[NF] NFs with NFs

[Wonkavision]

Here is a descripton of the NF "Mating Style", and of the NF-NF pairing, taken from the following link: Intuitive Feeler (NF)Empathist.

(My apologies if there is another thread about this.)

Relationships are the central concern for the existence of the intuitive feeling (EMPATHIST) type. Values are what matter in life.

As an EMPATHIST you strive for a special union, a mystical connection, a knowledge of the other that is so profound that words aren't needed for communication. The EMPATHIST wants to make a mystical connection with one special partner: growing, learning, understanding, maturing, as a continuous process throughout life.

Coming to know oneself, coming to understand one's needs, one's fears, one's strengths, one's intuition, one's sensitivity: that is the mission of the EMPATHIST.

The EMPATHIST spares no time, energy or commitment in relationships. The EMPATHIST will compromise all other parts of life for the sake of caring, for the sake of satisfying the life-mission.

The EMPATHIST hopes to find a partner to share life's journey. The EMPATHIST seeks a fellow pilgrim open enough and flexible enough to encounter self and mate without pretense or facade, to embrace the unfolding process without reservation, to love unconditionally, to accept another totally and to be accepted in return.

The EMPATHIST generally sees this lifetime as an interlude, a preface to some more cosmic form of existence and being.

Joan of Arc was an EMPATHIST. They thought she was crazy and they burned her at the stake. EMPATHISTs: take this as a serious harbinger of the fate that befalls you idealistic souls who search for a flawless relationship, especially with any of the other temperamental types!

The EMPATHIST is romance personified. The phrase ``falling in love'' was certainly coined to describe this type. Love may come with a glance, a single word.

The object of an EMPATHIST's affection will be called ``dear'' and ``honey'' and original pet names. ``I love you'' will punctuate each phone conversation and note. The EMPATHIST wants to spend every moment with the loved one or at least a lot of time. Taking care of the mate is a reflexive activity for EMPATHISTs, and gift giving is a natural part of any EMPATHIST love relationship.

The EMPATHIST is usually more interested in romantic possibilities than in the day-to-day reality of relationships. Thus, when disillusionment strikes, when the relationship degenerates to humdrum predictability and staleness, the EMPATHIST may immediately begin eying the greener grass on the other side of the fence. Then the honeymoon is usually over for good!

The EMPATHIST can use that characteristic sensitivity to tune in to every ripple of mood and sentiment in a mate. Or the EMPATHIST can become destructively hypersensitive and suspicious. In the course of any relationship, both modes usually occur.

For the EMPATHIST, sex is fraught with meaning. The EMPATHIST overwhelmed by love aches for union. The EMPATHIST, angry about some routine matter, can't think about sex. Everything must be right, the mood, the setting, the person. Sex may always be an on-again, off-again thing for EMPATHISTs in the usual up and down love relationship.

The EMPATHIST's conflicts with all the other types will revolve around definitions of the words relationship and love. The EMPATHIST's meaning for these terms is central to the EMPATHIST identity. The EMPATHIST's frustration and pain over missed communications and hurt feelings are totally incomprehensible to all the other types.

A chronically broken heart is a way of life for many searching, seeking EMPATHISTs.


When Like Likes Like, or
When (NF)Empathists Mate

Stolen glances, romantic meetings, exotic flirtations, painful infatuation, smoldering passion, shivering sighs and shuddering palpitations, willing self-disclosure, tearful pledges of commitment, intense intimacy, and almost mystical fireworks are t he way EMPATHIST-EMPATHIST love relationships begin.

Disillusionment, hypersensitivity, hurt feelings, tears, a cosmic sense of abandonment, and a broken- hearted depression which can be alleviated only by a new romance: that's how EMPATHIST- EMPATHIST love relationships end.

To EMPATHISTs, love is such a roller coaster that other types must wonder if the ``goin' up is worth the comin' down,'' but that's the way passion operates among these temperamental types. These are the relationships that F. Scott Fitzgerald herald ed.

When EMPATHISTs mate, their shared idealism is usually involved: a common quest, a spiritual commitment, a philosophical common-ground.

