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[ENFP] The ENFP Te Demand

Wonkavision

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my impressions of Te are that it actually does more to check Fi.

For you, if you're an INFJ, that might be possible. I'm not sure.

But for an ENFP, whose Fi is Secondary and whose Te is Tertiary, it would not be wise or desirable in any way for Te to check Fi.

For an ENFP, it would be a disaster if Te were equal or stronger than Fi.
 

SciVo

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On further reading and reflection, I think that my Si is my tertiary temptation, even though my Ni is actually my third strongest. My Si is the opposite function of my secondary, in the dominant orientation, and so it's what my Fi turns to for support against my Ne. (My Ne and Ni are a tag team and there's no turning them against each other.) Also, I doubt that my Si's weakness makes much difference (pro or con) when using it as a crutch in a situation that demands E, since the problem is that it's inappropriate.
 

sculpting

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For you, if you're an INFJ, that might be possible. I'm not sure.

But for an ENFP, whose Fi is Secondary and whose Te is Tertiary, it would not be wise or desirable in any way for Te to check Fi.

For an ENFP, it would be a disaster if Te were equal or stronger than Fi.

Hmmm,

I most surely use Te as much as Fi. When I went through the function tests I did not understand some of the basics of Fi-what were my values, what I would I die for. I was very strong at the advanced aspects0-understanding others emotions without knowing why, fighting for my ideals. I can much more easily understand principals, black and white rules and logic. Fi is there but it is hazy and murky. The Te stuff was more normal progression-I understood the simple stuff really well and the advanced stuff was not so well.

Fi is like a really deep river that flows underneath. It gives me an overall orientation but i dont tap into it much. However what this means is that when I allow myself to feel emotions-something i have only done in the last six months-I get overwhelmed by them. I am not certain how to "process" them productively and can emo bomb at times.
 

the state i am in

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aux compensates for dom. ter compensates for aux. develops more complexity and brings more nuanced understandings that create better balance.

it will never have the real-estate that Fi has for you, nor provide a functional force as powerful as what Fi does for you. but it helps you from overdoing the Fi, by coming at extraversion from a much much much different direction. and provides you a different context to evaluate worth, consistency, fusing personal and global values, etc.
 

Wonkavision

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The answer to this is all really simple.

Each individual must do two things in order to be effective:

1. Figure out what is important to them INTERNALLY(what their principles, or ethics, or morals, or values are--whichever term applies best. )

2. Be aware of what's going on around them, EXTERNALLY.



Each type has a Dominant and Auxilliary function, which work together to accomplish the two aforementioned goals.

The rest of the functions are fundamentally in competition with the Dominant and Auxilliary, pulling you in the direction of your opposite type, so they must be kept in check.


If you are successful, the credit goes to your Dominant and Auxilliary working together smoothly, NOT to your weaker functions.


You don't have to aspire to be more like another type.

Just maximize your strengths and keep your weaknesses in check.

Strengthening your weaker functions to the level of your stronger functions amounts to self-sabotage.

If it's even possible to do that, then you do it at your own risk.
 

Wonkavision

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On further reading and reflection, I think that my Si is my tertiary temptation, even though my Ni is actually my third strongest. My Si is the opposite function of my secondary, in the dominant orientation, and so it's what my Fi turns to for support against my Ne. (My Ne and Ni are a tag team and there's no turning them against each other.) Also, I doubt that my Si's weakness makes much difference (pro or con) when using it as a crutch in a situation that demands E, since the problem is that it's inappropriate.

Yeah.

It's not only the Tertiary which can sabotage the Top functions.

The other inferior functions can wreak havoc as well.

It can be temporary, or one can be in the grip of inferior functions for long stretches of time--even for years.


I have a great book on the subject, called Was That Really Me?, by Naomi L. Quenk.
 

