[ENFP] Hate an ENFP? Tell us why!

[Lauren Ashley]

I often don't bother with correcting ENFPs because they take criticism so poorly and don't often change their ways. It seems pointless then to me to even take action because the cost outweighs the benefit until things get out of hand.

Ditto this. Wow, I've been agreeing with nearly every comment in the last few pages.

 

[Moiety]

I often don't bother with correcting ENFPs because they take criticism so poorly and don't often change their ways. It seems pointless then to me to even take action because the cost outweighs the benefit until things get out of hand.

More seriously though, the only way to make me change my ways is to prove me I'm harming others in the process.

Remember, you are talking with ENFPs here. We are generally happy and easy-going and get along with most. If there's something that needs changing it better be for a good enough reason. We aren't gonna change just to please you. That's not how we role.

 

[Tiny Army]

I often don't bother with correcting ENFPs because they take criticism so poorly and don't often change their ways. It seems pointless then to me to even take action because the cost outweighs the benefit until things get out of hand.

This is exactly my experience with INFPs and ENFJs. Also about INFPs: telling me how you felt negatively about something I said isn't criticism. It is you airing your grievances and I mostly don't care. If you can provide actual constructive criticism as opposed to "This was mean and it hurt my feelings and don't do that again" then I will listen. If all I have to go on was that I upset someone (someone who I already think is waaaaaay to sensitive) then I am going to slot that shit away with "unhelpful information."

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Yes, because I'm trying to explain an unjustifiably dramatic behaviour on the ENFPs part, which is what they were hinting at, from what I understood. That's the only way I could see myself even remotely riled up, anyway.

No, the ones I know just get defensive that you are criticizing them. They seem to be blind to any faults that they have and instead blame it on the circumstances or interpretation of events. I don't believe I've ever seen an ENFP (irl) admit to a fault. This behavior seems counterproductive to the NF goal of self-awareness and improvement.

 

[Lady_X]

I often don't bother with correcting ENFPs because they take criticism so poorly and don't often change their ways. It seems pointless then to me to even take action because the cost outweighs the benefit until things get out of hand.

hmm...i haven't caught up but...just as response to this. who are you to be correcting enfps anyway...do we walk around trying to correct you? i doubt it...i sure as hell don't do that so if we don't seem to love criticism or being corrected it has a lot to do with personal rights ya know...like you do what you want and i'll do what i want...ya know...people need to stop expecting others to follow their rules and they won't be disappointed.

 

[Moiety]

No, the ones I know just get defensive that you are criticizing them. They seem to blind to any faults that they have and instead blame it on the circumstances or interpretation of events. I don't believe I've ever seen an ENFP (irl) admit to a fault. This behavior seems counterproductive to the NF goal of self-awareness and improvement.

You know what? I'd like to get to the bottom of this, but I think I'd need some concrete examples.

I will say I believe more in my ability to read others than other abilities to read me (dunno if that is true for all ENFPs). I guess that's why they call the ENFP the "psychologist" in some instances too...

hmm...i haven't caught up but...just as response to this. who are you to be correcting enfps anyway...do we walk around trying to correct you? i doubt it...i sure as hell don't do that so if we don't seem to love criticism or being corrected it has a lot to do with personal rights ya know...like you do what you want and i'll do what i want...ya know...people need to stop expecting others to follow their rules and they won't be disappointed.

Agreed, and something that should probably have been mentioned by now. There's a reason you don't see hippies enslaving people in Africa. Being free spirited is about "live and let live".

 

[ajblaise]

No, the ones I know just get defensive that you are criticizing them. They seem to blind to any faults that they have and instead blame it on the circumstances or interpretation of events. I don't believe I've ever seen an ENFP (irl) admit to a fault. This behavior seems counterproductive to the NF goal of self-awareness and improvement.

This is pretty much what I've noticed. I think ENFPs are much more likely to accept faults and go over past criticism when they are alone and Fi-ing out.

 

[Rhapsody]

No, no I do this too. I'm a giant flake but when I plan, I plan like a MOTHERFUCKER. Unfortunately if other people mess up the plan I get pissed. About as pissed as I get at myself whenever I am in a difficult situation caused entirely by my own lack of planning.

LOL, ok, yeah, this is my friend to a T. And that's a good point that she must get pissed at herself for her flakiness, too, but that's harder to see since she'd just keep that to herself.

My ex ENFP roommate was the biggest hypocrite that ever lived. And the whole not acknowledging criticism thing resonates well. I'm hanging out with a male ENFP right now and he doesn't seem to be like that. He's in his late twenties though so perhaps he's an enlightened ENFP lol.

