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[Fi] INTJ Needs Help with Fi

Uytuun

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So, I've been developing Fi for some years now and I feel that it is tearing me apart increasingly. It's been good in that I've become a nicer and much less one-dimensional person, but it's also added torment, anxiety, doubt (I used to be so certain, a go-getter...want x do y, simple as that), some self-confidence seems to have gone, lots of ambition went down the drain...previous plans became hollow and meaningless. Most of the time I don't know what drives me, I end up procrastinating and not knowing how to control myself or if I should control myself...I feel like I'm the victim of something inside of me that is essential, yet beyond my grasp.

I'm much more like an INTP in behaviour (you know how they can seem tormented and paralysed by the introverted judging process of their preference and how they can stop doing what they "have to do" and give priority to what they "want" to explore) than an INTJ these days although the Te is clearly still there, it seems to be overwhelmed. Possibly I'm even more like an INFP in behaviour, but I don't have as much experience with/exposure to them.

I feel unfixed, unsure, blubbering all over the place and lost as to who I am...I'm also more irrational, more easily angered (I used to be way less angry) and disappointed because something isn't in line with my values (which can seem very idiosyncratic). It's very confusing, sometimes it's like noone understands me or the relevance of what I posit. And I wonder what that makes of me...am I not good enough? Is this a way of trying to explain away my recent worldly failings? Or are the failings a result of my not caring about Te stuff anymore the way I used to? I did not have this problem two years ago let's say.

I strongly feel like I'm letting myself go too much and need to pull myself together, but I think this can only be achieved by listening to Fi, not by imposing Te onto it. I've tried it, it doesn't work longer than a day or two.

So (Fi-doms) how do you listen to your Fi? How do you steer it? How do you integrate it?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm planning on taking ballet classes once I've found a job/apartment. It just really appealed to me/touched me when I saw a video of a dancer and I've been researching and I'm enthusiastic about it - it's been a while since that happened.

I suppose that I should also try to find a job with a company that I really want to work for, or whose general project I endorse. I think that'll be important. Being part of something that enthuses me (like NASA :D).
 

Amargith

Hotel California
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Welcome to the wonderful world of Fi. It's hell on earth at first :D

Fi is about who you are. And, it's incredibly hard to control at first. Dosing is imperative, however is almost impossible when you first start using it. It's like when you first started to figure out how to colour within the lines...soo hard to control your hand to do so!

Unfortunately, where with drawing you'd only wreck the drawing by colouring outside the lines, with Fi you do a whole lot more damage...as you may have noticed.

So..set some time aside for yourself. Believe that this is useful, that you owe this to yourself. Self-reflect, meditate, find what it is that brings meaning to your life. What your motivations are. Ask yourself all those difficult questions: who are you, what do you wanna do with your life, how will you go about this, how do different situations affect you and how do you want to respond.

Once you figure out the answers, you're half-way. Yes..only half-way. Knowing your Fi isn't the same as controlling it. After that, you learn how to implement it. And there, you're luckily better equipped than NFPs: you have Te to channel it through. Let Fi motivate your decisions and use your superior Te to find out how to get it. To make it run smoothly, instead of going about it bluntly. Coz make no mistake, Fi is instant, blunt and has no patience whatsoever. So learn to curb the reflex to react on it instantly, double-check what it is telling you (this is where a thorough knowledge of your needs, wishes, weak sides and values willl come in handy) and then have Te judge how to best go about it...EVEN if this means biding your time. ESPECIALLY if this means biding your time.

Fi is opening flood gates. It seems to be meant to kept closed or open fully. That's rarely the case though. Learning how to open and close them swiftly and controlled, and only a little bit when needed is a pain in the ass. But it is soooo worth it. And it will enrich and deepen your emotional experiences in this life tremendously as well as add an incredibly depth and meaning to your life.

And hopefully..you have/will find one or two rare individuals who will enjoy you fully pulling those flood gates open and basking in the person that is you, allowing your Fi to stretch its legs without any restriction whatsoever. Let the wild horse run free at times. It so longs for it. Just make sure it cannot break anything in the process ;)
 

Usehername

On a mission
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May 30, 2007
Messages
3,794
I'll comment more later, but my Fi is more about ideals and the kind of person I want to grow into or what things I want to take a stand on, rather than inducing any negative things like anxiety, etc. Though sometimes I take a stand on things that I should just Te over and shrug my shoulders to, it's a balancing act trying to prioritize functions.
 

