[MBTI General] Bloody INFPs and their capacity to turn INTJs into fuzzy hug addicts.

[Cranky]

Or perhaps this would work better.

Yes, yes, I'm so mean.

My original question about the mother issues was specifically directed at MALEs of the INFP persuasion. I was trying to figure out why the sensitive NF dudes are all so afraid of being emotionally manipulated.

What I was wondering was whether or not it requires some sort of emotional crucible to make you all cuddly and feely, and whether that same experience actually causes you to be much more afraid of that real emotional connection--or eternally seeking the perfect connection. If that is the case, can any woman actually measure up to the male INFP's desire for perfection?

 

[Biaxident]

Yes, yes, I'm so mean.

My original question about the mother issues was specifically directed at MALEs of the INFP persuasion. I was trying to figure out why the sensitive NF dudes are all so afraid of being emotionally manipulated.

What I was wondering was whether or not it requires some sort of emotional crucible to make you all cuddly and feely, and whether that same experience actually causes you to be much more afraid of that real emotional connection--or eternally seeking the perfect connection. If that is the case, can any woman actually measure up to the male INFP's desire for perfection?

From my perspective, it's because I have been manipulated in one way or another, most of my life.

No. I was already that way, but in real life I am much more selective about who I care about, since physical contact is a distinct possibility, than on here. I am not afraid of it, just wary.

To the second part.
No, but I realize it. And I try not to make every woman I speak to, the holy grail of possible relationships. Relationships are work, lots of work, from both sides.

 

[Cranky]

From my perspective, it's because I have been manipulated in one way or another, most of my life.

No. I was already that way, but in real life I am much more selective about who I care about, since physical contact is a distinct possibility, than on here. I am not afraid of it, just wary.

To the second part.
No, but I realize it. And I try not to make every woman I speak to, the holy grail of possible relationships. Relationships are work, lots of work, from both sides.

Ok, then, a deeper question, which is probably going to the root of what may have gone wrong with me and Mr. I-Really-Thought-He-Was-Perfect.

I mentioned before that it would be utterly stupid to try to manipulate me, since all he'd have to do would be to say "If you really loved me, you'd make me eggs and rub my back," and I would proceed to do so, because I love him.

I wouldn't have the faintest clue how to manipulate him, nor would I really want to. He kept looking for me to try to manipulate him, and I think he had a really hard time believing that when I said something, I meant quite literally what I meant; there's pretty much never any subtext when I'm talking, making a request, or asking a question.

Is the problem not only that he kept waiting for me to try to manipulate him, but that I simply lacked the emotional complexity he was looking for? I found his MIND to be complex enough to keep me entertained for life; did he need someone whose FEELINGS were complex enough to keep him entertained?

There's not really any gradation or complexity to what I feel for him. It sounds like "LOOOOOOOOVVVEEE!!!!" inside my head, with nothing but the purity of that feeling to color it.

Was I literally too simplistic for him to be interested in me on the emotional level?

 

[runvardh]

I can see being worried about you hiding maliciousness just to suck him in enough then crack him once he's vulnerable. I have similar fears, but a girl who doesn't play the game would be nice. It's just learning how to recognize them when they show up.

 

[Biaxident]

Was I literally too simplistic for him to be interested in me on the emotional level?

For him? Possibly.

But I would find it nice to know my significant other doesn't have any subtext, or doubts. I spend all day, every day, reading every person I see, meet, talk to, or think about. It's exhausting.

Just knowing that one person in my life doesn't have any equivocations about their deepest feelings for me would make me ecstatic.

 

[the state i am in]

Ok, then, a deeper question, which is probably going to the root of what may have gone wrong with me and Mr. I-Really-Thought-He-Was-Perfect.

I mentioned before that it would be utterly stupid to try to manipulate me, since all he'd have to do would be to say "If you really loved me, you'd make me eggs and rub my back," and I would proceed to do so, because I love him.

I wouldn't have the faintest clue how to manipulate him, nor would I really want to. He kept looking for me to try to manipulate him, and I think he had a really hard time believing that when I said something, I meant quite literally what I meant; there's pretty much never any subtext when I'm talking, making a request, or asking a question.

Is the problem not only that he kept waiting for me to try to manipulate him, but that I simply lacked the emotional complexity he was looking for? I found his MIND to be complex enough to keep me entertained for life; did he need someone whose FEELINGS were complex enough to keep him entertained?

There's not really any gradation or complexity to what I feel for him. It sounds like "LOOOOOOOOVVVEEE!!!!" inside my head, with nothing but the purity of that feeling to color it.

