[ENFP] Hate an ENFP? Tell us why!

[Xellotath]

Discussion for the sake of discussion? Conceiving of it's easy. Taking part? Dudes, gimmie a break, I'm carrying around a monster Ni here!

Besides, the deal with the million questions and the delay on taking a position isn't just P being P. It's trust. It takes you guys a while to decide if someone can be trusted to know all of the uncertainties you have on a given question (or even what the real question is), and meanwhile you can entertain them with some colourful, curious fragment.

And how I do with the fragment is a test too. So, yay for Ne and tactical Te.

Maybe you're right.
Maybe at the root of it all we don't trust others and have thousands of different happy masks and intellectual fragments to endlessly entertain others with, while secretely evaluating their performance and reactions to them.
Good thing in most cases its all guided by our ultra-idealistic [and sometimes childish] Fi's, huh?
Sure talking to us is to step in a minefield. But its a very pleasant one, wouldn't you agree? As a general rule, I feel compelled to make others feel at ease when they get caught in my web. I'll change the colors to match their preferences and put on some nice music in the background..

I must have read somewhere that maybe the architecture of an ENFP revolves around protecting an oversensitive Fi. [Careful though, I just threw at you another one of those fragments you seem to dislike..]

 

[scattershot]

Besides, the deal with the million questions and the delay on taking a position isn't just P being P.

For me, sometimes it really is just uncertainty, especially with political issues. Ne makes me see that both sides have a valid argument, so I often have a hard time judging which one is better.

But like Sy said, if it's something I feel strongly about, I'm pretty damn confident in defending my opinion. Maybe I'm just a different kind of ENFP, but I don't really have issues with trusting someone with my opinion. I can have an intense debate with a total stranger if it's something I actually do feel strongly about.

 

[Lady_X]

For me, sometimes it really is just uncertainty, especially with political issues. Ne makes me see that both sides have a valid argument, so I often have a hard time judging which one is better.

But like Sy said, if it's something I feel strongly about, I'm pretty damn confident in defending my opinion. Maybe I'm just a different kind of ENFP, but I don't really have issues with trusting someone with my opinion. I can have an intense debate with a total stranger if it's something I actually do feel strongly about.

right...i guess that's true most of the time for me...except not really a debate because if i'm that confident in something someone elses opinion really won't matter to me...but i'll defend it if necessary...but in other cases if i'm unsure i will just ask a million questions...and then maybe i will come to have an opinion on it after i've gathered enough information.

 

[Kalach]

It's just an intuition. A sense of decisions being made while I've been directed to look elsewhere.

That spiderweb approach is difficult to deal with. I'm aware (somehow) of it being legitimate. Also that it seems to trip me up. I'm good at what I do except when I have half of what I need to know.

But then, who says I need to know. The stories and ideas and questions aren't mine. Why should I know everything that goes with them?

I tend to volunteer understandings. I tend to blurt stuff out. In recent times I'm aware of exactly once deliberately withholding information. I'm aware of it because I announced that I would be doing it.

Conceivably though there's all sorts of styles of talking I do that look defensive to others. Dunno. If there's some weird thing I think the duals are doing, there has to be something correspondingly irritating on my side of the fence.




Aw lookit, the ENFPs made me emo.

 

[scattershot]

Have you tried asking the ENFP why they're asking so many questions? If somebody asked me "why do you want to know?" I'd tell them if I had a particular agenda in mind or if I was just gathering info.

Something else I just thought of...sometimes when I do that, it's because my Ne has a vague idea of what I'm getting at, but I need more details to put it all into something concrete. It's like I see the web of connections between things, but don't have enough of the actual dots to make sense of it yet. Ne gives me too many possibilites - It could be this...or it could be that other thing, so I better ask more questions to narrow down the options.

And I can't speak for all the ENFPs, but I personally INTJs. I can't think of anything my INTJ friend does that irritates me.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I don't hate ENFPs but I am not a big fan of them .



In short problems mostly come down to TJ vs FP problems and interaction styles.

The thing is that typical ENFP is too positive and idealistic for me and I am usually too cold and calculated for them.

 

[Kalach]

Ah well, I only bitch because they're so damned attractive.

 

[Tiny Army]

And I can't speak for all the ENFPs, but I personally INTJs. I can't think of anything my INTJ friend does that irritates me.