Agnosco311

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This is pretty unrelated to the conversation but I've been a fan of the MBTI and David Keirsey's Temperament Sorter for awhile but I'm relatively new to the Socionics ideas of the the Te and Fi... can somebody recommend a good thread to read/website or could take a few minutes to lay down a "...for Dummies" summary?
 

the state i am in

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my intj has similar issues currently. her med school situation is giving her a beating by not catering to her needs or recognizing her strengths in any positive way.

to me it is kind of like a wake-up call (perhaps a call of conscience). you have to use Te to incorporate the Fi uncertainty, to use it in a way that addresses your lack of motivation and most of all focus. giving yourself time to work out your issues is very important, but it's difficult to access the problems directly. the tertiary function is supposedly an unconscious function, part of what integrates your right-brainedness and gives you a more expansive connection to the world, apart from the immediate hyper-focused context-driven Ni world that feels like home.

for me i feel lost often, Fe is what gives me context to navigate my way thru the world (like your Te). but for me, it fails more often bc it is more environmental and more relational and more contingent on success with others rather than specific objective definable goals. if the environment turns dark, so do i. for me to combat this, i've learned accepting the problem (that Fe or Te can't adequately solve this dilemma and single-handedly balance my introverted Ni desires, attitudes, perceptions, etc), continue working at it, but incorporate more basic Ti or Fi landmarks into my picture until i have something solid to go on. something that says, i may not fully understand this or be able to create a perfect solution, but at least i know what i fucking care about, what is important to ME, what i need from life and from myself as i continue on my path.

i find something really cathartic like bikram yoga, or getting high and writing it out to be the most beneficial. i feel more on-track, more confident that i can do what i need to do to be happy, more accepting of the world around me and my ability to find my way within it, etc. it is difficult bc it is so murky down there in teh world of inroverted judgment (Ti or Fi for us injs), and it doesn't really help us to dive FULL ON into it and avoid the platform that has made us who we are. we need to incorporate it more slowly, focus on finding something solid that we can trust, and moving on from there. tempering it like an eggy custard. bc we are not practiced nor aware enough in these foreign domains to be able to handle life/the world/the self with JUST Ti or JUST Fi alone. and we shouldn't have to, just spend more time hearing it, listening to it, weighing it with your other tools still standing by, and it seems like it works better than any other way.

i would like to hear more, bc i have been struggling finding a way to be supportive thru this process. what is your enneagram type, if i might ask?
 

SciVo

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Fi is a tiger. You can't just force it to do what you want it to (as you found). However! You also can't use Fi to manage its own volatility and idiosyncrasy, since those are part of its essence. The key to the conundrum is to shift your goal to being a "tiger whisperer," working with it to make it want to do what you want it to do.

As I see it, tiger-whispering your Fi has two parts: finding how to use your powerful feelings to make your experience of yourself (and your social interactions) better rather than worse, and finding how to use your need for personal meaning to make your experience of the world (and your life path) richer rather than poorer. Here are some possible ways for you to use your INTj Ti/Ne as a "tiger team" (pun intended) to manage your Fi more productively.

For the first problem, I suggest slightly intellectualizing your feelings by explicitly satisfying their purpose, which is to deliver a message from your subconscious about your perception of how your circumstances are impacting one or more of your universal human needs. (For example, anger is a signal of a perceived boundary violation.) At least for me, once I step back, identify the need involved, and validate it to myself, then it's easier for me to move on to questioning whether my perception is correct (and if so, brainstorming a response).

For the second problem, I suggest slightly intellectualizing your values by writing out a brief autobiography. Once you've externalized your life up to now, then you can examine it for patterns that aren't as obvious from the inside, and come up with creative ways of bringing your life in line with your personal ideals without sacrificing other things that matter to you, like career success. In fact, it wouldn't hurt to do all of the exercises (that's just the first one) in Work With Passion by Nancy Anderson.

I hope this was helpful. Regardless, I wish you the best!
 

OrangeAppled

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Self-reflect, meditate, find what it is that brings meaning to your life.

Knowing your Fi isn't the same as controlling it. After that, you learn how to implement it.

Coz make no mistake, Fi is instant, blunt and has no patience whatsoever. So learn to curb the reflex to react on it instantly, double-check what it is telling you (this is where a thorough knowledge of your needs, wishes, weak sides and values willl come in handy)

Fi is opening flood gates. It seems to be meant to kept closed or open fully. That's rarely the case though. Learning how to open and close them swiftly and controlled, and only a little bit when needed is a pain in the ass. But it is soooo worth it. And it will enrich and deepen your emotional experiences in this life tremendously as well as add an incredibly depth and meaning to your life.