Was I literally too simplistic for him to be interested in me on the emotional level?

i think you're on the right track. but it's not just simplicity, my intj and i go to bat at times bc when she really gets cranking she gets super Te and i find that off-putting, initially, and it takes a lot for me to tune into that. an infp will find Te immediately stressful bc it is an inferior function, some infps especially 5s can probably go with it easier. i'm sure he also had serious trouble believing that your Fi was so pure and transparent for him, or figuring out how your Fi related to what his Fi needed, what he personally thought was perfect/ideal. even tho you were at your gushiest, inf males especially with e4 in their blood tend to not hear others bc they are so self-absorbed. i struggle with this mightily, she keeps coming back with open hands and i refuse to hear her unless she does it in exactly the perfect way to unlock me. it's kinda ridiculous, but, ya know, at this point, we are what we are. some of us need some major improvements in this area and we know it. it's bc we invest so much in self-actualizing and feel worried about not actualizing our full potential, and desperately desiring that others will help us do this, validate us, love us, etc. yet how can we be so picky when it comes to receiving love, why are specific forms of it so important? Fe and Fi are different in this regard, but the pickiness remains the same. (hint: part of this is bc these feelings make up our self-identity, our sense of who we are, we are invested in them and at our best and worst, our ultimate expressions of ourselves. infp even more so bc Fi is their dominant function, whereas infj is Ni dom first like you so the SEEING is more of our primary identity, altho the aux Fe makes it come on real strong too enough to make it so that growing up i was not personally close to a single T person. we are our F by expressing them more than anything else in their most natural languages, the languages where they can speak the most directly, passionately, richly, complexly).

one of the greatest self-improvement aspects of being in a relationship with my intj is using T to hear the languages of T, recognizing when someone is doing something for you and valuing your objectives, goals, etc. she isn't a slave to my desires but she does VERYMUCH want to make me happy. that is a larger part of how she expresses Fi, more than swimming around and relating it all over all sloppily and with words and gestures like us nf types are used to doing.

also Ni looks untrustworthy at times. sometimes one of us will say "where'd you GO?" when one of us is looking anxious or nervous or worried about something. we are much better when we communicate these worries.

and you can say there's no subtext but that just means that you don't/aren't considering it. there is always subtext. recognizing it is 100% of what inf males do. you may not be consciously relating in a personal way when you communicate things, suggesting roles, imparting personal values and judgments about the self of you and the other, but the communication process involves that almost always for inf males. this is the Te dislike we have at times, but we can learn to understand it eventually.

 

[Cranky]

Just knowing that one person in my life doesn't have any equivocations about their deepest feelings for me would make me ecstatic.

It made him run away. How am I supposed to feel like this again and not be terrified that simply loving someone that much will make them go away?

 

[Biaxident]

It made him run away. How am I supposed to feel like this again and not be terrified that simply loving someone that much will make them go away?

I don't have an answer. If I did, I would tell you.

 

[Udog]

It made him run away. How am I supposed to feel like this again and not be terrified that simply loving someone that much will make them go away?

The sun is not diminished by the creatures that shun it. Let them stick to the lonely, dark shadows. Eventually you'll find someone that thrives off of the warmth you can offer.

It's likely that it wouldn't have worked out anyway, and that your opening up to him just made the process occur quicker. Like I said before, the thing you take away is the realization that a man that can't (or more specifically, won't) provide the answers you need isn't a man you ultimately could be happy with. Think about it - do you think you could have been happy long term with him, even 5 years from now when he still can't be honest with you about his emotions?

I wonder what he said to affect you so, because I've known INFPs to say some really horrible stuff because they know it will strike the other person's core, and as such is a good way to emotionally manipulate them. He may not have actually cared about what he actually said, just what it would do to you.

 

[Cranky]

and you can say there's no subtext but that just means that you don't/aren't considering it. there is always subtext. recognizing it is 100% of what inf males do. you may not be consciously relating in a personal way when you communicate things, suggesting roles, imparting personal values and judgments about the self of you and the other, but the communication process involves that almost always for inf males.

I guess it would be fair to say that what I did around him, I did with the motive of being attractive and appealing. Still, that's more being FEMALE than INTJ lolzz...they sell us lipstick and skirts from the time we're 7 and tell us that this is how you catch a man.

I don't have an answer. If I did, I would tell you.

Well, at least you're being honest.

Back to bawling over blues piano.

Ain't no sunshine when he's gone,
it's not warm when he's away.
Ain't no sunshine when he's gone,
and he's always gone too long
anytime he goes away.

Wonder, this time where he's gone,
wonder if he's gonna stay
Ain't no sunshine when he's gone,
and this house just ain't no home,
anytime he goes away.

And i know,i know, i know, i know, i know
i know,i know, i know, i know, i know
i know,i know, i know, i know, i know
i know,i know, i know, i know, i know
i know, hey i ought to leave the young thing alone,

But ain't no sunshine when he's gone,
only darkness everyday.
Ain't no sunshine when he's gone,
and this house just ain't no home,
anytime he goes away.

