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[ENFP] Hate an ENFP? Tell us why!

substitute

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Perhaps you just happen to know a lot of immature ENFP types? Perhaps it's the skittish nature of Fi when presented with "a threat". Perhaps it's a common issue with ENTP vs ENFP relations?

Nah, I think it's just that you're a particularly well rounded ENFP. Like jen said, I think there are a few on this forum who have become more well rounded, maybe because they get the growth opportunities here that they might not get elsewhere.

What is it the Enneagram says about those "health levels" of the different types? It's a scale, can't remember what to what, but say it's 1 to 5, with 5 being the most mature and wise and awesome form of that type and 1 being the most immature, brattish and screwed up form - they reckon most people are at about level 2 or 3 these days and it's only the much much older ones or the ones who've used psychology/typology for self-improvement who've got anywhere near 4 or 5.

Sorry, like I said my Si sucks!
 

CzeCze

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The ENTP's Fe is a salve for interpersonal friction, while the ENFP's Fi seems rigid and unyielding.

I can agree with the salt of truth in this.

Fe makes it easier for ENTPs to get along with people regardless of how they actually 'feel' about the person or situation. It's a light kinda of "whateva, let's just have a round and move past this" kind of energy.

The irony is, ENFPs in general probably "care" a lot more about the actual issues at hand causing the friction. Fi doms can't act light and cheery and fun when a situation is really hitting our values - to do so would be fake.

Actually, this is a sore point for me. I don't understand why ENFPs get slammed for "trying to make everything better" and "glossing over friction" and then when ENTPs do it they score brownie points for being 'team players' and 'suprisingly gracious'.

I think it's because there are different expectations and even stereotypes associated with being an NT or an NF.

Beyond cognitive functions, the ability to be cheerful and even charismatic and make people 'forget their troubles' and 'move past things' is in itself a neutral thing.

There are times when you shouldn't move past things, when people shouldn't necessarily feel hunky-dory about things - that's what Fi is about. I guess it's funny that I hear criticism that ENFPs want to always gloss over conflict and then I hear the criticism that ENFPs want to say within conflict.

So yeah, sometimes Fi probably does feel unyielding. I know people have expected me to be a lot "nicer" and "more loving" in certain situations and because I totally did not approve of what was going on, I was anything but.

There is a time for levity and for leaving a situation for later, but it irks me to no end when people try to blow off interpersonal conflict because they can't be bothered or don't care personally about the matter at hand. It's really easy to make things light and get people to "move on" when you yourself have no emotional or other investment in what's going on.
 

jenocyde

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There are times when you shouldn't move past things, when people shouldn't necessarily feel hunky-dory about things - that's what Fi is about.

I agree with much of your post, but to be fair, I must mention that not everything is a problem. I feel like I have to carefully watch every single word I say and how I say it, so there are no problems perceived. And me being a prickish ENTP, there are bound to be hurt feelings. I try though. I just wish my irl ENFP friends also tried a bit harder to just hear what I say at face value without searching for hidden meanings. Believe me, I say exactly what's on my mind, nothing is hidden.
 

jenocyde

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ENTPs come off as less dramatic and attached than they really are. Your last sentence rings true - they really do seem to be more frustrated and upset than they let on.

Yes! I get frustrated and upset, I just don't always want to indulge in that feeling so I let it go. It's not productive.
 

BlahBlahNounBlah

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I agree with much of your post, but to be fair, I must mention that not everything is a problem. I feel like I have to carefully watch every single word I say and how I say it, so there are no problems perceived. And me being a prickish ENTP, there are bound to be hurt feelings. I try though. I just wish my irl ENFP friends also tried a bit harder to just hear what I say at face value without searching for hidden meanings. Believe me, I say exactly what's on my mind, nothing is hidden.


The reading between the lines wouldn't bother me if it was consistent.
 

Lauren Ashley

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In my experience (small N =3 - fair disclosure seemed in order since I raised this point), ENTPs come off as less dramatic and attached than they really are. Your last sentence rings true - they really do seem to be more frustrated and upset than they let on.

The ENTPs I know sure seem dramatic when they are debating. This ENTP I know starts waving his arms in the air and gets this crazy look in his eyes whenever he debates philosophy.
 

ergophobe

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The irony is, ENFPs in general probably "care" a lot more about the actual issues at hand causing the friction. Fi doms can't act light and cheery and fun when a situation is really hitting our values - to do so would be fake.

Actually, this is a sore point for me. I don't understand why ENFPs get slammed for "trying to make everything better" and "glossing over friction" and then when ENTPs do it they score brownie points for being 'team players' and 'suprisingly gracious'.

