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[INFJ] INFJ Grudges? * help please :( *

Misty_Mountain_Rose

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My sister tests as an INFJ, and it seems to fit... but the thing that frustrates me when I try to learn about this type is that I only seem to get things like:

- We're mysterious
- We're private
- We're self-conscious

... and that's it.

I'm trying to understand my sisters ability to hold a grudge... for years. She can stay really and truly angry about something that happened months and months ago if she feels like she was slighted by someone who didn't take her feelings into consideration.

Example:

My mothers husband passed away 8 months ago. They'd been together 20 years, and people suspected that my sister was truly this man's daughter, and not my Father's daughter. It was not until he was ill in the hospital (and he did not recover but passed away within a few days) that DNA tests were done and it was proven that he was her father.

She's been blocking everyone out from the internal hurt she's dealing with from not ever finding out sooner so she could have known her father truly as 'Dad'. Her only repeated comment to us when she found out for sure was "... MY parents WEREN'T divorced..."

The week before Fathers day, my Mom came to TN from NY to stay with me for a few days because she needed an escape from the house. While she was here, she texted back and forth with my sister(s) like always, and told this INFJ sister that she'd probably come back on X day (which was the day after Fathers day, but neither myself or my Mom really thought about it as being 'The day AFTER Fathers day'). My sister sent back a smiley text saying OK! Have fun! and then regaled our mother when she got home because she wasn't there for her on Fathers day.

She is still angry with my Mother about this.

In my mind, I understand that she needed Mom to be there, but there has been a kind of recurring 'guilt trip' that she's been laying on Mom since the funeral. With everything Mom does to try to move on or live her life, my sister lashes out at her... which is new because her and Mom have always been very, very close. (Mom is ISFJ) Mom apologized and acknowledged that it didn't occur to her (in her own grief) that my sister would need her there, but months have passed and she still hangs on to it as if it happened yesterday.

This is an extreme example (and possibly even justifiable) but her normal behaviour, even in circumstances that aren't so serious, is to hang on to these feelings of injustice or anger as if her own identity depends on it. She jumps to immediate conclusions (VERY F based conclusions) and refuses to consider another side of the story. Its as if she believes that by acknowledging that there are other factors diminishes her feelings or reduces them? Its difficult for me to understand, and sometimes my patience runs thin with her. I want to shake her by the shoulders and tell her to listen to herself sometimes. Its beyond stubborn... beyond a refusal to negotiate. The snap judgement that she makes will be with her seemingly forever... and with the same intensity.

Is this typical for INFJs?? Do you hold grudges? Are you able to look at other peoples' sides of things and think objectively or do you get bogged down in the initial impression?

I'm not sure how to help her through the ordeal with her father because she won't let anyone in... but sometimes I'm afraid to talk to her because she gets so angry so quickly... so defensive. (She's always been like that). If there is anyone in our family who would not speak to someone for 20 years over a small argument, it would be her.

Thoughts?
 

Lux

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This is an extreme example (and possibly even justifiable) but her normal behaviour, even in circumstances that aren't so serious, is to hang on to these feelings of injustice or anger as if her own identity depends on it

I don't think is common on the INFJ personality. I'm not like that at all. I will say I remember everything hurtful but I don't hold grudges over the hurt if I can tell the person in question is truly sorry.

She jumps to immediate conclusions (VERY F based conclusions) and refuses to consider another side of the story.

No again. With me if nothing else I think of every perspective until it makes me crazy.

Is this typical for INFJs?? Do you hold grudges? Are you able to look at other peoples' sides of things and think objectively or do you get bogged down in the initial impression?

Same answer as above.

I'm not sure how to help her through the ordeal with her father because she won't let anyone in... but sometimes I'm afraid to talk to her because she gets so angry so quickly... so defensive. (She's always been like that). If there is anyone in our family who would not speak to someone for 20 years over a small argument, it would be her.

I don't this doesn't sound like me at all. Everyone is different, do you know for sure she's an INFJ? Not that we can't be like that but it's very different from myself and I have dealt with difficult family issues in my life.
 

Lauren Ashley

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Did Mom ever tell her why there wasn't a paternity test until he was on his deathbed? Did Mom know that he was the father?

As for holding grudges, no I don't do that even though I may still feel hurt years later. However, I will cross people out of my life which appears to some that I am holding a grudge when it is really just that I see no point in having these people in my life.
 

Wyst

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If she is an INFJ, she's a an extremely underdeveloped INFJ. The fits of anger don't match with any INFJs I know, myself included.

Yes, INFJs do get angry but that will get bottled up and will only be leak out in a meltdown of some kind - which doesn't sound like what you're talking about at all.

Anger can, however, be used as a cover up. A way to sabotage a discussion that an INFJ wants to avoid or cut short. Earlier in your original post, you mentioned:

She's been blocking everyone out from the internal hurt she's dealing with...

My guess is that this is the main root. Everything that has come up since has just been a branches coming off the main root accentuating her pain from not being able to know her father as 'Dad'. And the whole text business surrounding Father's Day couldn't have helped much.

So perhaps she's deflecting. Rather than having a conversation about her pain she's taking up offenses where there really is none. As long as she decides to be angry about something/at someone, it will help empower her from having to deal with the pain under the surface.

I'm just laying her situation over my life and interpreting how I would have reacted - but I could be way off from what's actually going on.
 

rushig

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Oki where do I start. I can understand where this is coming from. coz I personally still hold a grudge against my mother who manupilated a situation big time and broke off my relationship which she later regreted and applogised but it was kinda too late ( long story which is hard to explain over a thread coz it involves aspects to Sri Lankan (asian) cultural aspects etc.

