[INFJ] INFJs and people close to them?

[Gerbah]

I was reading the thread about how to get an INFJ to trust you and some of the stuff I read makes me think someone I know is an INFJ (really long, deep conversations, being “special” friends, etc.). We grew up together and had known each other for a long time and I really loved her like a sister. I thought we'd be friends forever. Then in my early twenties I made a huge change in lifestyle. She was happy for me, but at the same time it was like she was uncomfortable with it. It's just my guess, but my impression is that she thought she had me pegged and knew everything about me and now suddenly I was being unpredictable and different and no longer in the original category she'd put me in. I'm not friends with her any more now because she was acting really arrogant like on the one hand she did respect me, but at the same time she thought she was better than me and was embarrassed about being with me in front of certain people (not in my category). She acted like she knew everything about me (e.g. being surprised when she saw I had a certain pair of shoes she didn't know about), telling me what to do, like how to behave myself properly when meeting my in-laws for the first time, things like that, really patronising.

I was wondering just out of curiosity if it's common for INFJs to be controlling in that way with people close to them and not treating them properly? I don't think she would behave like that with most people. She's normally very careful and guarded (while appearing friendly, simple and open and fitting in with different types of people, they would never guess – is that also typical of INFJs?). I think I was just familiar enough for her that she didn't feel a need to be careful any more.

 

[Billy]

Sounds like an INFJ to me on some levels. I used to do very similar things before when I was younger. I didnt calm down and start letting things just be until recently.

 

[Fidelia]

I don't know about that specific situation, but I do know that INFJs hold the people close to them to a higher standard that they do to others. This can be frustrating and confusing to the people when they see understanding and non-judgemental attitudes towards others which are not available to them. I think it has a lot to do with INFJs valuing integrity and consistency. If someone is more distant from them, they are not worth having conflict with, nor does it matter nearly as much how they act. INFJs usually only have a small circle of very close people in their life, so I think the behaviour of those people matters a lot more to them and having something in common with them.

 

[Gerbah]

Thanks for the responses. They put an interesting light on what I know about her. Yes, she has only a small circle of people she would consider close to her. The rest might think they're close to her but she isn't close to them in her mind.

>> If someone is more distant from them, they are not worth having conflict with, nor does it matter nearly as much how they act. <<

Ah, ok. I did always wonder why and how she could go along so easily with what other people wanted/needed, including people who could really get out line and that I would never indulge, especially when these people weren't important to her. It is a really big deal for her to show her real self, she generally is very controlling of the image she shows to different people depending on how she sees them.

>> INFJs usually only have a small circle of very close people in their life, so I think the behaviour of those people matters a lot more to them and having something in common with them. <<

I know that the fact that I was in this small circle mattered a lot in relation to the big change I made in my life. What surprised me about her behaviour was that the change actually gave me a lot more in common with her. I changed my religion to the same religion she is – not because of her at all, this was a very independent decision made after years of research. She knew over these years that I was doing a lot of investigation into different religions and philosophies but I think it may have shocked her more than I realised at the time that I actually went through with making the real, practical life changes. I had never been a bad friend to her. I think what me being suddenly in this new category meant for her was that if I had been in that category from the beginning she would not have shown certain things, shared certain thoughts, behaved a certain way (and from what's been said it seems it's a big deal for an INFJ to share things from their real self). And now I was in a category of people who should not have the information about her that I did. Seeing as we were such close friends I didn't understand how she could be so fearful of me knowing her and her past with this new perspective. I didn't judge her at all. She is deep down insecure though, so it's probably those issues personal to her mixed up with being an INFJ.

It's very sad. She's a really special person and I valued my relationship with her a lot. But I had to get out of it for my own self-respect.

 

[qwertsquirt]

As much as me and my guy friends talk, I never really can establish the connection I get with women. A lot of my guy friends think I'm weird for it (haha I don't blame em) but I am hetero yet relate more with women. It's against society's norm but I am who I am. It's normally girls who I can trust and I know are good at comforting me when I'm hurt by someone or I'm feeling down.

 

[21%]

If your INFJ friend is an enneagram 4, it might be a jealousy issue, too. 4s need to feel special. If you suddenly change yourself and become more like her, whether on purpose or not, she might unconsciously perceive it as a threat to her uniqueness and would act arrogant towards you, thinking that she is the 'original' one and you are just 'copying'. Very unhealthy.