I think the problem may arise for both types for not knowing there is friction until it is brought up. Once it is brought to ENFPs' attention, I agree, ENFPs do care deeply about the issues/values and thier own values include egalitarianism and respect for other people so it makes sense that they would acknowledge and remedy their own failings in this respect.


So yeah, sometimes Fi probably does feel unyielding. I know people have expected me to be a lot "nicer" and "more loving" in certain situations and because I totally did not approve of what was going on, I was anything but.

Stop living my life, NOW! Please?
 

Lauren Ashley

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Actually, this is a sore point for me. I don't understand why ENFPs get slammed for "trying to make everything better" and "glossing over friction" and then when ENTPs do it they score brownie points for being 'team players' and 'suprisingly gracious'.
Because, in the examples I've mentioned and many others, the ENFPs are simply sweeping the issue under the rug without addressing it. The ENTP's Ti breaks down the issue and their Fe helps them to do it in a way that others can appreciate.

I think it's because there are different expectations and even stereotypes associated with being an NT or an NF.
True on here. But I've witnessed this dynamic with ENxPs offline in situations where no one has any idea what MBTI is.

That's different! :happy:

Dramatic is dramatic! ;)
 

ergophobe

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The ENTPs I know sure seem dramatic when they are debating. This ENTP I know starts waving his arms in the air and gets this crazy look in his eyes whenever he debates philosophy.

That's just different kind of dramatic :smile:

Uh-oh - flailing arms alert! Move delicate objects out of the way.
 

substitute

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The irony is, ENFPs in general probably "care" a lot more about the actual issues at hand causing the friction. Fi doms can't act light and cheery and fun when a situation is really hitting our values - to do so would be fake.

Actually, this is a sore point for me. I don't understand why ENFPs get slammed for "trying to make everything better" and "glossing over friction" and then when ENTPs do it they score brownie points for being 'team players' and 'suprisingly gracious'.

I think you'd be surprised how much an ENTP can care about something whilst still being willing to let it go for now. Perhaps it's the pragmatism of the NT that tells me it's absolutely pointless trying to discuss it and assesses that it will achieve nothing, and so I'm able to override the emotional feeling, the frustration or whatever, for the sake of logical expediency. I think that perhaps the ENFP's idealism is what's the real block to them being able to do this, rather than to say that the reason the ENTP can is that they just don't really care.

There are times when you shouldn't move past things, when people shouldn't necessarily feel hunky-dory about things - that's what Fi is about. I guess it's funny that I hear criticism that ENFPs want to always gloss over conflict and then I hear the criticism that ENFPs want to say within conflict.

I'm not sure if there's a typo in there somewhere, cos that end part doesn't seem to really scan...? Do you mean "...that ENTPs want to stay within conflict"?

My experience with my brother is that it's quite often because I really do care about something and it is important to me, I'm the one insisting that this isn't something that should be glossed over or moved past without further examination, but the minute he hears the emphasis in my voice he's interpreting it as aggression and just switching off, that's when the whole frustration levels in me hit the roof, because he stops listening at all to anything I'm saying, instead focusing on the strength of feeling/frustration that's coming out in my tone of voice and trying to get me to drop it because it feels like conflict to him. I see it as rather ironic that he's the one causing it to seem like conflict, because all I wanted was a calm discussion and he's said that he likes to see that someone really cares about something - and yet here we are, there's emphasis in my voice that's because I care, and that's his signal to stop listening and try to shut me up! And it's him refusing to listen that gets me actually angry and telling him to ffs listen, cos all I want to do is say what I've got to say and for him to listen and understand. And it's doubly ironic because when I don't want to open up he's insisting that I should, and here I am, opening up, really caring, about something really important to me, and he's trying to get me to shut up and drop it because it all feels a bit too much like conflict to him! :doh: :steam:

When it comes to a group situation, where I can sense through Ne-Fe that although this or that issue is important and needs to be discussed, insisting on doing it NOW will not achieve the affect that my dear little idealist wants it to achieve and will, in fact, cause a lot of resentment and nobody will really take on the issues at hand. That's why I'd advocate moving on, and not because I simply don't give a shit.

I think that's what seems to me the difference with the ENxP's - I can see the same shit you do and I can have feelings about it too, but somehow I'm able to override my own feelings about it for the sake of expediency, efficacy and group dynamics, whereas you're oblivious to those things and just stuck in the "but this is how I FEEL" situation, so you end up futilely ranting to an unsympathetic and unlistening audience at an inappropriate time, achieving nothing.