Anytime he goes away, anytime he goes away
Anytime he goes away......

(Notably, I'm getting better. )

 

[Cranky]

I wonder what he said to affect you so, because I've known INFPs to say some really horrible stuff because they know it will strike the other person's core, and as such is a good way to emotionally manipulate them. He may not have actually cared about what he actually said, just what it would do to you.

Stuff. Don't really want to go into the conversation. Suffice it to say I had no idea he could be that cold.


AAAAAANNNNNDDDD more blues piano...

 

[LEGERdeMAIN]

play me some muddy waters.

 

[Cranky]

play me some muddy waters.

Ok.

I don't want you to be no slave
I don't want you to work all day
I don't want you to be true
I just want to make love to you

I don't want you to wash my clothes
I don't want you to keep my home
I don't want your money too
I just want to make love to you

Well I can see by the way that you switch and walk
And I can tell by the way that you baby talk
And I know by the way that you treat your man
I wanna love you baby, it's a cryin' shame

I don't want you to bake my bread
I don't want you to make my bed
I don't want you cause I'm sad and blue
I just want to make love to you

I actually have the swing down now too ;-)

 

[Udog]

Stuff. Don't really want to go into the conversation. Suffice it to say I had no idea he could be that cold.

That's okay, I wasn't really asking. That's way too personal.

However, there's a pretty good chance that whatever he said was a lie. When INFPs lash out to hurt, some of will start off with a kernel of truth, but then distort and twist it so that it does maximum damage.

 

[Biaxident]

That's okay, I wasn't really asking. That's way too personal.

However, there's a pretty good chance that whatever he said was a lie. When INFPs lash out to hurt, some of will start off with a kernel of truth, but then distort and twist it so that it does maximum damage.

Make it so they are the injured party, and innocent.

 

[Udog]

Make it so they are the injured party, and innocent.

Aw... I think under some circumstances something like that can be understandable.

I've seen INFPs do that even when they aren't the innocent party, though. I somehow doubt Cranky did something damaging and unjust to this guy. Her biggest crime seems to have been not letting it drop when he started pulling away, and then cornering him. If he really did start it, she deserved to have answers, though. Hardly unjust.

She picked up on his internal strength (which is likely why she had such a positive opinion of him), but failed to notice that he's not very functional when it comes to being a human being interacting with other humans.

 

[Biaxident]

Aw... I think under some circumstances something like that can be understandable.

I've seen INFPs do that even when they aren't the innocent party, though. I somehow doubt Cranky did something damaging and unjust to this guy. Her biggest crime seems to have been not letting it drop when he started pulling away, and then cornering him. If he really did start it, she deserved to have answers, though. Hardly unjust.

She picked up on his internal strength (which is likely why she had such a positive opinion of him), but failed to notice that he's not very functional when it comes to being a human being interacting with other humans.

I'm sure if we think about it we have all done it occasionally. Just not to the extreme.

 

[jtanSis1]

Two things first, INFP's can see the inner core of people since that's where they live in themselves, and try to bring that out in others. Second, the more wounded inside you are, (ie. ice queen) the more they want to be near you until you are healed, then they make the choice if they are attracted to you or not. They do this because they really want someone who has already dealt with their issues, and can be mature about life and love. So don't take it too personally, we are healers first, lovers second.

 

[Cranky]

Aw... I think under some circumstances something like that can be understandable.

I've seen INFPs do that even when they aren't the innocent party, though. I somehow doubt Cranky did something damaging and unjust to this guy. Her biggest crime seems to have been not letting it drop when he started pulling away, and then cornering him. If he really did start it, she deserved to have answers, though. Hardly unjust.

She picked up on his internal strength (which is likely why she had such a positive opinion of him), but failed to notice that he's not very functional when it comes to being a human being interacting with other humans.

I didn't do anything damaging or unjust to him; if anything, he did to me on several occasions. I simply assumed that (like me) he wouldn't have been aware of it, and brushed it off until I could no longer do so. I tried everything in my power to not corner him or push him, but there does come a point where one needs to start getting closer to the other person, or start getting over them. I reached that point, and simply couldn't take it anymore.

And he CERTAINLY did start it with me. The first moves were all his. I'm not going to say they were UNWELCOME but they were all his. I don't even know if he's ever been in a functional adult relationship (I haven't either to be fair, but I've been BUSY); honestly, the women he dated seemed kinda broken. I don't really need any fixing, and if I did, I wouldn't need his help with the repairs. I like me the way I am, and so do my friends and family. I'm quite capable of running my life without his help. Maybe he just needs to be needed.

 

[jtanSis1]

read my previous post