My INTJ roomate is pretty much the best ever. He has understood now that I ask too many questions mostly because I just want to know. And he likes giving me answers and helping me plan things!

 

[Immaculate Cloud]

No, I don't hate the enfps... My IRL enfp friend has suddenly woken up and realized that things in her physical environment were not okay and so, it has resulted in her projecting a lot of her existential angst (what career move now? where to live now? who in my life now?) on me... Some of the blame was justified but not all. It has become a pattern that I recognize now. Feeling rotten and trapped in an unsatisfying career or life = feeling crappy = acting it out against friends who care too much and get too close. As a result, I have been running for cover... I don't know if you could call this an enfp in the shadows. But hell hath no fury than an enfp in the shadow methinks. Nothing is good, everything is criticised and everything and I mean everything is wrong and messed up. Nothing satisfies. Plus a lot of 'keep away' and then shortly afterwards, 'please pay attention to me'. Many mixed and contradictory signals...Plus when she is trying to get to grips with what is ailing her, she will also try to fix ME at the same time! Na thanks!

Despite thinking that I understand the underlying dynamic, I don't voice it out and therefore don't get any feedback as to whether I have hit home. A few years back, I had put my finger on some uncomfy truth and that had resulted in a verbal lashing out. This same uncomfy truth has dawned on her for some time now but I refrain from saying, 'see I told you so a long time back'... Some truths are not good to tell and one has to let the scales fall off their eyes in due time...

My RL enfp seems to me like a little girl with a big heartache and I am this teddy bear that is talked to, punched, cried over and often times, put on the shelf, to be hugged again and put back on the shelf again...

 

[garbage]

Sorry, dudes, if there's one ENFP trait I can't grasp, it's undying love for INTJs. If it's required that I go out and get one, I should probably just either stab myself in the head or change my type now.

 

[Mort Belfry]

If it's required that I go out and get one, I should probably just either stab myself in the head or change my type now.

Who gets to choose which option you take?

 

[garbage]

Me. I do. I'm not walking into any traps.

 

[ColonelGadaafi]

Me. I do. I'm not walking into any traps.

You don't have to love them, i don't normally like ISTJ's, because they are far too rigid, yet they are described as the ideal partner.

It is a certain streak of intrigue more then anything, it is just Ie appeasing it's curious nature. Most ENFP's love INTJ's because they provide the Ie with a hard impenetratble puzzle, and because of the mutual N connection, rather then a certain affinity.

One principle ground for ENFP's is the flow of information and it's importance in relationship sustenace, and apparently INTJ's provides the biggest amount of the intreseting sort.

Their relationships are usually similar to the extroverted high school boy who is puzzled by the secretive introverted cryptic girl.

 

[Xellotath]

No, I don't hate the enfps... My IRL enfp friend has suddenly woken up and realized that things in her physical environment were not okay and so, it has resulted in her projecting a lot of her existential angst (what career move now? where to live now? who in my life now?) on me... Some of the blame was justified but not all. It has become a pattern that I recognize now. Feeling rotten and trapped in an unsatisfying career or life = feeling crappy = acting it out against friends who care too much and get too close. As a result, I have been running for cover... I don't know if you could call this an enfp in the shadows. But hell hath no fury than an enfp in the shadow methinks. Nothing is good, everything is criticised and everything and I mean everything is wrong and messed up. Nothing satisfies. Plus a lot of 'keep away' and then shortly afterwards, 'please pay attention to me'. Many mixed and contradictory signals...Plus when she is trying to get to grips with what is ailing her, she will also try to fix ME at the same time! Na thanks!

Despite thinking that I understand the underlying dynamic, I don't voice it out and therefore don't get any feedback as to whether I have hit home. A few years back, I had put my finger on some uncomfy truth and that had resulted in a verbal lashing out. This same uncomfy truth has dawned on her for some time now but I refrain from saying, 'see I told you so a long time back'... Some truths are not good to tell and one has to let the scales fall off their eyes in due time...

My RL enfp seems to me like a little girl with a big heartache and I am this teddy bear that is talked to, punched, cried over and often times, put on the shelf, to be hugged again and put back on the shelf again...