I don't mean personally you, just sorta generally you, as in 'one' lol :)
 

LadyJaye

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Because, in the examples I've mentioned and many others, the ENFPs are simply sweeping the issue under the rug without addressing it. The ENTP's Ti breaks down the issue and their Fe helps them to do it in a way that others can appreciate.

I don't know if it's a typical flaw with most NF's, but this ENFP won't sweep a single thing under a rug and leave it. It makes me crazy. I'd rather deal with a problem NOW.

But that may not be most ENFP's ?
 

Lauren Ashley

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I don't know if it's a typical flaw with most NF's, but this ENFP won't sweep a single thing under a rug and leave it. It makes me crazy. I'd rather deal with a problem NOW.

But that may not be most ENFP's ?

Oh, now you are awesome. None of what I have mentioned applies to you, as far as I can tell :)

Now will you marry me or not, dammit?!
 

ergophobe

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I don't know if it's a typical flaw with most NF's, but this ENFP won't sweep a single thing under a rug and leave it. It makes me crazy. I'd rather deal with a problem NOW.

Me 2 (or 66, as the case may be).
 

Tiny Army

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I agree with Jaye. It's bizarre but a lot of the criticisms against ENFPs in this thread are experiences I have had personally with INFPs. I think this might be due to varying levels of Fi use. I know I am more comfortable using Te in extroverted scenarios than Fi.
 

LadyJaye

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Oh, now you are awesome. None of what I have mentioned applies to you, as far as I can tell :)

Now will you marry me or not, dammit?!

As an ENFP who believes in dealing with situations immediately, I say LET'S GET HITCHED! :D
 

Lady_X

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fi is not just about being emotional though. it's about being individualistic too. believing in personal rights so it may make us stand firm and protect that right against those who would choose to take it from us.
 

BlahBlahNounBlah

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I think you'd be surprised how much an ENTP can care about something whilst still being willing to let it go for now. Perhaps it's the pragmatism of the NT that tells me it's absolutely pointless trying to discuss it and assesses that it will achieve nothing, and so I'm able to override the emotional feeling, the frustration or whatever, for the sake of logical expediency. I think that perhaps the ENFP's idealism is what's the real block to them being able to do this, rather than to say that the reason the ENTP can is that they just don't really care.



I'm not sure if there's a typo in there somewhere, cos that end part doesn't seem to really scan...? Do you mean "...that ENTPs want to stay within conflict"?

My experience with my brother is that it's quite often because I really do care about something and it is important to me, I'm the one insisting that this isn't something that should be glossed over or moved past without further examination, but the minute he hears the emphasis in my voice he's interpreting it as aggression and just switching off, that's when the whole frustration levels in me hit the roof, because he stops listening at all to anything I'm saying, instead focusing on the strength of feeling/frustration that's coming out in my tone of voice and trying to get me to drop it because it feels like conflict to him. I see it as rather ironic that he's the one causing it to seem like conflict, because all I wanted was a calm discussion and he's said that he likes to see that someone really cares about something - and yet here we are, there's emphasis in my voice that's because I care, and that's his signal to stop listening and try to shut me up! And it's him refusing to listen that gets me actually angry and telling him to ffs listen, cos all I want to do is say what I've got to say and for him to listen and understand. And it's doubly ironic because when I don't want to open up he's insisting that I should, and here I am, opening up, really caring, about something really important to me, and he's trying to get me to shut up and drop it because it all feels a bit too much like conflict to him! :doh: :steam:

When it comes to a group situation, where I can sense through Ne-Fe that although this or that issue is important and needs to be discussed, insisting on doing it NOW will not achieve the affect that my dear little idealist wants it to achieve and will, in fact, cause a lot of resentment and nobody will really take on the issues at hand. That's why I'd advocate moving on, and not because I simply don't give a shit.

I think that's what seems to me the difference with the ENxP's - I can see the same shit you do and I can have feelings about it too, but somehow I'm able to override my own feelings about it for the sake of expediency, efficacy and group dynamics, whereas you're oblivious to those things and just stuck in the "but this is how I FEEL" situation, so you end up futilely ranting to an unsympathetic and unlistening audience at an inappropriate time, achieving nothing.

I don't mean personally you, just sorta generally you, as in 'one' lol :)

Your tone is just asking for trouble, so I have to be careful about which part I quote. :newwink:



I can see the same shit you do and I can have feelings about it too, but somehow I'm able to override my own feelings about it for the sake of expediency, efficacy and group dynamics

^ This. This. This.
 
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