Wonkavision

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Fi is like a really deep river that flows underneath. It gives me an overall orientation but i dont tap into it much. However what this means is that when I allow myself to feel emotions-something i have only done in the last six months-I get overwhelmed by them. I am not certain how to "process" them productively and can emo bomb at times.

I'm not sure what your type is.

Is it ENFP?

If your type is ENFP, then you just gave a perfect example of why you should develop Fi.

By not "tapping" into the "Fi river", you are overwhelmed by your emotions.

Fi is a rational function, and would enable you to process your emotions and use them productively.

You are "emo bombing" when your Ne and Fi are not working together to keep the other functions in check.


Of course, if you're not ENFP, then there would be a different set of functions involved, but it would follow the same principle.

It would be a case of inferior functions gaining too much control, due to an underdeveloped or compromised Auxilliary.

Regardless of type, people succeed when they balance their Dominant with their Auxilliary, and they get off track when their weaker functions interfere.
 

sculpting

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I dont really buy into the "types" as much as the functions. I think they may have a likely order however I dont think it is as nearly as concrete as you make out. The above is a specific instance, an area I am working on, but honestly, I do okay even though I appear to be a typological misfit.

I actually learn a lot by watching other enfps. We have a problem as we will have others repeatedly try and present information that conflicts with our thought, yet we will disregard them and then keep repeating ourself in circles.

My entp friend laughs and says just because I repeat myself, that doesnt make me right.

I appear to be typeless. haha.

I wonder if that is as effective as being topless at seducing INTPs. Alas I shall never know.

off to drink more wine.
 

ergophobe

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What kind of ENFP consciously wants to take over the world?

Not me.

You are not all ENFPs, I don't remember voting to make you representative. I'd happily take over the world - there's a bunch of people in charge in a few particular countries that I'd really like to get rid off. This will generally lead to better outcomes for everyone. :smile:


I think healthy ENFP idealism would be driven by Dominant Ne/Auxilliary Fi -- motivating, encouraging, and inspiring people to see the possibilities of human progress.

Sure.

It wouldn't be run by Dominant Ne/Tertiary Te -- coercing and manipulating people and systems in order to ensure that humans progress.

I fail to understand how the above is incompatible with good Te and why Ne/Te leads to coercion/manipulation necessarily. The normative statements are yours. Inspiring/coercing are two sides of the same coin. Inspiring implies the use of motivational force and coercion the use of disincentives. Ne/Fi is not necessarily inspiring and Ne/Te is not necessarily coercive. This is pure conjecture on your part. Either can be used to convince people of the importance of your goals.

Fi is geared towards evaluating what's important for oneself, Te is geared towards the outside world - in organizing thought and structures. This implies Fi and Te are both important functions and should BOTH be developed well for a healthy, functioning ENFP. I'll start with first problematizing why just Ne/Fi with a weak Te wouldn't be a good outcome and then argue about them both being important for different spheres of activity.

An ENFP with a strong Fi but weak Te:
Would look incredibly selfish because personal values while deceptively resembling principles, they are not the same. What stops Fi from manipulating people to do their will? Fi reflects an individual's hierarchy of outcomes - this may not reflect what's best for the common good or even for other people immediately surrounding the Fi user. Don't you need well developed Fe here to consider other people's well-being/feelings? Indeed. Well developed Te helps keep selfish Fi in check too. Te helps organize our thought process and decision making in a way where we are able to apply broader principles of what is ethical or unethical not just (values) what we believe to be important based on personal ethics. The latter could go horribly wrong and is not a completely reliable compass. Te is pretty important because even in the realm of the personal, dispassionate thought is important in decision making that affects other people. How do we do this without good Te?


Any ENFP who thinks they are using Te really effectively should ask someone they trust to give their honest opinion.

I think it's always a good idea to get the opinions of well trusted friends. However, this is more a projection of your experience than a truism you apply to all ENFPs. YOU may have used Te ineffectively and found that you work better with Fi in charge - that's fine but to extrapolate from that to every other ENFP's experience is strange. At the end of the day, the idea of you trusting other people's opinions over your own sense of what is right and wrong reflects weak Fi, in my opinion.

