want it done, I want it done fast and I want it done properly. That's the goal and I will make that happen, how it is made to happen is up for grabs. Whatever seems the most like it will work the best.
 

Lightyear

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When I want to do something I want it done, I want it done fast and I want it done properly.

Haha that is so like me, I could have invented the concept of efficiency, don't stand in my way getting things done. :)

I wrote this about a (former) INFP friend of mine a few months ago in this thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nf-idyllic/18803-fi-selfishness-related.html Though I think my friend was behaving like an unhealthy INFP it might shed light on some INFP/INFJ head-butting issues.

I have an INFP friend and though I really like her as a person she is quite a bad friend for the simple reason that she is very selfish. I am wondering if that is related to her having Fi as a dominant function and her using it in an unhealthy way.

I'll try to put her behaviour into words. My friend often goes by how she feels about things on the inside, for example if she feels like she needs to be around people she will be happy to spend time with you, if she wants her own space she will make it clear to you and not spend time with you even if you as a friend might need her company. I in contrast would spend time with a friend in need whatever my mood is simply because this person is my friend and I believe in sometimes sacrificing your own needs for someone else. My friend doesn't seem to get the concept of sacrifice at all, her own wellbeing and "inner feeling compass" determine how she acts, other people's feelings don't really become part of the equation.

She also doesn't seem to get simple rules of friendship that are to me clear as day. For example I broke my foot last year and had to spend a lot of time at home and though I told her about my accident via email pretty soon and she lived just twenty minutes walk from my flat it didn't occur to her at all to pay me a visit during these weeks. I know that if my good friend had an accident and was homebound I would be over there in a flash to cheer her up. And I think it's much to easy to blame it on me being an extroverted feeler and her being an introverted feeler, I do think a lot of IxFPs would visit a sick person too, is her use of Fi just very unhealthy? (And no, her behaviour has nothing to do with her not liking me or trying to avoid me, the simple self-sacrificial rules of friendship just don't seem to occur to her.) She is also the kind of person that I wouldn't ask for help if I really needed it because I would be too scared that she "just wouldn't feel like helping me", hiding that sentiment rather badly underneath a thin coat of superficial empathy to quieten her conscience.

Any thoughts on that? (And if anyone wonders (since I am an INFJ) I haven't doorslammed her yet (she probably wouldn't even notice since I haven't heard from her since I moved away from my home country seven months ago and I am just tired of always making the first step), she used to be one of my best friends at high school so I am more cautious about just cutting every contact completely off but she is working her way straight into the "I just couldn't be arsed to spend any more time and effort on you, you are invisible to me." INFJ zone)

I remember that this thread started a whole discussion about how I am being too demanding of my friend by expecting her to behave in certain ways (my Fe I suppose) while I am thinking that one can expect basic things from friends else they are nothing more than acquaintances and in order to deepen a relationship the two parties have to invest in each other, giving of oneself, one's time etc else they are always going to be swimming in the shallow end of friendship.
 

WoodsWoman

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OA - your post is priceless - one I'm going to have to print off for reference.

For me Fi is so internal I have to use my own Ne to reference it. It is difficult to quantify to myself, never mind anyone else and all my explanations are going to be circuitous metaphors rarely able to state any of it directly.
 

Fidelia

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I can relate to what Lightyear is saying. I am wondering from an INFP perspective, how is it that you show/deepen friendship? For us, it is so tied up in trying to make the other person feel cared for, wanted or loved by us and usually involves things like initiating contact with the other person or dropping everything and running even when it is not convenient (which I realize can seem manipulative when we get frustrated after awhile that the favour doesn't seem to be returned when we need it). I know that you guys care, but in what way would that be expressed most often?
 

nolla

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I know that you guys care, but in what way would that be expressed most often?

The especially soft spot for me is when people tell me about their major traumas. I won't ask anyone to do this, of course, but I am always ready for it with the closest people. I remember when a friend I never really got too close with told me about her wound, my perception of her changed completely as I had thought her to be too cold before but now knew the explanation of her high defenses. We hugged and cried for fifteen minutes. I think we are much closer now.

Edit. And yeah, I've tried to be more physical, I touch people more. But, actually the way I "care" usually is that I am ready to listen the troubles of people and sometimes try to solve them. I'm not sure how people know that, I guess it's some vibe, but they seem to tell me stuff all the time. I am the one the both sides of argument come to talk to. Usually I can't do anything but listen, though...
 

Billy

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Haha that is so like me, I could have invented the concept of efficiency, don't stand in my way getting things done. :)

I wrote this about a (former) INFP friend of mine a few months ago in this thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nf-idyllic/18803-fi-selfishness-related.html Though I think my friend was behaving like an unhealthy INFP it might shed light on some INFP/INFJ head-butting issues.



I remember that this thread started a whole discussion about how I am being too demanding of my friend by expecting her to behave in certain ways (my Fe I suppose) while I am thinking that one can expect basic things from friends else they are nothing more than acquaintances and in order to deepen a relationship the two parties have to invest in each other, giving of oneself, one's time etc else they are always going to be swimming in the shallow end of friendship.

If I had a friend who lived 20 minutes walk from my home and i was layed up with a broken foot or leg and thye never came to visit or call they would no longer be allowed into the Billy show and take part in my awesome rise to glory :p I wonder, for an INFJ i am a little over confident sometimes. lol
 
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