The friend I was talking about can really come across as a hypocrite, too, passionately espousing one belief and then acting in complete opposition to it a few months down the line. I've always thought this was because of her Ne shifting to a new perspective, though—i.e. she had actually changed her beliefs by the time she changed her actions, but because she hadn't notified the outside world about it her actions looked hypocritical. I don't know if this is what you're talking about with your roommate, though!

Any type can be hypocritical, though, and it's definitely not a label I would slap on most ENFPs. My dad is an ENFP, and he's one of the most self-actualized human beings I know. Mature ENFPs are amazing. (Although if you asked my mom she'd probably beg to differ )

 

[Lauren Ashley]

You know what? I'd like to get to the bottom of this, but I think I'd need some concrete examples.

Here's a concrete example:

ENFP guy is consistently flaking out on people. He makes promises and never keeps them. He allows people to put their trust in him and doesn't follow through. I say "Hey ENFP guy! What are you doing? Why bother making plans you don't keep?" He replies "I forgot/something came up." After a few more discussions about this same behavior he will say "Why don't people just get off my back? I need to do my own thing. I'm not hurting anybody." In effect blaming the circumstances, and other people and their interpretations.

I will say I believe more in my ability to read others than other abilities to read me (dunno if that is true for all ENFPs). I guess that's why they call the ENFP the "psychologist" in some instances too.

What a trite remark. Nearly every NF believes this. It is hardly true, and actually irrelevant to what we're discussing. No one is reading into anything; this is blatant behavior.

 

[Tiny Army]

You know what? I'd like to get to the bottom of this, but I think I'd need some concrete examples.

Me, too! I think this is incredibly interesting because I cannot NOT think about criticisms of me. I have to mull them over in my head because I cannot let go of the possibility that they are right and will not stop until this possibility has been explored fully.

I have found the criticisms of other NFs to be vague and difficult to understand (not as much the INFJs, though. They're pretty straightforward). I do think about them but it often comes down to the other NF was annoyed because they misunderstood my intentions and even then I always apologise for my tone/ my phrasing/ some other perceived discourtesy. It is often a matter of what they heard vs. what I actually said (or felt I said) and I do try to clear that up.

I will say I believe more in my ability to read others than other abilities to read me (dunno if that is true for all ENFPs). I guess that's why they call the ENFP the "psychologist" in some instances too...

Man, it is my belief in my ability to read people that gets me into trouble most often. I have decided to stop listening to the voice in my head that believes it understands the motivations of others. That little voice is full of shit. This is easier said than done, obviously.

Agreed, and something that should probably have been mentioned by now. There's a reason you don't see hippies enslaving people in Africa. Being free spirited is about "live and let live".

This I disagree with. I criticise people all the time. I find that the best way to resolve a situation is to discuss it. I do not believe in the validity of emotionally motivated criticisms. Everything can be resolved if everyone is open about their feelings and orients themselves off the facts of a situation. The truth is probably the best way to actually solve an interpersonal problem.

 

[jenocyde]

Also there's something I don't understand in others which is, if they have a problem why don't they voice them right away.
Lauren : get a grip! Always hating on the ENFPs.

I always always do. It's just not appreciated. Or even listened to. I repeat myself too often with a lot of ENFPs, so I tend to just keep them at a distance now.

I don't know what you considering bitch territory but from my experience, if I generally get along well with everybody (i never really had a big argument with any of my friends) is because I kill conflict right away by embracing it. Speak my mind at all times.

Yeah. I think what I meant by self-control was knowing how to separate the true feelings from all the stress. I was just trying to make it clear I think facing things head on is healthier in the long run. It's an important skill to perfect.

Well you are certainly an anomaly. I find that most ENFPs I know are the first ones to hold it all in until an uncontrollable outburst happens and everything flows out.

I have 3 separate ENFP friends that always freak out if I say "hey, can you stop doing x,y and z?" and then later they will call and apologize for overreacting (and expect an apology from me for bringing it up), but the damage has already been done. It doesn't encourage me to bring anything up in their presence because it gets to be an emotional showdown.

I love them and they are wonderful people, but just this one aspect is troublesome for me, as I'm sure I annoy them as well.

 

[Moiety]

Here's a concrete example:

ENFP guy is consistently flaking out on people. He makes promises and never keeps them. He allows people to put their trust in him and doesn't follow through. I say "Hey ENFP guy! What are you doing? Why bother making plans you don't keep?" He replies "I forgot/something came up" After a few more discussions about this same behavior he will say "Why don't people just get off my back? I need to do my own thing. I'm not hurting anybody." In effect blaming the circumstances, and other people and their interpretations.