The trusted friend will probably say it isn't working as well as the ENFP thinks it is.

Thanks for the mindreading.

Besides, if you are making good decisions and working well with others, that is your Ne and Fi working well together.

Why would you credit Te with that????

See above. Little evidence to only credit Ne/Fi with good decision making besides your own personal experience. I can understand the reasoning behind developing Fi to keep Ne in check. It's an important function for ENFPs and that makes sense. However, the extension to keeping the other functions weaker is on very shaky ground.


I guess I am confused as other personality types are driven to positions of power for various reasons.


So why is an ENFP working to move into a position scary? We have goals we would like to see realized...we need to be someplace where we can effectively accomplish them.

Thank you. I also get what you are saying - it's not literally about taking over the world, it's about having a function that actually helps in the workplace, particularly when we may be in positions of authority. Being in such a position implies more than ever that we be fair and consistent in our decision making. This implies the use of principles in a largely dispassionate manner. There are always exceptions but the best people in these positions, in my opinion, are empathetic (Fe) but equally to everyone and know how stick with a set of dispassionate rules of behavior (Te) -- shouldn't ENFPS aspire to develop these functions or should we not aspire to positions of authority at all??

I have asked on several threads about is using our innate talents or what we learn to influence others "evil" or manipulative? I never really get a clear answer. Many other types besides ENFPs do this innately-so why is it wrong for an enfp to do this?

Monster - I think you and I are referring to the same question. Why is Fi driven influence inspirational whereas Te driven manipulative? Either could be selfish in its goals.

Ne/Fi are best helped by good Fe in the interpersonal realm and Ne/Fi are best helped by Te in the professional realm. With only Ne/Fi doing the leading, I imagine a person who is convinced of their personal value system without basis in a logical argument or consideration of broader ethical principles. The former will find it easy to excuse all sorts of unethical behavior because of a weak understanding of the consequences of one's actions on other people. The latter, in the workplace, would be apt to make decisions based on an individual value system and a very personalized perception of the world around them, thus leading to unfair and inconsistent decision making in the workplace. Rather disastrous.

Some healthy ENFPs have better developed Te than Fi. I relate to this and know my choice of profession influenced this. Some have better developed Fi than Te. Fi is being connected with one's own feelings and most useful in organizing one's own goals. I can see how not being well connected with Fi can be harmful just as having weakly developed Te can be harmful. This is one of many factors that makes us a varied group of people within a type. This does not necessarily imply a healthy or unhealthy person.
 

Erudur

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I always try to be pretty thorough before jumping into a developed thread...but I skimmed about the preceding half...so apologies if I am missing some info already covered.

Wonka - I think your thesis works pretty well when working on the assumption that tertiary function is working in phychosis. But I feel I have an ENFP friend who uses Te in a pretty healthy way, and I think I am able to use Fi in a pretty healthy way...that is, I use Fi to function as a moral compass for my Ni/Te constructs.

Just because I come up with a perceived order of the universe that functions efficiently and makes sense to me, if it violates a moral law higher than myself, it must be rejected or modified (that higher law may not make sense to me). Fi also informs me that a person/people who may not do things efficiently or logically may be the "best" person for the job because they are on the "right" side or are "called" to that position of authority.

I also see instances where my Fi emotional outburst can be counterproductive or crippling (that tertiary awkwardness), but I still find Fi a positive balance to my Ni/Te, in general. Contrary to your thesis, I find it very helpful to work on developing my tertiary Fi--or at least give it a place of honor in my toolbox.
 

Quiet Fire

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'Simple, practical point, Doc Wonka... I've enjoyed trying to learn to use Te more effectively (real challenge for me.. I don't even seem to be able to access it as auxiliary or tertiary sometimes!) - and to tap dance (Si) - and consider development of my stronger functions over time to include an integration of the others. It took a long time to see/comfortably accept my dominant functions as my special gifts.. but would think it a narrow and boring life to focus on them.. to the exclusion of the others..
 