 

[Gerbah]

That rings a bell. Yes, she likes being “original”, in various ways. And yes, after the change weird jealousy issues were coming up that hadn't been there before. Down to really trivial things like when her mother was helping me write an important letter and she was trying to get attention by putting on a pair of sunglasses and asking how she looked in them. I had never seen her act like that before. And I was really shocked she would behave like that during something that was so serious for me. She had always been so caring and considerate in the past.

She was also getting very assertive about how much I needed her and everything will be much better now she's here. And doing other weird things like making a face when I got an sms on my phone as if I'm such a loser with no friends that's weird that Gerbah gets an sms (??? Ok, I don't try to be special friends with everyone including the florist and supermarket people but I am able to make friends with people I like!). She was generally being very passive-aggressive and rude. Either I had overestimated how much she valued me or she was taking me for granted. For the first time in our relationship I felt like she was just using me for when she couldn't be with other people she respected more or who were better for what mood she happened to be in. The worst was when someone said to us “oh, you're together” because they were surprised and didn't know we knew each other (we hardly knew them anyway) and she said like she was uncomfortable, “I don't know anyone else in this city” and I was standing right there!! :-( But anyway, I'm just ranting now. I understand better now and am more careful. ISTJs can take things too literally and I was rather naïve when I was younger but I've learned to look more at what's really going on.

 

[EcK]

Oh, i've known an infj for years (i only see her once a year). I really like her but i'm inconfortable with her around as I don't feel like I can be myself, it's just that I changed alot in the last few years and fixed some social anxiety issues I used to have.
So well, I often get the feeling that somehow who I was is still the norm in her head. She'd always compare what I do to what I used to do, I don't think in that way at all, may be related to the p/j difference, dunno.

 

[Gerbah]

Yeah, I was also feeling with this INFJ that her picture of me was based on how I was when we were still in school. I've changed a lot over the years and she wasn't even in the same country as me for most of the later years (although we saw each other every year) so she didn't know as much about me as she thought she did.

I don't think it's a P/J thing. I'm a J but I'm ok with change. Especially big, serious change like when people change and develop. I can also make cut offs quite quickly and easily if I feel it's the right thing to do. It bugs me more on a lower level like when my ENTP husband does something like suddenly change the plan/what I thought was the plan at the last minute. But I've learned from him how to live with that!

 

[Serendipity]

Isn't Si memory recollection and a built image?
Or something.

 

[21%]

That rings a bell. Yes, she likes being “original”, in various ways. And yes, after the change weird jealousy issues were coming up that hadn't been there before. Down to really trivial things like when her mother was helping me write an important letter and she was trying to get attention by putting on a pair of sunglasses and asking how she looked in them. I had never seen her act like that before. And I was really shocked she would behave like that during something that was so serious for me. She had always been so caring and considerate in the past.

She was also getting very assertive about how much I needed her and everything will be much better now she's here. And doing other weird things like making a face when I got an sms on my phone as if I'm such a loser with no friends that's weird that Gerbah gets an sms (??? Ok, I don't try to be special friends with everyone including the florist and supermarket people but I am able to make friends with people I like!). She was generally being very passive-aggressive and rude. Either I had overestimated how much she valued me or she was taking me for granted. For the first time in our relationship I felt like she was just using me for when she couldn't be with other people she respected more or who were better for what mood she happened to be in. The worst was when someone said to us “oh, you're together” because they were surprised and didn't know we knew each other (we hardly knew them anyway) and she said like she was uncomfortable, “I don't know anyone else in this city” and I was standing right there!! :-( But anyway, I'm just ranting now. I understand better now and am more careful. ISTJs can take things too literally and I was rather naïve when I was younger but I've learned to look more at what's really going on.

From your post she sounds very insecure. And it seems like she doesn't value your friendship much at all! From relationships like this, maybe it's a good thing to just step away.

 

[Gerbah]

Yeah, I gave it a year of that kind of behaviour before I got out of it for good. I just found it so bizarre because after I made the change she became so different. I don't think I was mistaken in thinking we were close. I've been reading around a bit more on the forum about INFJs and I can really relate to the description of them like an onion with lots of layers and them being picky about removing another layer. I really think that when I made this lifestyle change I was suddenly in another category and this put the arrangement of her layers for me out of whack. If I had unknowingly done something wrong, she never said so. She even apologised to me at one point for her behaviour. But although after that she was more careful I could sense it was just politeness. And I didn't need to stick around for lip service.

