[ENFP] Hate an ENFP? Tell us why!

[sculpting]

I don't hate anyone. But I do find the ENFPs annoying, who play up the MBTI ENFP stereotype of their purported kind. Of the real life ENFPs that I know who aren't into MBTI, they're a pretty cool bunch.

^this has always driven me insane about this forum. I think we all at times can be somewhat flighty or goofy and occasionally it is fun to run amock and play, but I have seen many enfps comes here, begin to feel strangely out of place, as what they see represented is not the reality they live, then leave. Most of the enfps I know have technical backgrounds advanced degrees, but there is a strong pressure on the forum for enfps to stay in their place and fit the sterotypes. There is also a context dependent effect in play.

wrt to topic:
I find that the enfps who drive me nuts are the ones who share a different enneatype from myself. It leads to a very different set of core values, and I often find that thier approach is very annoying and offensive to me. Understanding this gap makes it easier to not be annoyed, but it still grates. So close but so far.

Things that annoy me about other enfps:

1. the difficulty isolating thier value stake in an idea from the idea. Thus they cant take even slight criticism of the idea without becoming defensive.

2. The willingness to use flirtation or emo prompting in a work situation. On your own time, who cares, but at work, this is really stupid. I have seen a couple of older enfp males rise to executive positions using this technique (the girls get written off as stupid flakes with this tactic and dont go far). The enfp males use it and it feels very sleezeball. I think it is an so/sx thing.

3. Using values to establish "feeling" groups. These are ways to exclude people who present you with data that conflicts with what you WANT to believe or challanges a value bound idea you hold. Thus they are judged as not sharing the correct "feeling" tone and the enfp begins to exclude them. It is very similar to how an Fe user might exclude another, except it is more passive in nature. It is a nasty protective mechanism and stupid, as they are shielding themselves from information that is needed to solve the problems.

4. The inability to be direct and straightforward. Instead the enfp will talk around issue or just avoid it to keep people happy. As an example I was managing a product which was not manufacturable, yet we kept taking orders for it-then were unable to deliver. I repeatedly explained this to my enfp supervisor-who was too much of a coward to directly convey this information to the COO. Additionally enfp managers can be too chickenshit to be direct in giving employee feedback.

5. externalizing stupid values on others-we all have our weird little values, but it bothers me to see them externalized onto others that are very different from us.

 

[Thinkist]

wrt to topic:
I find that the enfps who drive me nuts are the ones who share a different enneatype from myself. It leads to a very different set of core values, and I often find that thier approach is very annoying and offensive to me. Understanding this gap makes it easier to not be annoyed, but it still grates. So close but so far.

Things that annoy me about other enfps:

1. the difficulty isolating thier value stake in an idea from the idea. Thus they cant take even slight criticism of the idea without becoming defensive.

2. The willingness to use flirtation or emo prompting in a work situation. On your own time, who cares, but at work, this is really stupid. I have seen a couple of older enfp males rise to executive positions using this technique (the girls get written off as stupid flakes with this tactic and dont go far). The enfp males use it and it feels very sleezeball. I think it is an so/sx thing.

3. Using values to establish "feeling" groups. These are ways to exclude people who present you with data that conflicts with what you WANT to believe or challanges a value bound idea you hold. Thus they are judged as not sharing the correct "feeling" tone and the enfp begins to exclude them. It is very similar to how an Fe user might exclude another, except it is more passive in nature. It is a nasty protective mechanism and stupid, as they are shielding themselves from information that is needed to solve the problems.

4. The inability to be direct and straightforward. Instead the enfp will talk around issue or just avoid it to keep people happy. As an example I was managing a product which was not manufacturable, yet we kept taking orders for it-then were unable to deliver. I repeatedly explained this to my enfp supervisor-who was too much of a coward to directly convey this information to the COO. Additionally enfp managers can be too chickenshit to be direct in giving employee feedback.

5. externalizing stupid values on others-we all have our weird little values, but it bothers me to see them externalized onto others that are very different from us.

QFT. I'm not at all an ENFP wannabe, and balk at the very idea of it. I too, as a Type 9, find that I get along best with an ENFP if they're a Type 9. I also find they're not as helpful as NFJs, even ENFP 2s.

 

[Kitsune413]

Just got interested in type recently.