Wonkavision

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Ergophobe--

You're right that this is all pure conjecture.

I never intended for it to sound like a definitive statement.

But I'm not exactly just pulling it out of my ass, either.

It's based on my study of some good, existing theories, not something entirely created by me.

I often cite references, and I try to make it clear that it's all theoretical, but I don't want to put a disclaimer on every post.


I don't expect you to read all of my posts in this thread, but I think if you read more of them, you would see where I'm coming from.

You might still disagree with me, but you would probably have a clearer idea of what I'm getting at.
 

ergophobe

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But I'm not exactly just pulling it out of my ass, either.

It's based on my study of some good, existing theories, not something entirely created by me.

I often cite references, and I try to make it clear that it's all theoretical, but I don't want to put a disclaimer on every post.


I don't expect you to read all of my posts in this thread, but I think if you read more of them, you would see where I'm coming from.

You might still disagree with me, but you would probably have a clearer idea of what I'm getting at.

Please feel free to comment/respond to the criticism of your statements with the like. I look forward to hearing where I may have misunderstood your statements quoted above or missed something you said.

Could you respond to the criticism of the statements with better evidence/more compelling arguments? I'd like to understand these well founded arguments, as you contend, better.
 

Kalach

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A propos of no one's post in particular and everyone's:

Te for manipulating people? Te's crap for that. It views people as objects within a non-personal system, surely. Te more properly moves the environment around the people, taking the people as semi-fixed points. Obviously it isn't as simple as that--like yesterday when I was making timetable arrangements and I asked a guy, "You're sure you don't want to go up from 14 hours to 18?"--however it sort of is as simple as that if there's strong Fi overseeing the program, the people don't get pushed too far.

Te will try to jolly people along, but the goal is some external impersonal thing: good timetables, effective mechanical processes, impersonal productivity.

Sez an INTJ.

And he goes on to hypothesize:

In an ENFP, Te is presumably still about instantiation of personless goals, but perhaps with a far bigger emphasis on the person as the basic point to be respected, around which the personless goals will rotate.

The wrinkle in this system is the Te is tertiary, less conscious, more reactive, tending toward the childishly cranky or delighted. So you get The Champion. The simplicity of beliefs like "the world will be changed to attend to the interests of these particular mishandled and downtrodden persons I found!" sounds like a Tertiary Te Demand.

But that's archetypes. On the large stage, the simplicity makes The Champion. On the smaller stage, in daily life, at work, meeting people who aren't downtrodden so much... beats me, I don't know enough ENFPs that well.
 

ergophobe

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A propos of no one's post in particular and everyone's:

Te for manipulating people? Te's crap for that. It views people as objects within a non-personal system, surely. Te more properly moves the environment around the people, taking the people as semi-fixed points. Obviously it isn't as simple as that--like yesterday when I was making timetable arrangements and I asked a guy, "You're sure you don't want to go up from 14 hours to 18?"--however it sort of is as simple as that if there's strong Fi overseeing the program, the people don't get pushed too far.

Te will try to jolly people along, but the goal is some external impersonal thing: good timetables, effective mechanical processes, impersonal productivity.

Good explanation and example - it really is basically organizational skills applied to the external environment. Of course, as you implied, Te is more complex in that it uses logical skills to break down, understand complex structures and ideas and then organizes them in the most efficient way possible. This is the dispassionate approach needed for ENFPs in many areas of our lives.


Sez an INTJ.

And he goes on to hypothesize:

In an ENFP, Te is presumably still about instantiation of personless goals, but perhaps with a far bigger emphasis on the person as the basic point to be respected, around which the personless goals will rotate.

