[MBTI General] Idealists... help!

[Tamske]

Hello Idealists!

I've done twelve of the "personified types"... and I'm struck on the last four, especially on INFP. I just don't get those idealists! Please help...

ENFP - okay. I can relate to them, more or less. It helps to have a very ENFP friend. (and I guess it also helps sharing three characteristics.)

ENFJ - how do you combine an idealistic worldview with that orderly decision-taking and neatness I've come to associate with Js? How do you bring it in the open? Do you try to change the world to fit your ideals and if so, how?

INFJ - the same questions as ENFJ. What difference does the introversion make? Are you trying to change yourself instead of the world?

INFP - I can imagine a dark, brooding, depressive INFP - the main villain in my current writing project is one. I can imagine a totally fluffy, optimistic INFP. I think both are stereotypes. What does a real INFP look like? Switching between the two? Somehow combining the two? How do you make an INFP inner world without creating a black hole in it??? (Villain's inner world is almost nothing but a black hole - interspersed with these fantasies that maybe it would come okay with him)

The strangest thing is... I share two (almost three, as I'm but weakly E) characteristics with INFP; and yet I can relate more to my opposite ISFJ...
I tried to start with my understanding of ENFP, but nothing. INFP would call ENFP "shallow", ENFP would call INFP... what?

 

[Amargith]

Think of the wise woman of a tribe or a shaman. You know, those that have that mysterious all-knowing smile on their face, and are genuinly amused and appreciative of the passion, impatience, ambition and cockiness found in young people. Those that easily join in with childrens games (with no regard for their status or to do list), and have those little lights in their eyes as kids do when they truly enjoy something. Those that observe the fun from a distance and softly smile at all the joy around. Those you feel will never judge you but guide you instead, who you can be vulnerable with and who will comfort you with a simple touch and a kind word, who can calm you down after you've gotten all worked up about something by giving you a single humorous line that changes your entire perspective on the matter... In short: lighthearted, child-like yet wiser than you'll ever know.

That's a mature XNFP imo, and that's what I hope to become some day

As for your question, we're meant to relate our inner world (Fi) to the real world through the use of Ne. If our inner world is too different and too rigid, we'll often feel jaded and disappointed and desillusionned by the world and the people. Something that indeed happens to a lot of us especially when young. If we decide to learn to live with it, we sacrifice who we are. Something most of us don't respond very well to. What's left is merging and redefining, at least, that's what I chose. Others, I've noticed, choose to assert themselves to the real world and keep it firmly seperated from their inner world, letting only few people into their inner sanctum. In other words, their inner world is guarded by a fortress (Te), and you'll have to answer the guards questions and prove your loyalty before being let in. And, when the NFP ventures out of the fortress, they'll do so in full battledress/armor (Te), just in case

As for me, I've found that although people will disappoint you, individuals who you've formed a connection with, rarely will, especially if you take the time to know them well. Then you know what they're like and what to expect. Why they have the flaws they have. How they are humans too, battling life and trying to carve out their path, with their strengths and weaknesses. How could I ever blame someone for...well, being human?

At that point, flaws become beautiful, original, unique and a precious part of that person (though that doesn't mean I agree with the actions tied to these flaws). And that does resonate with my inner world I've learned that my inner world is fragile and that like an elephant in a china cabinet, the real world will wreck it if I let it in without any preparation. Does that mean the elephant is evil? No..it just means it doesn't know any better. Or, maybe it does, but doesn't know how to do better.So me becoming resentful and jaded is kinda pointless. Instead, you can try and teach those elephants that are willing to learn..and you share your world gradually with them. And vice versa. Those elephants tend to teach me that the less than perfect parts of the world stilll have their merit which allows me to adapt my Fi-standards, as said before already. And voila..a succesful merging of two worlds. Easier said than done though.

In essence, that's what I do with those two halfs you described, too. We all have our bad days where we're lonely, annoyed, resentful, impatient, don't have the energy etc. And I also have days where I'm chipper, naive and child-like. Think yin-yang. Use both to balance out the other. On my bad days, I'll smile at myself, and be amused at the fact that I'm in that mood. And realize it will pass. On my naive days, I enjoy being in that mood, but keep an eye out for situations where it could potentionally damage me, and take precautions. Just because I wanna give people/things the benefit of the doubt and believe they are good, nice etc etc, doesn't mean I'll put myself in the line of potential fire..just in case

 

[runvardh]

I am both the child and the monster while I struggle to function in a jungle of glass and steel. I'm both in the bed and under the bed; equally wishing for the good and the destruction of humanity. I am love, I am pain, I am naive, I am wise; yet in the end all I really know is that I must choose which fence to walk today.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I am both the child and the monster while I struggle to function in a jungle of glass and steel. I'm both in the bed and under the bed; equally wishing for the good and the destruction of humanity. I am love, I am pain, I am naive, I am wise; yet in the end all I really know is that I must choose which fence to walk today.

Not knowing what you are is the worst part.

Take time to find you.

 

[runvardh]

Not knowing what you are is the worst part.

Take time to find you.

I have to do it part time, it's a long slow process and I need to be able to eat sometimes.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I have to do it part time, it's a long slow process and I need to be able to eat sometimes.

If it was easy we'd all be fonzie's

 

[Tamske]

Runvardh, can I use this on my drawing?

I am both the child and the monster while I struggle to function in a jungle of glass and steel. I'm both in the bed and under the bed; equally wishing for the good and the destruction of humanity. I am love, I am pain, I am naive, I am wise; yet in the end all I really know is that I must choose which fence to walk today.

I'm unable to come up with something this good. Many thanks to you INFPs!

