[INFJ] Are INFJ's a mixed bag?

[Wyst]

I’m inclined to think it’s more a matter of being secure/insecure. To me, the term ‘maturity’ denotes growth that doesn’t easily retrograde.

Hmm, not sure I agree. Like we've been saying there are many types of INFJs - maybe some are on different scales (a maturity scale/a security scale).

You've also got immature and mature INFJs - those who haven't grown up a lot in their MBTI and those who have - this also adds a new level of diversity within the INFJ type.

I think most of the disparity between INFJs can be summed up by a combination of 1) is the INFJ comfortable in their own skin 2) is the INFJ continually holding people at arm's length.

I'd say that some of the people I'm most guarded with are actually in situations where I am comfortable. It is precisely because I'm comfortable that I let people in close - yet when they're close is when they can hurt me the most.

If I were insecure, I wouldn't have let them in to begin with. Once I've let them in, suddenly shutting them out because of my fears (which everyone has), despite wanting to be close to them, is silly, selfish, and self-centered - immature.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I'd say that some of the people I'm most guarded with are actually in situations where I am comfortable. It is precisely because I'm comfortable that I let people in close - yet when they're close is when they can hurt me the most.

If I were insecure, I wouldn't have let them in to begin with. Once I've let them in, suddenly shutting them out because of my fears (which everyone has), despite wanting to be close to them, is silly, selfish, and self-centered - immature.

I think the term 'insecure' has a negative stigma which is kind of interfering with the point I was trying to make.

On a whole, I feel a lot more 'secure' than most of the people I know. I was trying to get at that 'comfortable in one's own skin' feeling. It just seems to me that it has a little bit less to do with maturity than it has to do with specific situation/immediate circumstance. (Though maturity is definitely a component.)

 

[Wyst]

I think the term 'insecure' has a negative stigma which is kind of interfering with the point I was trying to make.

lol - I think the same thing about stigmas can be said for 'immature' as well.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

lol - I think the same thing about stigmas can be said for 'immature' as well.

It's possible I was splitting hairs on the 'maturity/immaturity' thing. It just seems like I don't fly in and out of 'maturity' nearly as often as I fly in and out of feeling 'comfortable in my own skin'.

Edit: In short, Wyst, I agree with you- I was just kind of experimenting with saying it in a different way?

 

[Wyst]

It's possible I was splitting hairs on the 'maturity/immaturity' thing. It just seems like I don't fly in and out of 'maturity' nearly as often as I fly in and out of feeling 'comfortable in my own skin'.

Edit: In short, Wyst, I agree with you- I was just kind of experimenting with saying it in a different way?

I see what you're saying now. Word.

Agreed - I don't fly in and out of maturity either. When I was talking about immature INFJs, I meant those who have yet to reach 'maturity' as an INFJ. I'd suspect once an INFJ hit it, wherever/whatever it is, they'd be reticent/unable to go back to the old ways.

 

[Fidelia]

I agree with Sarcasticus that there seem to be a fairly diverse range of INFJs. However, in my personal experience: I am not highly J, I am fairly extroverted as long as I am in a comfortable setting, although I am definitely balanced in favour of F rather than being even with T. I like what Z Buck had to say about being comfortable in your own skin. I've found that as I've gotten older I've probably exhibited characteristics that were in me before but my inner editor was too strong at that time and I felt too uncomfortable to express them.

 

[hokie912]

I don't think anyone would confuse me for an extravert in real life; I can talk a lot when I'm interested in a topic and I can be somewhat outgoing, but I'm fundamentally a very reserved person. I'm confused for a thinking type online and irl because I keep the vast majority of my emotions inside and I try to approach discussions from an Ni-Ti standpoint. As for Perceiving, only if you think that P=disorganized, scatterbrained, and indecisive. Otherwise, I don't resemble a P.

Very much the same for me. I'm reserved in my emotional expression and approach most discussions from a logical, often detached, Ni-driven standpoint. Depending on whether they've seen the more expressive side of me, some people might think I'm a T. And, unfortunately, a lot of people do think that P means scatterbrained and disorganized while J means organized and always on top of things. I frequently have to defend my J-ness to MBTI-interested friends. I've considered that I might be INFP, but ultimately I find that I have much more in common with other NJs.

 

[the state i am in]

I’m inclined to think it’s more a matter of being secure/insecure. To me, the term ‘maturity’ denotes growth that doesn’t easily retrograde. Feelings of security (or insecurity) are more transient and fluctuate differently according to different environments.