This puts it very nicely.

As an INFP, I find it imperative to keep in control of my emotions and not let them cloud the reasoning aspect of Fi, but to still make use of what they are telling me. It's kind of a constant struggle, which is why we are often defined as having internal conflicts on a grand scale. It seems necessary to express the undesired feeling in some healthy format, as a sort of cleansing so that you can then see more clearly. Writing, music, nature, etc, all seems very therapeutic for an INFP. I would argue that INFPs are actually excellent at dealing with their emotions, which is why we can seem pretty reserved and calm outwardly, save for the occasional outburst (from stress and being pushed too far).

Ballet sounds like a great idea. Sometimes focusing on something physical allows your mind to take a break from the "Grand Internal Conflict", relax, calm those intense random emotions that crash over you, and then when you return to it, things aren't so overwhelming. I personally will experience physical ailments that stem from not dealing with stressful feelings, and yoga/pilates/bike riding is great at stress relief so I can then deal with my feelings in a calmer state and avoid those little health issues.

You might also consider reaching out to other people in some way. When Fi is a mess, healing others can heal yourself. It puts your own feelings/life back into perspective. If you allow it to, Fi can be extremely self-absorbed, but it doesn't have to be. Try seeing yourself as other people, letting Fi react as them, and then you will grow a greater sense of compassion, which is one of the champions of Fi. In this way, you will also find your emotional connections to people much deeper and stronger, and you will know and understand them better.

So this doesn't mean ignoring emotions or seeing them as bad. Fi can refine values by examining why something produces an emotion. This is why it is important to work out emotions before acting on them. Listening to your emotions can tell you a lot about yourself, your needs, your values, your flaws and your strengths. In this sense, Fi is not pure emotion or steered by it, but rather emotion serves as a valuable tool for Fi.
 

Uytuun

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i would like to hear more, bc i have been struggling finding a way to be supportive thru this process. what is your enneagram type, if i might ask?

Most likely 5w4 with a prominent 3w2 heart fix and 9w1 gut.

It just feels extremely disorienting, as if the ground you're standing on disappeared. And it breeds rebellion in me. An aversion to any kind of expectation as well. I lash out at people sometimes...it's really hard to be rational about and own and take responsibility for. It seems to be a very I-oriented process. I guess in some ways I'm more of a teenager now than I was as a teen. :p

I used to always make it work, these days I find I often have to ask for extensions on deadlines etc. which makes me feel bad about myself...I always delivered what I promised. Te is still hovering in the background as a standard. It's not very good for the ego...

What else would you like to know?

Thanks for the replies so far...keep'em coming.
 

thescientist

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I'd be interested in hearing others responses as well. I can relate so much to how you feel Uytuun, except maybe the feeling more anger part. I'm also a weak J and have lots of P tendencies.

I've been feeling a bit disoriented and unorganized...not meeting deadlines or others expectations, which in the past I would have NEVER allowed. I'm not crazy about my job. I'm not being challenged and it sucks.

The bit about dancing is interesting. Dancing is SO LIBERATING for me. I would absolutely recommend it. I salsa dance. I dont dance often anymore, but when I do, it transports me to another world. Would love to learn jazz/lyrical dancing.

I'm a little more stable now, but not 100% yet.

Might be a bit of a personal question. Do you suffer from depression? I suffer from mild chronic depression. I just weaned myself off my medication recently because it was making me way too passive about everything. I was missing my anxious/perfectionist ways. As much as they drive me crazy, they keep me and my life in order. So in that sense, getting off the meds has helped me to somehow refocus again.
 

Uytuun

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Might be a bit of a personal question. Do you suffer from depression? I suffer from mild chronic depression. I just weaned myself off my medication recently because it was making me way too passive about everything. I was missing my anxious/perfectionist ways. As much as they drive me crazy, they keep me and my life in order. So in that sense, getting off the meds has helped me to somehow refocus again.

I was actually wondering about that earlier today, but I don't think so, never been diagnosed with it either. I tend more towards compulsive freak-out moments (in thought, no stress cleaning here :D)...I get satisfaction out of life, I laugh and feel, but I'm no longer very enthusiastic about what I would call Te institutions (work and school). I've never been an über-J, but I was more involved in those institutions before. Now I seem to be blocked when it comes to the things that I *have* to do.
 

