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[NF] P is for Perfectionism

Charmed Justice

Nickle Iron Silicone
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Jul 22, 2009
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2,805
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INFJ
As I understand, fives seek to understand things, in hope that they can become more competent. Sevens seek to try lots of things, in hope that they will find what they really want.
I test as a 7w8, but I have a huge knack for researching and exploring a million angles before I make certain decisions. I don't know what decisions those are or how I determine when to make a giant leap, and when to think things through indefinitely. The process, rather or not I act on impulse or not, seems randomly and emotionally driven.
 

Charmed Justice

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I think the problem is that since P's aren't goal-oriented, they don't know what they want. They do know what they don't want or like, and that's where the perfectionism comes in. And since they can't motivate themselves the way J's can, they stop. They don't have the will-power to push themselves through to the end. Once the inspiration is gone, the action is gone, and they move on to something else, and the cycle repeats. This can also be attributed to their impulsivity.
Any thoughts?
I don't think it's that we can't motivate ourselves the way a J can. It's more that we see no reason to. Ps are often risk taskers and rebels with very strong wills. Our desire for perfectionism may actually stem from the strength of our wills, not the lack of them.
 

Drezoryx

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^ perfectionism probably stems from the fact that as kids our view of the world is narrow and we focus single mindedly on one thing, impress others, get our admiration and try repeating this. type 3

as we grow older so many things come into our focus that we try and repeat this this strategy on everything. so we end up spreading ourselves too thin. type 7

we just need to sort out whats imp and apply the type 3 behaviour again. refocus. let the admiration flow back and we'll move out of the rut.
 

Lady_X

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I think it needs to be pointed out that Perfection is an illusion. An impossible standard. A great way to drive yourself insane. I'm such a J, that I'm going to have a hard time understanding a lot of you "P"s. I thought Perfectionism was a J trait. J's usually are very goal oriented with very high standards. I know that I would get frustrated with myself if I thought I wasn't putting enough effort into something, because I set impossibly high standards for myself. I was the kind of kid who would get a 97% on a test and obsess about the 3 questions I got wrong instead of the 97 I got right. I wouldn't give myself enough credit.

I thought P's didn't care enough to be perfectionists. They seem so easy-going and flexible, that I could see them going "That's good enough."

I think the problem is that since P's aren't goal-oriented, they don't know what they want. They do know what they don't want or like, and that's where the perfectionism comes in. And since they can't motivate themselves the way J's can, they stop. They don't have the will-power to push themselves through to the end. Once the inspiration is gone, the action is gone, and they move on to something else, and the cycle repeats. This can also be attributed to their impulsivity.

Any thoughts?

yeah...totally need to care enough..be inspired in some way...and we do have goals...they're just a different sort perhaps...but yes if i set a goal or am inspired to do something...i want to do it exactly the way i think it ought to be done...or i'll blow it off...but i can get quite pissy about it if it's important to me.

this does not pertain to any sort of life maintenance type task usually.
 

Charmed Justice

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^ perfectionism probably stems from the fact that as kids our view of the world is narrow and we focus single mindedly on one thing, impress others, get our admiration and try repeating this. type 3

as we grow older so many things come into our focus that we try and repeat this this strategy on everything. so we end up spreading ourselves too thin. type 7
Hm, I rarely feel like I'm doing enough though; although, when I list out everything I'm doing and all the things I've accomplished in short periods of time, I do see a different story. It's almost like my view of my own actions is out of sync with what I'm actually doing. I think it has a lot to do with what Lady X said(I think:smile:). A lot of Ptype focus is not valued in mainstream society, so we grow up often hearing that we're lazy or unmotivated, when really that's not true. We come to believe it though, so we drive ourselves mad trying to be "better than", without even knowing it.
 

lamp

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I could see them going "That's good enough."
I often get criticized for not 'half-assing' things enough. And I would say I have achieved perfection at various points in my life, not that perfection cannot also be 'impossible'.

Your post comes off as a bit snarky. No need to apologize, just is not great for your image.
 

Drezoryx

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A lot of Ptype focus is not valued in mainstream society, so we grow up often hearing that we're lazy or unmotivated, when really that's not true. .

whether valued or not atleast work will get accomplished once the perfectionism is either applied to one task or a relaxed standard is adopted in all tasks simulataneously

"we grow up" - this does show experience of kids being admired for their work and eventually spreading thin holds water... solution might lie in exploring your own past and figuring out till what age this strategy worked and at what point it started to fail and why. once thats done u'll be able extricate yourself and get more work done regularly both what u value and whats valued in mainstream.
 

Lady_X

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^^ that post bugs me...just sayin...

that attitude of needing to do it the "right" way..blech

people just have different strengths ya know...
 

Drezoryx

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^i agree with u there r many ways i just suggested one of em, a bit clinical perhaps.
 

Bushranger

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P ~=
Breadth first search
Research problem space exhaustively before progression
Evaluate return -> do stuff
Minimise wasted effort

J ~=
Depth first search
Research problems as they arise
Do stuff -> evaluate return
Minimise wasted time
 

Drezoryx

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^ LOL

i repeat

^^ that post bugs me...just sayin...

that attitude of needing to do it the "right" way..blech

people just have different strengths ya know...
 

Snuggletron

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I think it needs to be pointed out that
I think the problem is that since P's aren't goal-oriented, they don't know what they want. They do know what they don't want or like, and that's where the perfectionism comes in. And since they can't motivate themselves the way J's can, they stop. They don't have the will-power to push themselves through to the end. Once the inspiration is gone, the action is gone, and they move on to something else, and the cycle repeats. This can also be attributed to their impulsivity.

