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[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Voicing your Thoughts

shimsham

New member
Joined
Oct 15, 2007
Messages
94
MBTI Type
infj
Hi Everyone,

I'm pretty new here, so apologies if someone's already posted on this topic in the past. My question is this:

Do you find it easy to verbalize your thoughts? In my case, the patterning/processing of my thoughts tend to occur on a highly experiential level, sort of like landscapes of opinions and emotions, and only occasionally in a more verbal, word-based form.

Because of this, when someone asks me for my opinion on something or the dreaded "What are you thinking right now," I need to spend a bit of time "translating" my ideas into something readily understandable by anyone else. Sometimes I'm not in the mood to push things through that mental filter, so I give the stock response of "nothing much," when that is really quite far from the case.
 

shimsham

New member
Joined
Oct 15, 2007
Messages
94
MBTI Type
infj
That'd be refreshing. Thinking about nothing for a bit.
 

Ghost of the dead horse

filling some space
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
3,553
MBTI Type
ENTJ
I find it easy to express mostly anything I think; I also think Ti-style all the time, without being able to stop it for more than 20-30 minutes a day. Most everything that I think is already in my head in readily expressible form, so it's just a trivial exercise to actually bring it up.

Ne kind of things, I recognize, are less understandable to many people (and that's one of my strong functions), and I feel that something is lost in translation from head -> world. I can express and give ideas that relate to the thing I want to say, but I have to bounce the ideas a bit with the person to make sure that I communicated it in a way that he understood.

Fi, I bring this up verbally with Ti style mostly, in an analyzing way. But I bring it up mostly non-verbally, when I feel like it. I don't express my feelings often, but I almost always recognize person's feelings when I see them (their non-verbal clues) and somehow that seems to trigger my understanding of their feelings.

So I'd say that ability to express depends on the function used to express the subject matter, and the persons proficiency and preference for said function.
 

ladypinkington

Rubber Nipple Salesperson
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
1,126
MBTI Type
INFJ
Verbalizing is really hard for me. I understand so many things based on my intuition but without knowing how to describe or explain. That is so freaking frustrating. Plus I "think" outloud and it takes me a while to actually figure out what I am wanting to say and it takes an interesting journey to get there,lol.

If I am with someone who is good at helping to organize my thoughts and rephrase things I am saying in a more precise and condensed way- then it is easier for me to understand how I am being understood or misunderstood and it's like I need what I am saying to be a group effort,lol.

When I speak I tend to be so abstract so it takes someone perhaps with good intuition themselves to understand me and help me along.

I am much better at writing my thoughts and ideas down on paper- but sometimes it takes too much effort and time to write and I lose patience and want to develop my verbalizing skills or lack there of more.
 

quietgirl

New member
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
401
MBTI Type
INFJ
Verbalizing is extremely hard for me. Usually when someone puts me on the stop, I have trouble saying ANYTHING so then I look unintelligent or uncaring. If I am active in a verbal conversation, I usually have to sit back for the beginning of it and then jump in once I have a good grasp on what I want to say.

However, writing is a whole 'nother story! I can write novels explaining what's in my head if it's on paper or on the computer.
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Hi Everyone,
Do you find it easy to verbalize your thoughts? In my case, the patterning/processing of my thoughts tend to occur on a highly experiential level, sort of like landscapes of opinions and emotions, and only occasionally in a more verbal, word-based form.

I identify very much with your landscape analogy.

It's almost like I have a million things going on at once, and all of the thoughts kind of flow, and they keep flowing, and once I've come to a conclusion, or solidified something in my mind, my word-based form doesn't even do it justice, because it is only a 2-sentence 'summary' of my conclusion, and it would be absolutely impossible to verbalize everything I was thinking/feeling, in order to get to that conclusion.

I also definitely don't have a point A-->point B--> point C thought process. It's more that point A goes to 10 different points, and some of those sub-points can wrap around to point B, and other sub-points get disregarded, and others form other sub-points that then jump on to point D....etc. This also makes it nearly impossible to *explain* my thoughts on something. I'd probably have to write a book. ;-)
 

quietgirl

New member
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
401
MBTI Type
INFJ
I also definitely don't have a point A-->point B--> point C thought process. It's more that point A goes to 10 different points, and some of those sub-points can wrap around to point B, and other sub-points get disregarded, and others form other sub-points that then jump on to point D....etc. This also makes it nearly impossible to *explain* my thoughts on something. I'd probably have to write a book. ;-)

YES! :)

Do you get afterthoughts a lot? I'll explain something and then 5 minutes later realize that I need to say more to further explain my abstract thoughts or sometimes I'll have thought up a new perspective. So I'll be compelled to continue a discussion further & normally at that point, the discussion's ended. There's a better way to explain an afterthought, but I can't seem to articulate it properly right now.
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Do you get afterthoughts a lot? I'll explain something and then 5 minutes later realize that I need to say more to further explain my abstract thoughts or sometimes I'll have thought up a new perspective. So I'll be compelled to continue a discussion further & normally at that point, the discussion's ended. There's a better way to explain an afterthought, but I can't seem to articulate it properly right now.