SciVo

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I was actually wondering about that earlier today, but I don't think so, never been diagnosed with it either. I tend more towards compulsive freak-out moments (in thought, no stress cleaning here :D)...I get satisfaction out of life, I laugh and feel, but I'm no longer very enthusiastic about what I would call Te institutions (work and school). I've never been an über-J, but I was more involved in those institutions before. Now I seem to be blocked when it comes to the things that I *have* to do.

You may need to reframe them in terms of a higher purpose, in order to see how they're in line with your values. For example, a janitor could reframe his job from the task of cleaning objects to the purpose of protecting the aesthetic sense and physical health of the people who work at or visit the building.
 

Skyward

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You may need to reframe them in terms of a higher purpose, in order to see how they're in line with your values. For example, a janitor could reframe his job from the task of cleaning objects to the purpose of protecting the aesthetic sense and physical health of the people who work at or visit the building.

This is Ni's definition: Viewing the object from different perspectives.

I've been wondering about INTJs Fi, since it seems more common for INFJs to have a developed Ti, I being one of them.
 

poppy

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Alright Uytuun, I'm trying to think back, because I think I went through something very similar about a year ago, during what was easily the most difficult stage of my life so far (not because of developing Fi, but some life events).

During and after the events, I developed a sort of sensitivity to others that I had never experienced. I used to always be short and terse and very Te driven, suddenly there was this new squishy aspect of me to be dealt with. There was this part of me that couldn't stand the institutions around me, I found them morally objectionable and stopped making any effort to participate in them, knowing full well that it was going to be to the detriment of my previous goals. For instance, I had wanted to be an engineer, until the point when I realized I could not operate in high school and I basically stopped doing any more work than I had to. I got so behind in math that I ended up dropping the class.

I never tried to fight its development. It took me about a year, but I sort of evened-out. At the moment I don't have any Te goals, but I'm able to operate in a relatively self assured manner, and Fi hums away in the background letting me know when I'm being an asshole, or when something is really not as important as people try to tell me it is. I can still bulldoze my way through things when I need to.

Also---the ballet thing. Very good idea. Learning something new is a good way to bring up your confidence. I ended up getting my first summer job, which was extremely helpful. It made me feel competent again, even though it required almost no Te (or perhaps because it didn't?).

:hug:

(also, sorry if this post has any glaringly weird typos, I've been having a hard time concentrating today)
 

Southern Kross

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For the first problem, I suggest slightly intellectualizing your feelings by explicitly satisfying their purpose, which is to deliver a message from your subconscious about your perception of how your circumstances are impacting one or more of your universal human needs. (For example, anger is a signal of a perceived boundary violation.) At least for me, once I step back, identify the need involved, and validate it to myself, then it's easier for me to move on to questioning whether my perception is correct (and if so, brainstorming a response).
:yes:

This is a great explaination of what I do (I could never manage to explain this so consisely and coherently on my own though). This is fantastic advice about how to deal with what Fi puts you through. Know what you are feeling and why you are feeling it - bring it back to the rational sphere and take it apart. When you understand your feelings and behaviour you can work out how to counter them, control them or direct them to where you want them to go. This may require going into some dark shit and accepting some hard truths but it leads to enlightenment. IMO the main reason people struggle with their external emotions is due to their failure explore them internally - do the raw feeling on the inside so you can present a more edited version to the world.

This works for me (usually). Not sure if other Fis agree.
 

Quinlan

Intriguing....
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Fi sucks, beat it with sticks.
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
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I had a stage back when I was younger--second year university and again in honours year--lots of emo worries and refusal to work--and these days I look back on it and say, "I wish to hell I'd known I didn't have to be INTP." Big time NTP environment, my school, not a recognisable J in sight. I look back now and recognise that as an INTJ I wasn't very good at being an INTP, and the kind of work I was obliging myself to do wasn't what I was good at. I could do it, but it was a chore that never ended, and while I didn't know this as an actionable statement I knew it as a feeling: the work wasn't going to go anywhere I would be especially proud of. I criticised myself a lot back then, and equally wanted to escape, but didn't know how.

Not that every INTJ is cursed to try and be INTP. That's just what I was doing back in my school as the 80s turned into the 90s.
 

runvardh

にゃん
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Hmm, I just worked out what treats to put out in front of it and how to place them to get something done. I'm still slow, but I'm more effective now than I was years ago. I'm currently in the middle of an Si trap of risking very little while dealing with an impending life direction change that is driving me crazy waiting for. Fun fun fun stuff...
 
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