Any thoughts?

it's fair to say this may hold some truth, at least from my own account. I'm known to not start 'x' at all because of my lack of knowing whether or not I'll hold the same motivation all the way through or not. It can be embarrassing when you start something big, get excited and alert the entire universe, and then a bit later decide you want to do something else.

This equals a 'LAZY' or 'UNCOMMITTED' label. I'm not sure if being an NFP magnifies this problem, but it seems to.
 

William K

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I was the kind of kid who would get a 97% on a test and obsess about the 3 questions I got wrong instead of the 97 I got right. I wouldn't give myself enough credit.

I thought P's didn't care enough to be perfectionists. They seem so easy-going and flexible, that I could see them going "That's good enough."

Well for me, it depends on whether something is important enough. When I was in school, I knew I was smart enough to pass all my subjects with minimal studying, so I'd just study perhaps a couple of days before each exam. My parents would usually be tearing their hair out and biting their fingernails. But when the results come out, I'd usually score in the 70s to 80s. Would I get a much higher score if I studied more? Maybe but I didn't really care for it at all. Why spend 100% of effort and time to get 85%, when I can spend 50% of effort, enjoy life and still get 75%?

Similarly in my IT research work now, my boss knows that I'm good at developing algorithms and prototypes but not when it comes to the itty-bitty details of making it ready for the market. So, he pairs me up with someone(s) who can polish off all the rough edges and makes it into a product.

The time I have trouble with perfectionism, is when I have to communicate with other people. For example, every single word that I'm writing in this reply is going through an extremely harsh internal critic who will question how anyone reading is going to react and what impression I am giving them. It doesn't even matter if what I'm saying is 'correct'. As long as there is room for questions and criticisms, the self-doubt will start creeping in and I'll try to make the words as perfect as possible. A lot of times, the self-doubt is so bad that I'll just give up and keep my thoughts to myself.
 

Poki

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I do understand where your coming from. Sometimes when you get in your head, the optimistic nature can see all the different ways that a situation could work out to be perfect. How everything can tie together to create this master piece. How every person can fit, what they can provide. But things keep coming up, the master piece is never realized, people let you down, things get screwed up. You being a dynamic person keep trying to flex, to bend, but eventually have to give up on this "perfection".

Is this what your talking about?
 

Clonester

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I know that I would get frustrated with myself if I thought I wasn't putting enough effort into something, because I set impossibly high standards for myself. I was the kind of kid who would get a 97% on a test and obsess about the 3 questions I got wrong instead of the 97 I got right. I wouldn't give myself enough credit.

I thought P's didn't care enough to be perfectionists. They seem so easy-going and flexible, that I could see them going "That's good enough."

I think the problem is that since P's aren't goal-oriented, they don't know what they want. They do know what they don't want or like, and that's where the perfectionism comes in. And since they can't motivate themselves the way J's can, they stop. They don't have the will-power to push themselves through to the end. Once the inspiration is gone, the action is gone, and they move on to something else, and the cycle repeats. This can also be attributed to their impulsivity.

1- Your 97% test example is exactly the same as me. I find my perfectionism is very private. I expect it of myself. Not of others. And other probably don't know I expect it of myself.

2- P's are easygoing and flexible in many ways. It's more we like to keep our schedules open. But I NEVER go 'that's good enough.'

3- WHOA. "P's aren't goal oriented." WHAT?! I'm ALL ABOUT GOALS. I set goals all the time for myself in all areas of my life. And I work VERY hard to reach my goals. I thought that setting goals was very much an all across the board NF trait, regardless of the J or P. And certainly an N trait since N's always think future.
 

Lady_X

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1- Your 97% test example is exactly the same as me. I find my perfectionism is very private. I expect it of myself. Not of others. And other probably don't know I expect it of myself.

2- P's are easygoing and flexible in many ways. It's more we like to keep our schedules open. But I NEVER go 'that's good enough.'

3- WHOA. "P's aren't goal oriented." WHAT?! I'm ALL ABOUT GOALS. I set goals all the time for myself in all areas of my life. And I work VERY hard to reach my goals. I thought that setting goals was very much an all across the board NF trait, regardless of the J or P. And certainly an N trait since N's always think future.

yep totally...that's just like me too
 

Charmed Justice

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yep totally...that's just like me too
Me too. I have goals and all. They usually aren't very specific though, and I can and will drop them when something else comes my way that seems more interesting or profitable in some way. We are so misunderstood.:D
 

Drezoryx

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@op this thread is dragging on and manifesting the exact qualities u r complaining about. do u want a closure or just dilatory discussion? from the seriousness of the issue described in op it seemed like u wanted decent understanding and a closure to take some action IRL.
 

Poki

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Me too. I have goals and all. They usually aren't very specific though, and I can and will drop them when something else comes my way that seems more interesting or profitable in some way. We are so misunderstood.:D

This is one of the scary things about ENFPs. I had a conversation with my wife about something that she had done and how it affects what I see and think. I was explaining how when you realize what some people are capable of, you not only see what they can do, but how it can turn on you. At this point all you have left is trust, trust that this person will not use it in a malicious way against you. The only people in life you can trust are the ones that love you. These are the people who I have noticed will not turn on you because of fear of losing that love.

I hide what I am capable of alot because I dont want people to fear it.
 
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