The wrinkle in this system is the Te is tertiary, less conscious, more reactive, tending toward the childishly cranky or delighted. So you get The Champion. The simplicity of beliefs like "the world will be changed to attend to the interests of these particular mishandled and downtrodden persons I found!" sounds like a Tertiary Te Demand.

But that's archetypes. On the large stage, the simplicity makes The Champion. On the smaller stage, in daily life, at work, meeting people who aren't downtrodden so much... beats me, I don't know enough ENFPs that well.

I think this is pretty simplistic. It may be accurate in terms of an immature ENFP where the tertiary function is really underdeveloped. This rings less true for those of us who have been honing these skills personally and professionally for over a decade and our jobs/homes being efficiently run depend precisely on these skills. Sure, Fi prioritizes where Te should be used. When this is done, Te can be effectively used for Fi's purposes. Having said that Fi isn't just used for a social cause, it may very well direct the person towards other goals such as having a well kept home or in achieving the goals of the organization we work for, assuming organizational and personal goals are aligned. Te is used efficiently for all of these.

I also find, personally, I switch to Te mode completely at work sometimes in understanding an intellectual argument made. In stereotypical Te mode, I'll be the one pointing out that a person missed a logical link in their argument or missed a point they said they were going to cover. These are important skills for my job as I would imagine for many others, so we develop these skills accordingly - both as a function of interest and necessity.

Where it causes problems and is somewhat less developed in the sense of using complementary functions together is the interpersonal realm. I find I surprise people when I switch from my empathetic Fe/Fi mode to the Te/Ti mode in debate at a personal level. My friends who have not witnessed that before are somewhat surprised. I'll do this more when it's a subject I really care about, in the interest of making the best possible argument and doing so dispassionately (hence Fi must be switched off after the decision to engage has been made). I've been asked (rarely but it does happen) if I'm okay/mad at the person when actually none of this is true at all. Most often, I'm just enjoying the intellectual debate and do this with someone who I gauge can handle it. It's surprising for some though because the warm, fuzzy humorous side gets squashed for the purpose of debate. When I have better developed accompanying Fe skills - I think I will truly be a better debate partner.
 

Kalach

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A word on using Te:

IMHO the only people who use it straight up, right off the bat are EXTJs. For me, when I consciously use Te, it's as a workhorse for Ni. The intuition comes first and then Te builds a case. Of course, it not at all as simple as that because my intuition--to use a shorthand expression--"knows" it is producing stuff that Te will go to work on. In that sense my Ni is unlike INFJ Ni: the focus is different. So I'd say in general it's misleading to speak of using Te as if it works in isolation. In ENFPs I'd be guessing that Ne does whole a lot of the "using Te" work. Exactly what that means, I don't know, for I don't have a good conception of what Ne is for the user.

A word on using off-reservation functions:

There's a reason they're called shadow functions, and a reason they tend to have pejorative titles like opposing, critical parent, deceiver, devil. It's a model-theoretic reason, but still a reason: the shadow functions do things that our normal preferences can't, so they're deployed when we're not doing what we like best. They're used for stuff we'd rather not do!

That's why I like the idea of saying we don't actually use the shadows that much. For cognitive comfort if we can get away with using our preferred functions to mimic the shadows, or produce an effect that satisfied the situation anyway, then we'd do that before we walked on the dark side of the street.

I don't know if there's a real distinction to be made between using, say, Fe and using Ne/Fi/Te to mimic Fe, but it seems to make more sense than saying, O hai, I'm a big time Fi person, but I'll toss that aside for the moment and love you up Fe stylee.

A word on the When ENFPs Change Gears:

Yep, I've seen that, the switch from fluffy Ne/Fi to hardstyle Ne/Te processing. It is disorienting when you're not ready for it, suddenly you're talking to someone a lot smarter than you'd figured.

Soooo, what's up with that? The Te was there all along but you were letting it simmer in the background?

There's something to that, the idea that the Te was there all along.

Sitting there in the background, it was. But...

What was it really up to?