Relationship, per se, usually is a conscious focus of life, as is the exploration, expression and perfection of self. Combining those two objectives often presses EMPATHIST mates toward a continual redefinition and reworking of the relationship: a process of evolution and growth.

With such change comes a sense of excitement, aliveness, newness; with it, also, comes some degree of turmoil and discomfort.

Growth is the goal, the process, the pitfall and the glory of EMPATHIST-EMPATHIST matings.

When two EMPATHISTS are in a situation which allows them to share their intuition and feeling, they are happiest. That's when the relationship usually works best: sharing a spiritual experience, critiquing a play.

Unfortunately, most real-world relationships involve a certain amount of ``taking care of business'': attending to the sensing and thinking demands of society (working for a living, washing dishes, doing laundry, taking out trash, paying bills, keeping the car running and the house repaired, going to the grocery, the cleaners, the PTA, and such). So, in a typical pair-bonding situation, EMPATHIST couples need to volunteer for, delegate, or otherwise cover the reality chores of living together. And that's not usually an easily hurdled obstacle.

One of the first major adjustments that occurs in most EMPATHIST pairings is that one (or both) of them appears to change type. The one who's less gung-ho as an intuitive may be transformed into an (SP)REALIST or an (SJ)LEGALIST. The one whose preference for feeling is less strong may take on the robes of the ``thinker.'' Pretty soon, you might be hard-pressed to recognize them as EMPATHISTS.

Then, you can bet, one or both feels compromised, dishonest with the inner self, and resentful of the other and of the relationship. ``The grass is always greener'' phenomenon may strike particularly hard when two EMPATHISTS try to carry on a long-term relationship.

Ah, but in its moments of glory, the EMPATHIST couple is the stuff of which sonnets are written! Since communication skills are peak for this temperamental type, speech and writing about love's ups and downs are likely to be part of the relationship : poems, notes, letters, and heartfelt telephone conversations may punctuate the days and nights.

Communication, in a general sense, is of interest to the EMPATHIST couple. Critiquing plays, stories and novels is an accepted dinner-time conversation, and the fine-honing of personal philosophy is usually somewhere at the heart of these sharing experiences. Do EMPATHISTS talk (and talk) about their relationship? Do they breathe?

Two EMPATHISTS together may become ``self-actualization'' junkies: following one personal development or spiritual training experience after another, sharing meaningful books and films, following after one or another guru. When there's no money in the budget for frills, there may still be funds for group therapy or private counseling sessions. The quest for self and identity is unceasing for many, if not most, EMPATHIST types, especially when they can feed off each other's energy and commitment.

In a connected relationship, EMPATHISTs tend to ponder the meaning and significance of every gesture, posture, glance, expression, word and silence. EMPATHISTs, in their own unique way, probably ``work'' at love more than any other type, and when carried to extreme the continual analysis of what everything means can be exhausting, even to another EMPATHIST! It may be very difficult for two EMPATHISTs to ``lighten up'' when it comes to just enjoying a relationship.

In their most intense state of connection, the EMPATHIST pair is almost psychic: anticipating each other's mood swings, wants, needs, fears, dreams, thoughts and aspirations, without ever speaking.

As one EMPATHIST woman put it: ``We have our hard times, sure, but we have times together when we breathe in rhythm; I feel his thoughts. I hurt with him. I sense his joy. And he's capable of feeling me the same way. We can tell each other our deepest thoughts. I wouldn't trade that kind of connection for anything!''

But, when the magic needs a tuneup, the dark side of that EMPATHIST sensitivity may rear its head. Suspicion, paranoia, hypersensitivity, and other products of runaway imagination may pollute every interaction, color every communication.

``Somehow, she got the impression that I was having an affair. I wasn't. I told her I wasn't. Then she got angry because she could accept the fact that there was another person, but not the fact that I was lying. Except there wasn't another person, and I wasn't lying.

''For one crazy minute, I thought it might be easier to lie, tell her I was having an affair that she was right and make her feel better. But I didn't, because I don't like to lie to her!