In insecure situations, I am far less in touch with my cognitive process and/or my own personal strengths (where functions are concerned). In such scenarios I find myself trying to be as invisible as possible- if only in attempt to ‘observe’ without my thought process being interrupted. Whenever I’m not feeling particularly secure, yet it isn’t quite available to be ‘invisible’- my behavior is kind of ‘all over the place’ because I’m basically just blindly ‘mirroring’ whoever I’m interacting with (until the first moment I can get away).

In environments where I feel more secure my behavior is much more grounded and consistent.

It is related to maturity, however, in this sense: the more mature I get, the less I generally experience insecurity.

Edit: another way to define 'insecure environment' is to call it 'foreign environment'. I don't feel (like Wyst said) 'comfortable in my own skin' in a foreign environment.

perfect writing.

what i get better at is partly maturity (which to me signifies smoothly shifting between functions, balancing, getting better information to deactivate bombs and to slow down runaway trains and stop the vicious cycles), partly maintenance (journaling, taking care of my body, finding constructive outlets, learning how to work), and most of all, constructing a positive social network that can help even me out at times, make me feel appreciated, connect with others positively, and help them in return. where you can use your best skills in a way that is appreciated and valued. which has a lot to do with finding other Ns.

but yeah, you said it. security slips thru greasy fingers the moment you get fat and complacent. finding ways to expand at your own rate, adapt to new situations, ask of yourself the right questions that can help keep you on track and come closer to realistic expectations for yourself than previously, help you deal with the fluxiness of the unknown and the contentious.

 

[Lux]

I don't think anyone would confuse me for an extravert in real life; I can talk a lot when I'm interested in a topic and I can be somewhat outgoing, but I'm fundamentally a very reserved person. I'm confused for a thinking type online and irl because I keep the vast majority of my emotions inside and I try to approach discussions from an Ni-Ti standpoint.

^ It's the same for me. When I first took the test I got INTJ, but I didn't really think it was an overall fit with me. Then after a while I took the test as I honestly felt as opposed to what I try to do and I got INFJ. The profile fit me much more. While I do use feeling I try to not let it overwhelm me. It's the same with me because I can actually be very outgoing, but I'm definitely not an extrovert.

 

[Goodewitch]

I think its evident that INFJ's are a mixed bag to some extent,.. as are all types.
Wyst commented on mature/immature INFJ's.. but keeping people at arms length doesnt always constitute immaturity. One may WANT closeness with others, but as an extremely introverted and N person, I find it difficult to see past my own judgements and hunches about people,.. they're usually right, by the way. Ultimately, an INFJ I think, more than any other type, can forsee problems with people before they happen.
I also have no interest in forcing myself to not hold people back, when i'm supremely uninterested in them, their ways, or their social merry go round, and I dont think thats immature.. that IS being comfortable in my own skin.
My own conclusion from reading posts on here, from other INFJ's.. is that the bellcurve of E and I is quite wide in INFJ's. Myself being at the extreme I part of that curve, more than any others I've read posts from.
Does that make me imature? hopefully not.
G. x

 

[Ben Dover]

For myself, I'd say that I'm only really shy and reserved when I'm first adjusting to a situation. Once I feel comfortable, or force myself to feel comfortable, I have no problem being talkative and people sometimes mistake me for an extrovert. I guess the difference is that it really doesn't take a whole lot for me to feel uncomfortable again and then crawl back into my Ni shell.

 

[the state i am in]

well what is maturity in this case? we grow accustomed to and secure in our judgments of the situation, our ability to feel confident that our judgments are right. we employ outdated Fe channels to assume various truths, that adopt various tones, that consist of assumptions and stereotype the actual F of the world around us, the holism trapped in its individual voices trying to escape and understand itself. we rely on these in order to protect ourselves in our own semblance of security, that they protect our carefully constructed self-identity and self-defense against the threats of the world because we are afraid to let them in when we cannot possibly process them all and respond accordingly. but the impossible complexity of their voices keeps us young and allows us to become younger yet, to become greener instead of crotchety mahogany old.

not accepting is just a cop-out for feeling incapable of understanding, for feeling tired and overrun by the complexity of the world. it gets us all and we cannot possibly contain all of the world's contradictions but yet we do and it is what we live in and what we are in fact made up of.

infjs process these in their own ways but they do have a potential for seeing that is not purely negation but instead can recognize the complexity of existence in a specific infinitely representable interior space. its why we read crotchety old emily dickinson poems and bother with blake's coptic mysticism. something in their languages reaches an expression of clarity and awareness that transcends the languages and cultures and understandings of their times (and places).