:angry:
 

sculpting

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I also find, personally, I switch to Te mode completely at work sometimes in understanding an intellectual argument made. In stereotypical Te mode, I'll be the one pointing out that a person missed a logical link in their argument or missed a point they said they were going to cover. These are important skills for my job as I would imagine for many others, so we develop these skills accordingly - both as a function of interest and necessity. .

yes. NeTe working together reminds me of a "lump detector" for lack of a better term. Ne allows me to scan the problem space and look at all the possibilities and how they connect. Then I use Te to look for lumps and logical inconsistancies in that matrix. I can analyze a fairly complex problem from 10,000 feet and identify where the issue-the lump-is. I am much better at this than my NTP collegues. In gard school-biophysics-my INTP advsior said that was the one thing I excelled at-taking a very complex problem and finding the tiny tendril that was inconsistant-troubleshooting. At this point however I may need to call in a Ti user to identify a better solution-it depends on the problem.

If I may be so arrogant-I am one hell of a troubleshooter. I excel here. Also excel at listening to discussions made between two others-and again using structural shifts-recognizing when one person has misunderstood and the "flow", the metastructure of the conversation has gone off track. This is Te, potentially supporting NeFi observations.

ENFPs are well known for picking up on tense/language changes in print or verbal/nonverbal communication. I think this is Te again-it sense a change in the "meta structure" of the situation. (This can be for the better or worse-especially if we then Ne into the situation things that are incorrect). For me these "changes" are as obvious as listening to music and recognizing someone is horribly off key. I cant not notice them. They are discordant.

Where it causes problems and is somewhat less developed in the sense of using complementary functions together is the interpersonal realm. I find I surprise people when I switch from my empathetic Fe/Fi mode to the Te/Ti mode in debate at a personal level. My friends who have not witnessed that before are somewhat surprised. I'll do this more when it's a subject I really care about, in the interest of making the best possible argument and doing so dispassionately (hence Fi must be switched off after the decision to engage has been made). I've been asked (rarely but it does happen) if I'm okay/mad at the person when actually none of this is true at all. Most often, I'm just enjoying the intellectual debate and do this with someone who I gauge can handle it. It's surprising for some though because the warm, fuzzy humorous side gets squashed for the purpose of debate. When I have better developed accompanying Fe skills - I think I will truly be a better debate partner.

I totally recognize this-I posted a few thoughts on a thread in entp land last week about this. Many enfps I see seem to have this jarred transition. We are not masking or hiding what we mean via Fe in any way, so we just flip from Fi to Te. It can make us seem very sweet, very fluffy, then wham, bitch. The men have an easier time than girls-societal I think. I have found lately I do better if I just wear a Te mask more consistantly. Then there is no expectation of kindness. However I have a VP and several upper level managers in strategic marketing that are ENFPs and do exactly this-it may give them an edge-the unpredictability.

And Te can be brutal yet fun in a debate. Ti in entps has a cutting witty precision, Te just punches you straight in the nose-blunt style :)

I have been observing how I interact with my ENTPs-It is almost all NeTe with little whisps of Fi that leak out now and then. We dont talk about feelings, emotion, or any of that stuff. We argue a lot and then I insult them and make fun of them. They seem to like it.

Thanks for the perspective ergo.
 

sculpting

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[ In ENFPs I'd be guessing that Ne does whole a lot of the "using Te" work. Exactly what that means, I don't know, for I don't have a good conception of what Ne is for the user.:

Like flying over a web like net. You actually often stop "thinking" and let it connect for a few seconds. Stuff bubbles up out of the murk-with no Te or Ti, it can be crazy ass random-see the words in my signature-they just bubble and connect to each other. I dont know why.

A word on the When ENFPs Change Gears:

Yep, I've seen that, the switch from fluffy Ne/Fi to hardstyle Ne/Te processing. It is disorienting when you're not ready for it, suddenly you're talking to someone a lot smarter than you'd figured.