``Now she says she thinks she knows who the person is a good friend of ours and she's going to confront her. But I'm not having an affair! Now what do I do? When she confronts our friend and she denies it, she'll just assume that it's another lie! I can't win!''

These are some of the troublesome typical pitfalls of the EMPATHIST-EMPATHIST pairing, but we've only been looking at the aspects that are generated by the ``temperamental cornerstone'' of iNtuition and Feeling. As we said in the ``Introduction to Insight,'' these are important characteristics, but not the only ones.

First of all, the partner whose preference for intuition is stronger may see the other as a sensor! And the partner who's most comfortable with ``pure'' feeling may regard the other as a hard-hearted thinking type.

In other words, EMPATHIST couples who differ markedly in the strength of their preferences for feeling and intuition may actually regard each other as ``foreign'' types!

Other important conflicts and misunderstandings may revolve around the dimensions of judging-perception and introversion-extraversion.

For example, an EMPATHIST who prefers judging may consider a perceptive-type partner to be unclear on personal values or inadequately committed to the relationship or to other ``causes.'' The perceptive, in turn, may call the judge narrow-minded and rigid, both in terms of defining the relationship and pursuing personal goals. In either case, they may minimize their areas of compatibility and focus instead on their differences.

By the same token, introverted EMPATHISTS may find their need for peace, privacy, and personal territory continually violated by extraverted EMPATHISTS, whose requests for socializing, contact, conversation, compliments and other strokes and feedback are frustrated by introverted partners.

Neither may recognize the other as a kindred soul because their needs for interaction are so different.

The significance of differences along the introversion-extraversion dimension cannot be overstated. Even though they're both EMPATHIST temperamental types, an ENFP and an INFP represent vastly different personality styles in a close relationship. And an ENFJ and an INFJ may have to work very hard at understanding each other's needs even though they have three out of four of the personality factors in common.

1. NFs, have you been with other NFs?

.....If so, does this description ring true to you?


2. If you are an NF currently in a relationship with another NF, how is it going?

.....What, if any, are the main issues you struggle with?

.....Any tips for other NFs with NFs?


3. If you're curious about the NF-NF pairing, does this description help you at all?


Your feedback would be very much appreciated.

 

[brainheart]

1. NFs, have you been with other NFs?

It's likely that he was.

.....If so, does this description ring true to you?

aspects, maybe if the volume was turned down from 11 to 2. Who wrote this description... a romance novelist?

One of the first major adjustments that occurs in most EMPATHIST pairings is that one (or both) of them appears to change type. The one who's less gung-ho as an intuitive may be transformed into an (SP)REALIST or an (SJ)LEGALIST. The one whose preference for feeling is less strong may take on the robes of the ``thinker.'' Pretty soon, you might be hard-pressed to recognize them as EMPATHISTS.

Then, you can bet, one or both feels compromised, dishonest with the inner self, and resentful of the other and of the relationship. ``The grass is always greener'' phenomenon may strike particularly hard when two EMPATHISTS try to carry on a long-term relationship.

I think this seems quite likely, although I think it also could be true for SFP/NF pairings.

 

[Wonkavision]

aspects, maybe if the volume was turned down from 11 to 2. Who wrote this description... a romance novelist?

LOL--I don't know.

Maybe it was written by an ENFP.

 

[Fidelia]

It seems a little highly coloured to me. I nearly ended up dating an INFP, but he was going through a low point and as such was self-destructing. I think I enjoyed the shared sense of humour, his creativity, thoughtfulness and so on. Overall, I could see how it could work. I've heard people highly recommend ENFJ/INFJ. I think it probably is true though that they end up taking on one of the other three categories in an effort to compensate for weaknesses within the pairing.

Wonka, you and the wife are INFP/ENFP. Do you think it helps that you both use Fi, or would Fi/Fe be a better balance even if it is less comfortable? Do you have any observations for us that would be useful? I've wondered about the NF-NF matchup for some time...