Yeah, I never really make promises unless I really mean them, because I understand how volatile certain stuff is.

I do think people idealize ENFPs a bit, though. We are very independent. I'm always very careful how I word stuff. "Let me know if you need help" means just that. I'm not vouching help whenever. I'm letting the other person know I'll help if I can. There are ways to make it more decisive though, and I keep those for when I really want to help the person no matter what.

What a trite remark. Nearly every NF believes this. It is hardly true, and actually irrelevant to what we're discussing. No one is reading into anything, this is blatant behavior.

I was talking about people interpreting our behavior a certain way. Like taking issue with something like Jenocyde talked about. Not the actual thing in that particular case, but what lies beneath for us - matters of principle. People misinterpret my reasons for saying this or doing that all the time.

And I was admitting to what could be perceived as a fault (me thinking I'm better at reading others then they are). Maybe this right here is an example of the kind of miscommunication I'm talking about.

 

[Tiny Army]

Here's a concrete example:

ENFP guy is consistently flaking out on people. He makes promises and never keeps them. He allows people to put their trust in him and doesn't follow through. I say "Hey ENFP guy! What are you doing? Why bother making plans you don't keep?" He replies "I forgot/something came up." After a few more discussions about this same behavior he will say "Why don't people just get off my back? I need to do my own thing. I'm not hurting anybody." In effect blaming the circumstances, and other people and their interpretations.

This is fascinating. How can you possibly deny a thing that actually physically happened? I flake out on people all the time and I KNOW this. I try to plan things well in advance just so that I will have ample time to cancel if needed.

Do you have any more examples? I really wish I knew more ENFPs in real life. I need to study more examples in order to get a better idea of my type.

What a trite remark. Nearly every NF believes this. It is hardly true, and actually irrelevant to what we're discussing. No one is reading into anything, this is blatant behavior.

NF awareness high five?

(It bothers me immensely that there is no high five icon.)

 

[Moiety]

I always always do. It's just not appreciated. Or even listened to. I repeat myself too often with a lot of ENFPs, so I tend to just keep them at a distance now.

Well you are certainly an anomaly. I find that most ENFPs I know are the first ones to hold it all in until an uncontrollable outburst happens and everything flows out.

I have 3 separate ENFP friends that always freak out if I say "hey, can you stop doing x,y and z?" and then later they will call and apologize for overreacting (and expect an apology from me for bringing it up), but the damage has already been done. It doesn't encourage me to bring anything up in their presence because it gets to be an emotional showdown.

I love them and they are wonderful people, but just this one aspect is troublesome for me, as I'm sure I annoy them as well.

Well I'm not sure I'm the right person to tackle all of this...and I'm not sure I like to address this kind of stuff using a "type-related" angle for too long...I mean, it's stuff like this that makes me doubt about MBTI. People behave differently. MBTI is about cognition not behavior. I'm not necessarily an anomaly. Everyone is an anomaly, in a sense.

A piece of advice when dealing with ENFPs though, if they are anything like me.... "Free spirits"... "Live and let live"...etc

"Can you stop doing x,y and z?". Er...no. Tell me WHY I should first, and then I might consider it


Don't boss an ENFP around. Don't tell him/her what to do. Make him/her feel guilty about doing it. That might be the only way to go about changing him/her. But, why would you really?

 

[Lauren Ashley]

I do think people idealize ENFPs a bit, though. We are very independent.

:rolli:

The is not about independence. ENFPs can be as independent as they wish, they just shouldn't give the impression that they will be there when needed, if in fact they will most likely not be. It's disingenuous.

I was talking about people interpreting our behavior a certain way. Like taking issue with something like Jenocyde talked about. Not the actual thing in that particular case, but what lies beneath for us - matters of principle. People misinterpret my reasons for saying this or doing that all the time.

Again, this is blatant behavior. Who said a person is reading into why you do something, instead of just taking issue with you doing it in the first place?

And I was admitting to what could be perceived as a fault (me thinking I'm better at reading others then they are).

Really? v

I will say I believe more in my ability to read others than other abilities to read me (dunno if that is true for all ENFPs). I guess that's why they call the ENFP the "psychologist" in some instances too...

That is not admitting to a fault. It's patting yourself on the back for being a genius people-reader. Spare me. I know truckloads of ENFPs irl and their people-reading skills could use help. They have a tendency of trusting the wrong people and distrusting the right ones.