Soooo, what's up with that? The Te was there all along but you were letting it simmer in the background?

There's something to that, the idea that the Te was there all along.

Sitting there in the background, it was. But...

What was it really up to?


:angry:

For me Te is more present than Fi. You may notice Fi more on the surface but Te always sits underneath. It is kind of harsh, cold, pragmatic, reserved, judging.... I sort of understand when the ENTPs describe Fe as being a bit capricious in how they make short term emo connections-sometimes I use Fi that way-Underneath I am detached but on the surface I can seem warm and affectionate. I think I am bit broken here though :)
 

BlueScreen

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A word on the When ENFPs Change Gears:

Yep, I've seen that, the switch from fluffy Ne/Fi to hardstyle Ne/Te processing. It is disorienting when you're not ready for it, suddenly you're talking to someone a lot smarter than you'd figured.

Soooo, what's up with that? The Te was there all along but you were letting it simmer in the background?

There's something to that, the idea that the Te was there all along.

Sitting there in the background, it was. But...

What was it really up to?


:angry:

We perceive the external world with Ne. We judge it with Te. We judge the internal world with Fi. The result, in a way, ends up being that things come out clearer if I don't stop and think carefully, than if I do. At work, I work in bursts. I get stuck for a while and find it quite tiring, then go through things at a rate that would scare the crap out of any careful thinking type. Then I lose the train of thought and am stuck again.

I think the big difference from thinking types is I'm less framework based and more perception based. I work with the real world things, and describe things by seeing what is most important in the real world things. Ne Ti works by judging the stuff modelled in your head from external perceptions, Ni Te works by judging the stuff you see externally from complex internal perceptions, Ne Te works by judging the external things from the external perceptions. There isn't an internal pondering or modelling process, there isn't really the terminology or playing around with systems in your head. When I play with an idea, I play perceptually still. I try to see it. When the perception becomes clear, then I can describe it clearly for someone else to see it (ie. what you are really looking at is this, this and this. If you approach it this way, and look at it this way, etc. It stays in the perceptual domain, and I know it as a system of objects, not a group of concepts or definitions.). As time goes on I see improved versions of it (it looks better like this, because that is redundant, why was it there in the first place?, etc.).

I'm guessing in the same way ENTPs are quite Ne Fe, probably why they are such good lawyers, champions of justice, campaigners for causes. Ne-Monster actually discussed this a while ago. We must use our tertiaries more, because you can see the difference clearly between the introverted and extroverted types. Compare an ISFP with an ESFP. You can't say all the mad genius comes from putting the Fi first. And you can't say the leadership part comes from putting the Se first. With ISFPs, the Se Ni combo is crazily good, and you see this similarity in the ISTP. Actually ISFPs are perceptually scary, especially as they get a bit older. They see the detail, and they know the answer. They're spatially incredible, which is part of them being such good artists. Moving on, the INTJs' Fi clearly divides them from ENTJs, just look at any going into or coming out of a relationship, and the ENTPs' Fe puts them worlds away from INTPs when it comes to social protocol. I notice pretty clearly my annoyance with INFPs at work also, because they don't optimise, but I also see their strength in reading through things and collecting information, which is my weak area.

There is a downside to working in Ne Te for weeks on end though, and it is that I feel I'm losing myself or am not me. It must require some amount of Fi squashing to stay in it every day at work for weeks. Something at the core doesn't get fulfilled.
 

Erudur

New member
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
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190
MBTI Type
INTJ
...I also find, personally, I switch to Te mode completely at work sometimes in understanding an intellectual argument made. In stereotypical Te mode, I'll be the one pointing out that a person missed a logical link in their argument or missed a point they said they were going to cover. These are important skills for my job as I would imagine for many others, so we develop these skills accordingly - both as a function of interest and necessity...

Erg, you are another one of my favorite kind of "ENfP"s. I have great debates/discussions with your kind.
 
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