 

[Wonkavision]

Wonka, you and the wife are INFP/ENFP. Do you think it helps that you both use Fi, or would Fi/Fe be a better balance even if it is less comfortable? Do you have any observations for us that would be useful? I've wondered about the NF-NF matchup for some time...

Well, I think that the NF-NF pairing is a great one, for all of the reasons listed in the quote. And I think it's also a challenging one, for all of the reasons listed in the quote.

There are two things in particular which stand out to me:

The EMPATHIST hopes to find a partner to share life's journey. The EMPATHIST seeks a fellow pilgrim open enough and flexible enough to encounter self and mate without pretense or facade, to embrace the unfolding process without reservation, to love unconditionally, to accept another totally and to be accepted in return.

When two EMPATHISTS are in a situation which allows them to share their intuition and feeling, they are happiest. That's when the relationship usually works best: sharing a spiritual experience, critiquing a play.

This is the "glue" holding our marriage together.

We definitely have all of the above.

The challenge really comes in with things like this:

Unfortunately, most real-world relationships involve a certain amount of ``taking care of business'': attending to the sensing and thinking demands of society (working for a living, washing dishes, doing laundry, taking out trash, paying bills, keeping the car running and the house repaired, going to the grocery, the cleaners, the PTA, and such). So, in a typical pair-bonding situation, EMPATHIST couples need to volunteer for, delegate, or otherwise cover the reality chores of living together. And that's not usually an easily hurdled obstacle.

And as far as Fi versus Fe, I think it would be pretty challenging for me to be with a Dominant or Secondary Fe user.

My general discomfort with Fe is certainly part of it, but I think it has more to do with the J preference clashing with my preference for P.

As was stated in the quote:

For example, an EMPATHIST who prefers judging may consider a perceptive-type partner to be unclear on personal values or inadequately committed to the relationship or to other ``causes.'' The perceptive, in turn, may call the judger narrow-minded and rigid, both in terms of defining the relationship and pursuing personal goals. In either case, they may minimize their areas of compatibility and focus instead on their differences.

This seems like a major problem to me.

I think I'm better off with another Perceiver.


I think any two types can have a successful marriage---there are just some inherent challenges for each type match, and I believe that some matches might be better than others.

Though some opposite qualities may be a good compliment, it seems that having similar preferences in certain areas is critical.

I think N-N and S-S is extremely important.

After that, I think that J-J and P-P may be pretty important.

Not sure after that. Maybe the same temperament (NF-NF, SJ-SJ, NT-NT, and SP-SP).


In any case, I think NF-NF is a good match, even with all the challenges that come with it.

 

[the state i am in]

It seems a little highly coloured to me. I nearly ended up dating an INFP, but he was going through a low point and as such was self-destructing. I think I enjoyed the shared sense of humour, his creativity, thoughtfulness and so on. Overall, I could see how it could work. I've heard people highly recommend ENFJ/INFJ. I think it probably is true though that they end up taking on one of the other three categories in an effort to compensate for weaknesses within the pairing.

Wonka, you and the wife are INFP/ENFP. Do you think it helps that you both use Fi, or would Fi/Fe be a better balance even if it is less comfortable? Do you have any observations for us that would be useful? I've wondered about the NF-NF matchup for some time...

i think it works pretty well. it is but one way of grouping priorities, so it makes sense to use these as a guide to understand how you would relate to someone and have similar life goals.

i prefer cognitive functions that i find desirable, agreeable, and complementary. i prefer N doms first and foremost in terms of sheer communicability, but i also have certain enneagram types who inspire me and i find attractive (7, 4, 5, and sometimes 6 and 9 work well for me too). nf is high on the priority list, anyone who doesn't have a strong desire for self-actualization is dead to me, but nt types often have this too- it just sometimes comes in a different package depending on enneagram defense. infps and intps are really viable mates for infj too, i find- enfj would be really tough, i can't imagine myself with enfj or entj.

throughout the course of my life sparks have *almost* exclusively been with other nfs. a few other isfjs and sfps.

 

[Fidelia]

I know, I've thought about all the pros and cons of each letter in a mate. Even theoretically, I can't make it work! I want it all!