 

[Skyward]

I think the 'range' people see in INFJs is just because we tend to have different amounts of 'mental energy' from day to day, or even from hour to hour. I know I can start a day out great and then feel pretty depressed by the end of it for no good reason. Maybe it's because when people ask us 'what's up?' we cant really tell them because we DONT know what's up.

Our minds aren't as straight as other types. Even our closest other type, INTJ, has a straighter mind because of how linear Te is compared to Fe. Their mental organization doesn't change as much, and if it does it is due to logical reasoning based on new information. Computer vs DNA, a person can edit a hard-drive without messy consequences while editing DNA is much less straightforward because who knows what kind of things could happen that you weren't aware of.

Not to mention a weaker Ti could be a problem too, we can show ourselves the logic, but that doesn't mean it'll change our mind on a subject.

Either way I hope this post makes sense.

 

[ladypinkington]

I think the 'range' people see in INFJs is just because we tend to have different amounts of 'mental energy' from day to day, or even from hour to hour. I know I can start a day out great and then feel pretty depressed by the end of it for no good reason. Maybe it's because when people ask us 'what's up?' we cant really tell them because we DONT know what's up.

Our minds aren't as straight as other types. Even our closest other type, INTJ, has a straighter mind because of how linear Te is compared to Fe. Their mental organization doesn't change as much, and if it does it is due to logical reasoning based on new information. Computer vs DNA, a person can edit a hard-drive without messy consequences while editing DNA is much less straightforward because who knows what kind of things could happen that you weren't aware of.

Not to mention a weaker Ti could be a problem two, we can show ourselves the logic, but that doesn't mean it'll change our mind on a subject.

Either way I hope this post makes sense.

Great point and it all made great sense to me. I always feel it hard to answer questions like what is going on with me or how do I feel or what do I think of something because I am always perpelexed as what is the reality!? I am aware that there are many possibilities and perspectives-but whose is right- How do I assess something properly and report something properly-my J wants to file things as good or bad- right or wrong but my N sees possibilities and wants to analyze and see the bigger picture-My N questions my J and so I am very second guessing of myself. Opinions and facts are hard for me because I can't easily seperate the two or see how others seperate them. I must investigate and search out, I am afraid to give an answer and will always ask the same in return to compare. Also I can feel everything at once, all emotions at once and it is as if I express them by letting them take turns.

The INF softens up the Jness, the NJ toughens up the Fness, and the FJ makes the Iness more socially assertive.

Boom. Puzzle solved.

I actually found this to be on the spot.

 

[PoprocksAndCoke]

I've heard that INFJ's are the most T of the F's, the most E of the introverts, and the most P of the Judgers.

Do you think that's true or is it that no one really understands the type?

INFJ's do you think this of yourselves? If so, is it something that comes naturally to you or have you worked on becoming more T, E, or P?

I welcome thoughts from everyone.

It's definitely true for me. It took a long time to type myself because I can be very extraverted, show lots of Fe, am very logical and a lot of the time, rational, and I'm organized and structured but messy and laidback.

 

[musttry]

I actually found this to be on the spot.

Me too!

 

[Billy]

I think INFJ are incredibly mixed, its the development of their Ni/Fe dom which can go a ton of different ways because its so abstract. I am consistently being told I am a different type all the time because I don't conform to what people think a stereotypical and easy to understand INFJ is SUPPOSED to be.

 

[MonkeyGrass]

Skyward- good summary.

I've found this to be true for me, as well.

 

[Skyward]

I think INFJ are incredibly mixed, its the development of their Ni/Fe dom which can go a ton of different ways because its so abstract. I am consistently being told I am a different type all the time because I don't conform to what people think a stereotypical and easy to understand INFJ is SUPPOSED to be.

They seem to be thinking about smart ISFJ Entype4s (They're out there) when they think like that. This is where many ISFJs mistype themselves and INFJ. This also adds another illusion of 'complexity' in the INFJ type.

 

[BlueScreen]

I've heard that INFJ's are the most T of the F's, the most E of the introverts, and the most P of the Judgers.

Sorry...

Maybe the E part is right.