Looking at this thread I was very touched by Kalach.
Seems like he had a very good enfp friend. I tend to mostly socialize with intp's. Its nice to have someone around you that can challenge you intellectually.
It made me smile and laugh to see his words. The spiderweb thing. The only getting a glimpse of our real opinion. The 'one more question' and the bushwhacking.
They were all very insightful comments.

I didn't enjoy seeing other enfp's get defensive about his words, because they rang so true for me. But that tends to be a hardwired response.

and I agree with Xander's statement. I hate how we turn into ISTJ's when we're pushed. Take Ne away from us with a negative attitude or oppressive comments and we're not going to be talk about our idea's to you anymore.
So we fall back on that Te. Like a gun, with Si loading facts into the chamber and Fi putting J on the trigger.

I find that most of the time with INTP's I'm arguing my point because I believe I'm right. That doesn't change when I get upset but you hurt my feelings and its all logic and I've got all the ENFP insight in the world about your personality and I'm about to give it in a form you don't want it in.

As cliche as it sounds and as little as I want to present it in my first post. The artist 'Pink' has a song called 'Please don't leave me' that is obviously about an enfp having an 'inferior' function episode.

 

[Pand0ra]

Chaos, utter chaos. My other half is an ENFP, and when he is done in the kitchen...... well he does what I figure must be a 'crumb dance'. But he gets away with it because he is just so damn lovable.

In all seriousness, I have dated a few ENFPs and I hate the subtle but constant flirting with other people. If you've ever been out with your significant other and they've chatted someone else up right in front of you... shamelessly... man is that a slap in the face! especially if they later deny it and insist they were just being friendly. Only to admit several months later (once the dust has settled) that in fact, you were right, and they are sorry. Honestly ENFPs, do you think I was born yesterday?

 

[Kierva]

ENFPs annoy and stress me out with their Ne. I resent it when they try to get under my skin with their Fi.

 

[Thinkist]

and I agree with Xander's statement. I hate how we turn into ISTJ's when we're pushed. Take Ne away from us with a negative attitude or oppressive comments and we're not going to be talk about our idea's to you anymore.
So we fall back on that Te. Like a gun, with Si loading facts into the chamber and Fi putting J on the trigger.

Notably, ISTPs have Conflict Relations (Socionics equivalent: ENFp/ISTj, IEE/LSI) with ENFPs, and so of course we're gonna push you out of Ne. Ne kills off a big part of the ego of ISTPs (Se, to be specific), so we combat it with our Ni. Eventually, we notice ENFPs become those nasty ISTJs, and by that time, assertive Fe may speak up (something ENFPs might not like), combined with the action-oriented Se. Often times when I'm annoyed with my ENFP sis for one reason or another I'll cut right to the action (or be very sorely tempted to) instead of meddling around with words (I'm also a little impatient, partially from past experience).

Oh, and before I forget, Fi can be a total pain to ISTPs sometimes.

 

[Kitsune413]

We seem to be a very specific trigger to alot of INTP's. I also know some isfj's that are very dear to me. But I'm still obviously a trigger to them as well.

This thread has been about expressing peoples experiences and they most certainly have a right to do so. But this thread is also a trap. ENFP's don't want people to hate them. Or things about them. So this thread exists, I believe, primarily so they can try to use that intuition on it. So its very positive to be negative here.

But I did want to point out for purposes of understanding that Enfp's are primarily people oriented with an extraverted intuition.

There were a few emotion fueled posts about Enfp's stabbing people in the back and turning people against them. I remember growing up I disdained drama. But I did talk about people. I still do. I am so curious about them. Want to understand them. But a danger of that is that you end up with alot of 'This person does this' which you say to another person. Using that Ne.

I think the real danger is if the person they say it to doesn't understand its for the merit of understanding. Or more unfortunately, takes it and runs with it. You will see alot of drama from them.

But I'd also say that if you are experiencing alot of drama from an ENFP, you may want to take a look at what you are doing. If they're saying something about you to understand you and it resonates with others. Then you are probably doing something that isn't conducive to building healthy relationships.

One of the terrible truths of Ne though, I think, is that often times if something is said it cannot be unsaid. Once it is known it cannot be unknown. I remember there were times when I was younger when I would say, "This person does this alot" and the person I said it too would never stop looking at that person without that context anymore.