I've also thought that it would be better to stick to INFP/ENFP or INFJ/ENFJ if it were NF-NF. Then I wondered if that would leave too many areas where there were gaps that we both were missing.

What do you think about the P vs J thing with some of the classic pairings of INFJ-ENTP or INFP-ENTJ? I really don't know enough NTs in real life or have an extensive enough knowledge of the functions to know if that would be as clashy as the NF-NF fight between J and P.

Do you think Enneagram type makes any difference, or NF subtype if you want to call it that? For example, I know with INFJs there are at least three distinct varieties of them. Does that skew the outcome of different pairings with other NFs?

 

[runvardh]

I find the biggest issue in an NF-NF paring is conflicting values. If the values don't conflict it shouldn't be that bad.

 

[feckn_eejit]

i was with a great ENFJ on and off (mostly on really) for about three and a half years... i fascinated her and drove her crazy at the same time... *unbelievable* chemistry... i loved her a ton and i had (still have) a lot of respect for her... she liked listening to music but did not have a musical fiber in her body, that was a huge downer for me as it's tough not to be able to share at least a bit of my passion with my lover... at the end my tendency to spend too much time off in my own world and lack of daily structure in my life is probably what did it in... LOT of p/j conflicts and as hard as we loved each other we were super good at hurting each other and mindf-ing each other as well... it was INTENSE. big ups and big downs. amazing experience... we taught each other a ton, helped each other a ton, and grew up a lot together. i look forward to something more even keeled and to the "up" next time i'm in a long-term.....

 

[Lady_X]

i think i'm changing my type

 

[Hexis]

I have tried this a couple of times and from the little i read of the description its fairly accurate. However the problems comes from being exactly what we are, beings who entire life philosophy is based and built on a few highly guarded values. When these values clash, their is no hope. End of story.

So if your interested in pairing up with another NF be sure before you do so that you know them well enough that your values wont clash...ever.

 

[feckn_eejit]

So if your interested in pairing up with another NF be sure before you do so that you know them well enough that your values wont clash...ever.

yup!

 

[cascadeco]

Hmm...reading that description actually kinda nauseated me.

But, then, I tend to have preferences for NT men, and more of what I consider a complementary dynamic. NF/NF is almost too much, for me. An excess of feeling; I'd like more of a balance I guess.

I have been in a relationship with an unhealthy ENFP, and with an ENFJ. The relationship with the ENFP was not positive, but that was perhaps mostly due to him not being the healthiest of individuals, and my not knowing enough about myself at that time and asserting my own needs. I also think there was a pretty marked issue with the differing Fi/Fe preference between the two of us, and that caused some problems I think. (I didn't know about cog functions back then, but in hindsight I think Fi/Fe caused big misunderstandings/distrust). The relationship with the ENFJ was fine, although it seemed quite slanted towards being more platonic in nature, and lacked any real passion; we both nurtured and healed one another, in a way, but our personalities were too similar for my liking - for longterm compatibility/growth. In terms of how I'd like relationship dynamics to be and how I see myself best able to grow as a person. I personally would like a little bit more of a contrast and different perspective. I don't feel the ENFJ and I would have pushed or challenged each other enough. It would be like two therapists dating each other - constant assurance/support, yes, but I would like someone who has a different set of strengths than I, such that strengths don't overlap but rather complement, and weaknesses don't overlap either.

 

[Silent Stars]

I'm with an Enneagram 4w3 INFP girl, and that's pretty much how we are. There have been many times where she has seen me as hurtful and whatnot (my F preference is very slight), though the more times she really opened up to me, the more we got to understand each other better, and at this point it doesn't happen any more [her saying I'm being rude/hurtful/insisting that I don't care/etc.].

She's extremely sensitive and has had a lot of problems with trust and paranoia (which is understandable considering the things she's been through), though now she's stopped being paranoid about our relationship and trusts me fully.