 

[Lady_X]

I agree with this wholeheartedly but the response I get most often to what I believe is total honesty is either anger or tears. I am often accused of being mean and cold because (for example) if, say, someone is complaining about girlfriend troubles and I can see a direct connection between their behaviour and their problem, I will tell them how it is their fault and how to correct it rather than go the "That sucks, man." route. I have found this kind of response to be the most valuable to me because it gets me out of my Fi-Si a blooo bloo blooo cave and into Ne-Te problem solving mode. I try to give people the response I would find most helpful in a given situation but I always get yelled at for being unsympathetic and bitchy. As far as I could tell, trying to solve their problem at all was me being sympathetic.

i do that too tiny...if people ask for my advice they're going to get the truth as i see it even if it's not pretty.

 

[jenocyde]

I was talking about people interpreting our behavior a certain way. Like taking issue with something like Jenocyde talked about. Not the actual thing in that particular case, but what lies beneath for us - matters of principle. People misinterpret my reasons for saying this or doing that all the time.

The point is I am not interpreting or misinterpreting anything. The reasons mean nothing to me at that point, it's the result. If I tell a friend a million times that I have to get off the phone but they keep talking, and I am forced to hang up, I am punished for days for my rude behavior and how s/he would never do something so rude.

But meanwhile, the reason why I had to be so rude in the first place is never addressed. If I say that there was no other option for me but that, it results in denial that I ever indicated I needed to go in the first place. And things will never be better until I apologize for my behavior. Stuff like that.

But after an hour long argument, almost all ENFPs will concede if, and only if, they can understand why I needed to go so badly. Then I will get a half assed "oh, your dad was dying, I understand why now you were so testy with me. Ok, I'm sorry for not letting you go earlier, I just didn't understand why it was so important. had I known, I surely would have let you go".

Which is entirely beside the point. Why I have to go is none of your business, and I should not have to explain things to you in order to get off the phone. And my urgent reason is not the blame. I'm upset with you because you wouldn't let me get off the phone not because my dad was dying, or whatever. Meaning, I am legitimately upset with you and am not projecting my feelings from another situation.


EDIT: I just saw your "tell me why" comment.
my point exactly. it's none of your business. you don't need to understand, but you do need to accept.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

"Can you stop doing x,y and z?". Er...no. Tell me WHY I should first, and then I might consider it

I definitely tell ENFPs why their behavior is an issue.

Don't boss an ENFP around. Don't tell him/her what to do. Make him/her feel guilty about doing it. That might be the only way to go about changing him/her. But, why would you really?

Why should a person have to make another feel guilty? Why can't they just discuss it like two adults?

 

[ergophobe]

I have often been told I do the opposite; criticise people thoroughly without taking into account that it might hurt their feelings because I firmly believe that a criticism of your actions is not a criticism of your character. Some ENFPs are going to be feelier than others, I guess others like me have wandered into bitch territory and ain't coming back.

Me too! I relate. If anything, it doesn't feel real when there isn't constructive criticism shared. That seems to be a natural part of any activity.

 

[Moiety]

:rolli:

The is not about independence. ENFPs can be as independent as they wish, just don't give the impression that they will be there when needed, if in fact they will most likely not be. It's disingenuous.

I didn't excuse his behavior did I? I was just being as vague as I could because obviously I can't vouch for every ENFP out there. I was saying I'm all about independence and not tying myself to any one thing unless I really want to.

Again, this is blatant behavior. Who said a person is reading into why you do something, instead of just taking issue with you doing it in the first place?

That's just it. The person is taking issue with me doing it in the first place but I happen to know why I do it and have a good reason to do it. So why should I change? It's a matter of principle. If' it's not something blatantly inconsiderate on my part I don't see why you should criticize me for it and even why I should bother with dealing with the fact you are annoyed.

Really? v

Could you please clarify. I do think I'm better at reading people than most. I have a big ego, yes.

That is not admitting to a fault. It's patting yourself on the back for being a genius people-reader. Spare me. I know truckloads of ENFPs irl and their people-reading skills could use help. They have a tendency of trusting the wrong people and distrusting the right ones.

In the off-chance my people reading skills fail me...do I detect a hint of annoyance in your speech?

I'm not admitting to a fault. I'm admitting to believin I think I'm good at it, which could be perceived as a fault. I make no excuses for thinking I'm good at something.

And why are you talking about other ENFPs? This is not a healthy way to view things, that's what I've been telling you. Take my comments at face value instead of trying to compare them to other ENFP people you might now.

This kind of topic I never understood. Behavior and cognition are two different things, like I said before.