Love the imagery of your last paragraph.
That's very close to what I did to my friends when I had my own existential crisis [which I'm not out of entirely], my thoughts kept racing extremely fast and were highly contradictory not unlike a mini-bipolar episode. The worst thing is that I was conscious of everything I did, I was aware that I was being highly inauthentic and that freaked out a lot of my Fe-dominant friends. It's painful. I hate inauthenticity yet I was so repulsed of all my previous personas that I couldn't help but being inauthentic. I didn't want to be me. I stopped eating for about three days then somehow recovered. Wish I could have something more substantial for you, a magical ENFP button to make everything better, but I think you're doing the right thing by running for cover.

Crisis aside, I think your friend is fortunate to have someone who points out uncomfortable truths, it's ultimately better for our development. I too used to get mad at my friend for doing that to me when I was younger. Inside I would say "Darn it, why is he so mean to me? I was so nice!" - when niceness isnt the point to begin with.

Anyway, please be patient with your ENFP,
..You adorable teddy bear.

 

[scattershot]

But hell hath no fury than an enfp in the shadow methinks. Nothing is good, everything is criticised and everything and I mean everything is wrong and messed up. Nothing satisfies. Plus a lot of 'keep away' and then shortly afterwards, 'please pay attention to me'. Many mixed and contradictory signals.

Eek...that looks very familiar.

When I'm stuck in a bad situation and Ne can't find any possible way out, that can definitely lead to a Fi explosion that hits everyone in my general vicinity, whether I want it to or not. Running for cover is probably the best strategy. Treat it like a grenade going off - go hide from the shrapnel 'til the explosion's over with.

The "keep away" signals might be the ENFP's way of trying to protect you from the explosive nature of her Fi. Since I can't stop it from happening, I try to at least do it away from people I care about. But then there's the problem of us needing someone else to bounce our thoughts off of so we can figure out a solution. Damn...we really are a pain in the ass sometimes.

One principle ground for ENFP's is the flow of information and it's importance in relationship sustenace, and apparently INTJ's provides the biggest amount of the intreseting sort.

Yep - That's the thing I like most about INTJs. I never know what kind of random subjects we'll talk about and it's always something interesting.

I also don't think the ENFP-INTJ attraction works for everyone. It probably works best when the 2 people are pretty balanced on the F/T scale. I'm kind of a cynical asshole for an ENFP and the INTJ I know isn't one of those stereotypical "robot" INTJs. I love the INTJ dry humor, but I could see where it might disturb an ENFP that's higher on the F scale.

 

[Laurie]

Wow, you guys really hit it on the head.

 

[Immaculate Cloud]

Love the imagery of your last paragraph.
[snip]
not unlike a mini-bipolar episode.
[snip]
I couldn't help but being inauthentic.
[snip]
Crisis aside, I think your friend is fortunate to have someone who points out uncomfortable truths, it's ultimately better for our development.[snip]

Anyway, please be patient with your ENFP,
..You adorable teddy bear.

1. Thank you.

2. Interesting because my IRL enfp mentions being overwhelmed by her thoughts. In between such episodes there will be what I secretly call 'Painkillers Mode' for her - rushing off doing a thousand things, indulging in endless partying and socializing as if more to deaden the pain of living than to face it or whatever issues squarely... I know the extroverts need this socializing to get their energy. But I have seen the eyes and think I read correctly. And that gets me worried, this continual postponing of what needs to be confronted.

3. Interesting too - is that not a form of distancing?

4. Ultimately better for your development. Yea, but I have had to learn to be very diplomatic and creative in finding ways to say those truths. My ENFP is so sensitive at times...We INFJ's are highly self-aware and here comes an ENFP who suddenly discovers a whole new world called inner self and goodness me, does she try to fix ME in the process of discovering herself! It's not like I don't know where I am in my own development! I have made that abundantly clear yet I get some patronising and preachy emails...

I know other types who quickly got over being charmed by her, call her hypocritical, neurotic, superficial and have told her in no uncertain terms that they had better things to do. Then there are those who choose to stay around but I can see them carefully emotionally distancing themselves... Maybe it is a 'social skill' to know how to do that while maintaining a semblance of intimacy. Mouthing the right words, blowing the right kisses, etc.