She's also much more sensor-ish than I am, though I think a lot of this is due to the fact that she doesn't have very much in her life to engage her Ne (We're working on changing this cause she's getting into more art classes and photography.), which ends up with her falling back on tertiary Si, which is not a good thing because she's had very bad experiences in the past (to the point where she even has post-traumatic stress disorder), and it's been very difficult to get her to not base how she views everything on that. When there's nothing to engage her Ne and keep her mind occupied, she often ends up getting caught in a depressive, self-destructive cycle that's really hard to help her out of.

She's extremely artistically creative and can be surprisingly spontaneous, but she's not particularly intellectual (kinda breaks the stereotype that all intuitives are intellectual, haha), whereas I'm completely the opposite, but this hasn't caused any problems at all, and it actually works quite well for us.

We have a lot of differences, but quite a lot in common too in how we think and feel about things (our "base," I guess you could call it), so we compliment perfectly and are able to help each other grow.

Considering that we've only been together for not quite five months, we've made a remarkable amount of progress, and we're completely committed to each other as well.

 

[sculpting]

I recently tried to go out for drinks with an ENFP guy I work with.

I have been friends with him for a long time. I comforted him awhile back when he was with some sort of thinker chick who kept yelling at him for crying. At that point in time I could establish a real Fi connection on a friendship level as I understood how he was feeling and I knew exactly what he needed.

However at the last minute, when it came to a date, I decided not to go. I cant "think" with him. I cant have intellectual debates and discussions and-good god this sounds horrible-he was too sensitive. I would end up hurting him as I am too direct and mean. Also the Fi connection-it made me feel like I was choking a bit. It felt entrapping.

I chatted a bit with an INFJ friend once-(friends only, as he is married). He says I need to date a strong man who would make me feel like a woman. After giving myself about five seconds to get over wanting to bitch slap his sexist ass, I realized he is picking up on something real. In his mind he sees Fe shades of feminine behavior, however reframing to Fi , I can only trust Fi to someone who is strong enough to protect it. However I also want someone who I can go head to head intellectually with, ie Te.

INFPs I offend, ENFJs and I are like aliens to each other, INFJs I like but the Fe misunderstandings may be problematic. So I dont think NFs would be ideal honestly.

 

[Chunes]

I'm in a relationship with an INFJ and it's every bit as smokin' as the description in the OP reads. It's not even really about avoiding clashing values; we are both so empathetic to the other that we share each other's values for all practical purposes. It's wonderful because we both understand that love is literally understanding. The more I come to understand her, the more I love her. It doesn't really have anything to do with whether I agree with her or not; I find it impossible to hate someone whom I deeply understand.

To drift apart is merely the lack of desire to understand. And it may seem like the more you understand in your partner, the more you take for granted, but I just don't see it like that. That's a thinly veiled way of saying "I know you." It's lazy. People constantly change. If you constantly keep this empathy stream open between the two of you, the love only grows the longer you're together. Only problem with that is, it takes two willing, hardworking people to maintain this conduit, but it's so worth it. My heart aches for these willing souls who do not have a willing partner, or once had.

 

[SillySapienne]

I think I have always fantasized about NF men, ever since I was a young girl.

But, since my father was such a hardcore T, (an INTP to be exact), I repeatedly find myself attracted to T men.

Maybe one day I will stop this madness and do that whole contrary action thing, and find a brilliant INFP zoologist or architect to whisk me off my feet!

 

[SheWaits]

For me, I think the ideal match would be NF with Fe, so another INFJ or an ENFJ. The other two NFs are Fi, and I can envision my face melting off my skull after awhile. No more men who are high Fi or Se. Love them like brothers, but I don't want them as partners.

 

[TopherRed]

The one INFP I dated was dripping with Fi. Drove me crazy. The cutesy-cutesy-key-UTSY! crap all the time drove me bonkers. I still couldn't help being drawn to her though...lake a moth to an open flame.

 

[SheWaits]

The one INFP I dated was dripping with Fi. Drove me crazy. The cutesy-cutesy-key-UTSY! crap all the time drove me bonkers. I still couldn't help being drawn to her though...lake a moth to an open flame.

They're wonderful people. I just get worn out after awhile. It would be refreshing to have a relationship with someone who is more of a giver than a taker for a change.