Yep, I do this all the time. :) In fact, I do this rather often over email!
 

shimsham

New member
Joined
Oct 15, 2007
Messages
94
MBTI Type
infj
YES! :)

Do you get afterthoughts a lot? I'll explain something and then 5 minutes later realize that I need to say more to further explain my abstract thoughts or sometimes I'll have thought up a new perspective. So I'll be compelled to continue a discussion further & normally at that point, the discussion's ended. There's a better way to explain an afterthought, but I can't seem to articulate it properly right now.


I do this all the time too. It's frustrating when it's become "too late" to bring up a thread of conversation again. I always wish I could come up with comments just a bit more quickly, then I'd be the life of the party (and probably not an INFJ anymore).
 

GZA

Resident Snot-Nose
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
1,771
MBTI Type
infp
It depends... sometimes I can verbally express things quite well, other times I can't... I think differently than I talk, so it can be hard.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
Enneagram
1w2
Do you find it easy to verbalize your thoughts? In my case, the patterning/processing of my thoughts tend to occur on a highly experiential level, sort of like landscapes of opinions and emotions, and only occasionally in a more verbal, word-based form.

I used this picture to describe ENJs in my MBTI Paintings thread because I found it to be a very accurate pictorial description of my world.

1987.8_1b.jpg


To answer your question yes and no. I say yes because there are types of thoughts in my head that are very organized and structured that I am able to communicate quite well to other people. I'm very adamant (almost a stickler) for explaining my logic, reasoning, and motivations for doing something. Maybe I'm compensating, idk. I try to make sure I'm getting feedback from the person I'm talking to make sure they understand what I'm saying and why I'm saying it. But somewhere in my explanations is when the problem begins. The more I talk and try to make myself understood, the more confused I become. Some people become more resolute and focused as they talk, but not me. (I think) I begin to confuse people when they originally understood what I'm saying. Usually my first thoughts are the best thoughts and I try to limit what I say to those good thoughts. I think that I get so caught up in explaining myself that I end up speaking nonsense. But generally, no I don't have a problem verbalizing certain types of thoughts.

The no: I choose the picture above because to me it represents moving from structured to less structured. For the other types of thoughts, there's usually some framework that my they are working in; even if it's just barebones. There are frequent occurrences of my thoughts feeling like they're going to coming running out of any available orifice in my body because there's not enough room for them in my head. There's definitely a feeling of imposing order onto something but that has the potential to be overwhelming, but they're very well-behaved and usually stay where I put them. Honestly, those moments when I have to structure are uncomfortable and little surreal. One day they're going to bust out of their very comfortable room I've made for them leave footprints and stains all over my carpet.
 

shimsham

New member
Joined
Oct 15, 2007
Messages
94
MBTI Type
infj
Verbalizing is extremely hard for me. Usually when someone puts me on the stop, I have trouble saying ANYTHING so then I look unintelligent or uncaring. If I am active in a verbal conversation, I usually have to sit back for the beginning of it and then jump in once I have a good grasp on what I want to say.

However, writing is a whole 'nother story! I can write novels explaining what's in my head if it's on paper or on the computer.

I tend to have the same experience, particularly when interrupted mid-thought. I can do better with voicing non-emotional thoughts than emotional ones (work-related conversations, etc.). It's when I'm trying to verbalize opinions on something multi-faceted like, for example, philosophical conversations, that I really feel like I'm putting my foot in my mouth. I kind of check up with the other person every once in awhile to make sure I'm getting my vague point across.

I guess you could say I'd prefer to work out my ideas during the conversation, rather than going into it with a fixed opinion. In that sense, I'm not particularly opinionated because I can approach an idea from several different directions. You could say it's wishy-washiness, but I'd like to think of it in a more positive light.

And yes, writing is much easier than talking, any day.
 

niffer

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Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
1,217
MBTI Type
ENfP
Enneagram
8w9
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Oh, sure.

Also verbalizing them helps me to refine the thoughts. Easier to see holes in logic when you have things set into words.
 

shadowstormz

New member
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
22
MBTI Type
INFJ
As a fellow INFJ, I can relate. Something's always on mind. In my case, if it isn't family, it's friends. If it isn't about friends, it's work/school. And if it's not that, it's another problem unrelated to the prior three or even perhaps thinking of ways to improve my life or questioning why the world is the way it is. Perhaps finding symbolism in a situation, parallel meanings between two instances, etc etc. Am I striking a cord? Hehe.

Anyway, I also find it hard to voice my thoughts. And when I finally get something out to say, I often feel that it's misunderstood because the explanation was so brief while the thought was so in-depth.

That's just my two-cents, though.

About the afterthoughts, I'm starting to think we've found an INFJ pattern. :D
 
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