5. Yea, I WILL be patient. But I will also withdraw from time to time to avoid being overwhelmed and to recharge my batteries. I have my own identity, my own life to live, my own projects and must avoid any tendency towards emotional codependency or God forbid, to fall prey to the gross delusion that I am the ONLY one who sees clearly into and can fix this enfp! And I also need ways of relieving the frustration sometimes, of very subtly supervising someone else, when I long for another equal. Had I been a man, I would never ever let this enfp go...Good thing I am not then!!!

 

[callmemigs]

my twin sister is borderline F and she's ENtP. She can be annoying especially when I'm totally upset. She always say she's trying to cheer me up.

 

[CzeCze]

Sorry, dudes, if there's one ENFP trait I can't grasp, it's undying love for INTJs. If it's required that I go out and get one, I should probably just either stab myself in the head or change my type now.

LOL. I have an INTJ female friend IRL and we get along well.

I know other types who quickly got over being charmed by her, call her hypocritical, neurotic, superficial and have told her in no uncertain terms that they had better things to do.

I know this is over-used, but it seems like your ENFP is "immature" meaning still very much growing into herself and stuck on this anxiety loop of making sure people like her above all else. I remember that to me at a certain point in my life, censure, criticism, conflict were unbearable. My neurons would practically pop out of my skull. So I trained myself to take it - I found out later this is a form of cognitive therapy, to literally desensitize you to something.

It's not that your root neuroses or whatnot change, it's just that you literally get so used to something that you no longer care. Perhaps the point of desensitizing is to tap out the adrenalin and other neurotransmitter processes when you are exposed to that stimuli (criticism, conflict) - basically short-circuiting evolutionary self-preservational mechanisms that no longer serve a purpose in this modern world.

Anyhow, as a fellow ENFP I do see the "mixed signals and somewhat confusing behavior" in myself. Also the spinning my wheels and doing anything possible to keep my mind off things and keeping things constantly in motion. It takes a minute for Fi to work itself out internally and me to feel safe and okay clearly expressing it to the world.

However, I do not condone lashing out to those closest to you or behaving irresponsibly towards others. I think that's cowardly, you do it because you don't have the guts to confront what is really bothering you in life. You should never hurt the people closest to you just because they are the easiest targets or you bank on the fact they are too invested or enamored of you to leave. I despise that and I lose respect for people when I see it. Get a handle on yourself and grow up.

I am much more likely to withdraw and just be alone until things are sorted out than act out.

I think other people who are charmed by ENFPs have a lot more patience for "ENFP bad behavior" than I do and more likely to chalk it up to the overwhelming and mercurial nature of Fi. I'm over it. I chalk up bad behavior to people not getting a handle on themselves and not trying. If you at least make an honest effort in my eyes than I am very understanding, but if you don't even try I don't have much (any) sympathy or time for you.

And yes, this is very much rooted in feeling like "I've been where you've been" or "I'm where you are" - I have to deal with it, you do, too.

Every person and every type has a cross to bear but should you really be allowed to get away with more just because people like you most of the time or think you're a free spirit?

People do a disservice to one another by letting them off too easily. I am starting to feel like a lot of people in my life have let me get away with a lot (or really let me get away with doing nothing much at all) because they figure I am a "free spirit" and "that's just CzeCze" and they can tell I'm running from something and would not be amenable to what they have to say. The only person who really hounded me was an INTP friend but she has since given up.

That's why it's important for ENFPs to take it upon ourselves to do it for ourselves. A lot of times the lack of criticism in our lives isn't approval, it's people not taking us seriously, giving up, and letting us coast.

Then there are those who choose to stay around but I can see them carefully emotionally distancing themselves... Maybe it is a 'social skill' to know how to do that while maintaining a semblance of intimacy. Mouthing the right words, blowing the right kisses, etc.

You mean the ENFP is exhibiting that 'social skill' or other people who are distancing themselves?

And Mr. Teddy Bear you are saintly to put up with all this. I'm sure your ENFP does appreciate the heck out of you even when she's not. I'm sure if you remind her then her window of focus will snap back on you and she'll realize the ways she can be flighty. Or she'll tell you she had no idea you felt like this because you always feel close to her heart.

 

[Lasting_Pain]

An ENFP broke my heart into little pieces. That is why I will never love again