But I don't mean to put that forward as a defense of our behavior. Type exists, I hope, to understand people. A forum about type, I hope, is a forum about that.

 

[CzeCze]

Chaos, utter chaos. My other half is an ENFP, and when he is done in the kitchen...... well he does what I figure must be a 'crumb dance'. But he gets away with it because he is just so damn lovable.

Hahaha!!

I am such a messy eater and cook. I can consciously minimize the mess and look lady like but if left to my own devices it can be like cookie monster inhaling a box of Oreos.

In all seriousness, I have dated a few ENFPs and I hate the subtle but constant flirting with other people. If you've ever been out with your significant other and they've chatted someone else up right in front of you... shamelessly... man is that a slap in the face! especially if they later deny it and insist they were just being friendly. Only to admit several months later (once the dust has settled) that in fact, you were right, and they are sorry. Honestly ENFPs, do you think I was born yesterday?

[MENTION=6166]Orobas[/MENTION] and above ^^ dang MEN do this too? I knew 1 charming ENFP guy who seemed like he was always flirting with girls but otherwise I thought the "constant flirting" was reserved to a few NFP females. personally, I can't stand this behavior either and refuse to date another person who does this.

however, I think for some NFP females and also ENXP in general, it could SEEM like flirting OR it could be seen as "being charming and sociable". Sometimes I also watch and wonder what their motivation is and if they are aware it can seem like flirting and how other people are interpreting it.

But yes, anyone who plays dumb or really doesnt get boundaries is a red flag.

I know there are some other ENFP females who also said they are "old fashioned" like myself. I think enneatype might play a role. Im SO primary and SX secondary but I'm very aware socially of boundaries and not getting overly intimate or chummy with strangers.

I think its partly Ne dominance and being "enthusiastic" that can get read as flirting, too.

bTw Pandora, I totally agree. if someone flirts in front of you and then lies about it, kick me to the curb!!

 

[Ukon]

My brother. Boy, is he a piece of work. Not to denounce him in any way, but he certainly has his flaws. He does have a lot to say, about everything, which is both working positively and negatively for him. When we get into our debates and such (though we're usually on the same side), he talks extremely fast and flails his arms around.

For example, just yesterday him and I were sitting in the living room, playing video games, and we got into a discussion about good, quality music and music that makes us want to cry. While I sat there talking quietly and slowly, he'd unintentionally interrupt me constantly to get his own thoughts in with his somewhat noisier voice. I eventually asked him to try not to do it, and he apologized. Not even two sentences later, and he cut me short once more. I gave up. He does that a lot, though I know it's not on purpose.

And as for more amusing things that slightly annoy me but mostly fascinate me; he's a pyromaniac. This typically doesn't annoy me, and I'll usually even watch him play with fire (partially out of concern...), but it really bugged me a few years ago when he thought it'd be okay to set 7 or so matches aflame at once indoors. It didn't end well, and he burnt his hand as well as set the rug on fire. My rug, mind you.

The last thing that annoys me applies to both him and my sister. They both cannot handle their money well. My sister once earned 10 dollars for raking the leafs off the sidewalk for an elderly man. Mama and papa encouraged her to spend it wisely, but instead she spent it all at once. The item she spent it all on was a very overpriced pumpkin which she thought looked like butt cheeks. Our parents laughed about it, but then we realized how that wasn't a wise decision. So now, she's learning how to manage money.
As for my brother's money issues, he tends to impulse shop. He'll go to a market with the right mindset, but come home with only things he didn't need. One time he went to the store to purchase a few shirts, and came back with feminine hygiene products. So he could light them on fire. Yeah...

I'm sorry, I'm putting them both in a bad light. They really are good people! I just sometimes find their habits a little annoying... Still, they are both very sweet and funny and intelligent.

 

[Trunks]

I didn't really hate them, they just bugs me. Just few while ago, my ENFP friend visited me. Hard to interrupt while they are non stop talking.

 

[herbpixie]

Yeah, I know the thread is old, but I have more trouble with ENFPs than any other type. They're like sirens to me. I'm drawn in by the infectious giggling and having of the fun, but I am invariably caught up in a long talk about feelings. Usually what I have unintentionally done or said to hurt their feelings. Sometimes this is my own bluntness or messed up sense of humor. I fully admit that sometimes what I say comes across way more harshly than it is meant. As a clueless INTP, I'm often completely oblivious about what might offend someone. Many times, however, this is projection by the ENFP, and what I actually said has no logical connection to how they feel about what I said. Time and time again, I've gotten really close to an ENFP only to quietly withdraw when the emote fest becomes too much for me.