It was just so hurtful because I'd been there through thick and thin for her when no one else was and it was like she didn't need her dependable “crisis” friend any more. Since I've been reading around the forum, I'm pretty sure she's an INFJ with her cosmic connection and all that. I mean, it was nice and I enjoyed that closeness, I would have dreams where I could see what was happening to her or what she was thinking about. I still do sometimes. I just couldn't believe she could turn around just like that on what we had developed over 15 or so years of friendship, or dis me just for the sake of her image to a bunch of people she didn't even know and wouldn't be seeing again. I don't know all the factors of course but I wasn't the only person in her life who was distancing from her at this time, so I don't take it too personally.

 

[EcK]

What sort of change btw?

 

[Gerbah]

>> Isn't Si memory recollection and a built image?
Or something. <<

Yeah, something like that. One of things you use Si for is to store memories and impressions.

 

[Gerbah]

>> What sort of change btw? <<

I changed my religion. When I was around 21 I seriously asked myself, what is the truth? So I started from scratch, scrapped everything I'd ever heard or been told and tried to examine things objectively and rationally. I started from zero and built up my beliefs until I had something I could accept with peace as true and that I could live by.

 

[mwv6r]

...like when her mother was helping me write an important letter and she was trying to get attention by putting on a pair of sunglasses and asking how she looked in them. I had never seen her act like that before. And I was really shocked she would behave like that during something that was so serious for me. She had always been so caring and considerate in the past.

She was also getting very assertive about how much I needed her and everything will be much better now she's here. And doing other weird things like making a face when I got an sms on my phone as if I'm such a loser with no friends that's weird that Gerbah gets an sms (??? Ok, I don't try to be special friends with everyone including the florist and supermarket people but I am able to make friends with people I like!). She was generally being very passive-aggressive and rude.

This doesn't sound INFJ to me, even unhealthy INFJ. If you say she made friends with "everyone including the florist and supermarket people" I think that'd be a sign of extroversion rather than introversion. An unhealthy, manipulative ENFJ perhaps?

 

[Halla74]

... but I do know that INFJs hold the people close to them to a higher standard that they do to others.

And sometimes this reinforces us to be our best. It's not always bad, especially if living up to those standards is recognized.

 

[LotsOfHeart]

You know, I never really felt like my standards for other people, even those close to me, were exceedingly high. Actually, kind of the contrary. I am just happy if I can find anyone who will make any kind of effort to be my friend, so I really can't be that judgemental. That said, I have a certain need for space, and if anyone violates it too badly, which has happened before, I tend to either hold them back with one hand or in extreme cases, doorslam them. That rarely happens, though, and I only do it when people smother me so much I feel like I'm going to explode. I can count on one hand how many times this has happened.

For people who I feel are close to me, I treat them better than anyone else. I feel as the few who I can really rely on and trust, they deserve no less. I wish I could rely on more people, but I find most people extremely irrational. Maybe that's just because I'm young.

Anyway the person the OP describes sounds kind of like an INFJ, definitely an IN-something I would guess. The one thing I'll say is that INFJs do seem prone to this problem in some cases, and this may be an example of that. Any INFJ with this problem should be careful to check it. I have a few INFJ friends, and only one has this problem (and he has issues). In general, I most INFJs I've met aren't like that (although I only know a few, we're a rare breed, that's for sure).

 

[Gerbah]

This doesn't sound INFJ to me, even unhealthy INFJ. If you say she made friends with "everyone including the florist and supermarket people" I think that'd be a sign of extroversion rather than introversion. An unhealthy, manipulative ENFJ perhaps?

I don't know much about ENFJs as a type. I'm pretty sure she's introverted though. She said herself once that she is more comfortable with one-on-one interactions than being in groups. She just likes to be personable and warm and make a special feeling with her local florist, etc. She knows it's superficial and she did say to me once something along the lines of that she thinks she actually shouldn't do that so much and should work more on real openness with people. I think she just likes to be charming and get the reassurance that she is a likable person.

 

[Gerbah]

For people who I feel are close to me, I treat them better than anyone else. I feel as the few who I can really rely on and trust, they deserve no less. I wish I could rely on more people, but I find most people extremely irrational. Maybe that's just because I'm young.

That would be the normal thing to do with those close to you who've proved their commitment to you. When this INFJ apologised to me for her behaviour, as a kind of explanation she did say that she can treat her husband badly sometimes but that he just accepts her as she is. I was like, oh. I didn't say anything but I'm sure she picked up my vibe that that kind of thing doesn't square with me.

I've recently been investigating the Enneagram though and a lot of things I've read about unhealthy 4s really resonate with me in relation to this INFJ. I've put the relationship behind me but I do still think about her sometimes despite myself. She was one of the most significant people in my life and I still feel a kind of need to understand what happened.