(Now, where are the ENFJs and INFJs? Still struggling with them...)

 

[runvardh]

Runvardh, can I use this on my drawing?

I'm unable to come up with something this good. Many thanks to you INFPs!

(Now, where are the ENFJs and INFJs? Still struggling with them...)

As long as other's don't object to the imagery...

 

[neptunesnet]

I am both the child and the monster while I struggle to function in a jungle of glass and steel. I'm both in the bed and under the bed; equally wishing for the good and the destruction of humanity. I am love, I am pain, I am naive, I am wise; yet in the end all I really know is that I must choose which fence to walk today.

iloveyourun!

..You don't mind if I call you "run," do you?

 

[runvardh]

iloveyourun!

..You don't mind if I call you "run," do you?

I suppose I can allow it...

Don't worry, most call me that

 

[Lady_X]

Think of the wise woman of a tribe or a shaman. You know, those that have that mysterious all-knowing smile on their face, and are genuinly amused and appreciative of the passion, impatience, ambition and cockiness found in young people. Those that easily join in with childrens games (with no regard for their status or to do list), and have those little lights in their eyes as kids do when they truly enjoy something. Those that observe the fun from a distance and softly smile at all the joy around. Those you feel will never judge you but guide you instead, who you can be vulnerable with and who will comfort you with a simple touch and a kind word, who can calm you down after you've gotten all worked up about something by giving you a single humorous line that changes your entire perspective on the matter... In short: lighthearted, child-like yet wiser than you'll ever know.

That's a mature XNFP imo, and that's what I hope to become some day

aww...loved that. that's my enfp father.

 

[Bubbles]

I appear differently to people. Some people see me as this quiet, reserved, aloof person who's too busy thinking to be the life of the party. I've been called "mean" before, because when in that mood I tend towards the sarcastic.

But if you're my friend, you see a totally idealistic person who loves to open up about herself, lets herself be leeched by people in need of emotional support, can be a complete diva and yet a complete wallflower at the same time, doesn't betray you but takes it hard when you betray her.

I only know one other INFP in real life, and tbh I think I'm a lot more extraverted than her. I blame the 4w5 vs 4w3 for that though. But we're both spacy and daydreaming and don't like to rock the boat.

 

[scortia]

When I was in my college years, I shoved my idealism onto those around me... holding relatives and friends to my own personal high standards. I learned my lesson later on... My idealism starts with me, personally. I try to live as close to my view of perfection and "truth" as I possibly can be. My goals for an ideal world will hopefully come out through the way I act around others (rubbing off on other people) and through my expression (writing, art, music, etc) that I hope will reach people with my sincere thoughts and feelings.

 

[Tamske]

Thanks! I'm working on the pictures now

I like the "fortress and armor" image... I was trying to picture how my fortress would look like.
It's a ruin. A very messy one...

Edit: @ Runvardh: in the end, I didn't use your quote literally. I paraphrased a bit, probably adding a great deal of T concreteness to it, but I want those types to be clear about themselves

 

[bronson]

ENFJ - how do you combine an idealistic worldview with that orderly decision-taking and neatness I've come to associate with Js? How do you bring it in the open? Do you try to change the world to fit your ideals and if so, how?

Hmm interesting. Well the thing is, it is easy and comfortable to maintain yourself as an ESFJ - yet it is completey and utterly unsatisfying, for me.

The thing about the J, well in my experience, is that I can't stand chaos. I like to control everything. So at times I exist in this self-contradicting state whereby I long to maintain order and tie everything up in neat little bundles, yet my mind writhes in a state of utter philisophical disorder that I love and yet can't handle.

The way I over come this is to delve deeply into the concepts and information that challenge me until I can explain them succinctly to another.
I love to explain things to others! haha.

I can end up working hard to try and fit the world to my ideals but that is pretty much gonna break a person - its impossible! And that makes me go crazy. So the way I control this is by alienating myself personally from the concept, and yet endeavouring to gain an in depth understanding of it. And I can only really complete this process once I can explain it in full to some one else.

Maybe I'm just crazy. haha

 

[Phoenix_400]

INFP - I can imagine a dark, brooding, depressive INFP - the main villain in my current writing project is one. I can imagine a totally fluffy, optimistic INFP. I think both are stereotypes. What does a real INFP look like? Switching between the two? Somehow combining the two? How do you make an INFP inner world without creating a black hole in it??? (Villain's inner world is almost nothing but a black hole - interspersed with these fantasies that maybe it would come okay with him)

Well, I'm not pure INFP and my cognitive functions are a bit wonky according to tests but...

I am Yin and Yang. The forces of light and dark constantly struggling within me as I try to walk the straight and narrow. I strive to find the balance in my life. To find positive outlets for my negative emotions. To hold true to what I believe, even though it is somewhat off the beaten path.

I have seen some of the worst in people but still want to believe in the best. I will follow my friends through the depths of hell and bring that same hell down upon any who would harm those dear to me.

I identify with the antiheroes in fiction. The dark, mysterious loner. The tortured soul trying to right his wrongs. My favorites, the gruff noir detectives of old.

And now for your viewing pleasure, a little something I wrote after waking up in the middle of the night after a very rough few days:

I am the Hurricane.
Chaos and destruction
An unstoppable force
Nothing shall stand before the power of my wind.
Tremble as my anger approaches.

I am the Eye of the Hurricane.
A center of calm in the raging vortex.
A respite for those caught in the storm.
Within my walls, you are safe.

I am good.
And I am evil.
Two opposing forces
Wrapped into one
A Force of Nature.

.....maybe I should stop posting on here after taking my ambien