For example, I have an ENFP friend who is married to a police officer. Her husband teaches a group of teenage kids who want to eventually become cops. The discussion went off topic and into clubs. I said, "I was in the debate club. No one in the club became a cop." She hears, "I think that debate club kids are really smart, and kids who want to become cops aren't intelligent enough to be a debater." I was quite taken aback, especially considering that her husband and I are friends. This led to a very long discussion about her feelings, which she prompty dropped when she became distracted.

I've found this sort of misinterpretation/projection to be common with the ENFPs I have known. I have a whole lot of fun with them, and I don't mean to be hypercritical. Honestly, ENFPs make me laugh more than any other type. I just have to get away from them sometimes for my own sanity because their emotions can be rather overwhelming.

 

[Starry]

"I was in the debate club. No one in the club became a cop."

I found what you wrote really interesting...and I feel compelled to respond...but I guess I got hung-up on the above and wanted to first ask...why did you say that? What was the reason you included that last little bit? You see...ENFPs will automatically...because of how our brains are wired...want to find a reason for everything however 'small or subtle'...and I'm just wondering what your reasoning was. Why did you feel it necessary to include...'No one in the club became a cop.'...?

 

[Qlip]

I found what you wrote really interesting...and I feel compelled to respond...but I guess I got hung-up on the above and wanted to first ask...why did you say that? What was the reason you included that last little bit? You see...ENFPs will automatically...because of how our brains are wired...want to find a reason for everything however 'small or subtle'...and I'm just wondering what your reasoning was. Why did you feel it necessary to include...'No one in the club became a cop.'...?

Agreed. Without context, the cop becomes an obvious comparison to her husband. At the very least offensive, this seems the same as saying "I don't have anything to do with people like your husband."

 

[herbpixie]

I found what you wrote really interesting...and I feel compelled to respond...but I guess I got hung-up on the above and wanted to first ask...why did you say that? What was the reason you included that last little bit? You see...ENFPs will automatically...because of how our brains are wired...want to find a reason for everything however 'small or subtle'...and I'm just wondering what your reasoning was. Why did you feel it necessary to include...'No one in the club became a cop.'...?

Because another person in the conversation spoke about a future cop in a club he was in. The conversation drifted to clubs in general. My only reason for saying that was to clarify that we were no longer on the subject of cops; we had moved on to clubs.

 

[herbpixie]

Agreed. Without context, the cop becomes an obvious comparison to her husband. At the very least offensive, this seems the same as saying "I don't have anything to do with people like your husband."

The weird thing is that her husband used to be my roommate. We're close friends, so, given the context, the reaction seemed very bizarre to me. Sorry--I wasn't entirely clear about how the conversation progressed. There was a reason for including that, just not the reason that was interpreted.

The other person in the conversation actually did say something overtly negative about police officers, and the ENFP in question didn't bat an eyelash at him. It was my statement to which she took offense. When I confronted her with this, she replied that my opinion was more important to her.

 

[Hate]

I found what you wrote really interesting...and I feel compelled to respond...but I guess I got hung-up on the above and wanted to first ask...why did you say that? What was the reason you included that last little bit? You see...ENFPs will automatically...because of how our brains are wired...want to find a reason for everything however 'small or subtle'...and I'm just wondering what your reasoning was. Why did you feel it necessary to include...'No one in the club became a cop.'...?

 

[Elfboy]

some ENFPs can be angry, dogmatic, and hopelessly stubborn and hateful.

 

[The Great One]

I hate [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION] because he is actually a 3 w 4 in disguise who puts up a 7 front. lol jk

 

[Elfboy]

I hate [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION] because he is actually a 3 w 4 in disguise who puts up a 7 front. lol jk

lol most people who say that aren't kidding (both about the 3w4 and the hate LOL)

 

[The Great One]

lol most people who say that aren't kidding (both about the 3w4 and the hate LOL)

lol, I'm not kidding about the 3 w 4. You are just too much of a snoody bastard; it's so 3 w 4. You are not a core 7.