Anyway at least for me the grudge and anger doesn't come from the actual incident but the fact that the closest person to you in life hid/lied something from you/ intentionally manipulated a situation etc. (coz INFJ don't necessarily reveal all of their emotions to many, only a very few trusted and by this I mean VERY few. In my case I've only ever trusted my mother (ISFP) to tell basically everything and anything. Anyone else I would screen the info. About my anger, I don't get angry very much, but if something really big happens that anger which comes though extreme hurt would be with me. BUt in my situ Ive learned to control it and let go and have only occasionally lashed at her. ( but unfortunately it has stuck with me, the hurt not anger of her manipulation) But I try even to get rid of that..

As for helping her, I think it's best letting her deal with it her self. Having an INTJ brother my self I know this moodiness irritates you, but unless you side with her and then diplomatically try to make her understand your mothers perspective/ reasons I would discourage you getting caught to a storm!
Try to take a 'feeling' approach logical reasoning would not help as she's probably feeling betrayed.

I don't know the strength of your INTJ preferences but it may help chatting or something that apporaching this in a verbal way ( both INTJ/ INFJ don't like verbalising their emotions too much so this might be a better approach)

Anyways behind the anger and hurt remember that INFJ loves their family and however she may be acting up she loves her family dearly
 

Misty_Mountain_Rose

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Did Mom ever tell her why there wasn't a paternity test until he was on his deathbed? Did Mom know that he was the father?

As for holding grudges, no I don't do that even though I may still feel hurt years later. However, I will cross people out of my life which appears to some that I am holding a grudge when it is really just that I see no point in having these people in my life.

The details are long and confusing, but suffice it to say that all of us girls knew from a young age that it was possible that she was his daughter. Not wanting to create hard-feelings amongst us, my Mother and her father never pushed the issue. As she grew older, they had more talks about it, and they revealed that it was 'more than likely' that she was his daughter. They talked about having DNA testing done a lot in the year before he passed away, but never did it. My sister was afraid of how the rest of us would feel about finding out for SURE that she was in fact our half-sister. Even though the test was given while he was alive, he passed away before she got the results... which has to be hard. A very bittersweet kind of ordeal for her to realize that she had both of her parents in her life as a real family for 20 years but never actually KNEW it for a fact.

Current situation aside though, she's always been very... explosive? She isn't violent or anything of the sort, but her reactions to things she doesn't want to hear or doesn't agree with are VERY strong and very abrupt. She'll cut you off and refuse to listen to anything else once she reaches that point... and it seems to come quickly with almost no provocation.

However it might sound, the love amongst us is very strong. We are all there for each other and care about the others very much... but dealing with these stubborn denials of opinions different from her own, and the subsequent grudge that ensues from it is difficult to swallow for me. Like I said above, I've almost resorted to not discussing anything of any importance with her for fear that if I say the wrong thing she'll write me out of her life.

(And lets face it, INTJ isn't the most subtle of creatures and I inadvertently hurt feelings sometimes like a bull in a china shop)
 

Jae Rae

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Look at it this way - all of you now know that she's really your half-sister. She's having an identity crisis on top of grieving for her father. Perhaps it really was better for you all not to know for sure, but she's probably thinking the test wasn't done because of embarrassment, i.e., other people's feelings were considered over hers. And her father, at whom she could have been angry for not coming forward for 20 years, is now dead, so she's giving your mom a double dose.

You're talking about a major identity/trust issue, not being stood up for a coffee date. It's going to take some time. If your mom could write to your sister and explain her feelings, that might help. It also would help if she emphasized that she loves your sister and knows it's going to take time for her to get used to the facts in the situation.

Your sister is grieving about a profound piece of her life. Has therapy been considered?
 

substitute

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outrageous to try and say it's not an INFJ thing to hold grudges. just outrageous!

they like, founded and run the national university of grudge holding! srsly!
 

Lauren Ashley

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outrageous to try and say it's not an INFJ thing to hold grudges. just outrageous!

they like, founded and run the national university of grudge holding! srsly!

I knew you'd jump on this thread if you saw it. But your personal experiences with a couple of INFJs is not indicative of all or even most INFJs' behavior. Obviously.
 

Lux

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outrageous to try and say it's not an INFJ thing to hold grudges. just outrageous!

they like, founded and run the national university of grudge holding! srsly!

Really? I can honestly say I don't hold grudges... Although I don't forget the incident(s). I'll forgive someone but I don't forget what happened. A grudge is a persistent feeling of ill will or resentment, so if forgiveness is thrown into the mix it's no longer a grudge.
 

substitute

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people who hold grudges always say they don't. my sister for example, is the queen of grudges, but if asked she always says she doesn't hold them.

I'm not talking about my personal experience with the INFJ's I know alone, Lauren - it's true to type theory, and you even told me yourself the reasons why it is!!
 

substitute

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Ni - looks at patterns in own knowledge from own inner perception and fits present situation into them
Fe - assigns value to something according to how it makes the person/their loved one(s) feel

With that being the case, as you explained to me Lauren Ashley, if you do something the INFJ perceives as wrong because it upsets them, then they can't help but see that as your pattern of behaviour - to hurt people. Whether you meant to hurt them or not is irrelevant, your point of view is irrelevant (you said these things yourself), if the INFJ simply feels that you've hurt them, then as far as they're concerned, you have, and you're a person who hurts people, and they won't want to talk to you or have dealings with you for a long time, if ever again.

That's not me having a grudge, that's type theory and your own words.
 

Wyst

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Your 'grudge-holding' conspiracy theory is, what I've long believed to be a mere front to what's really going on inside an INFJ.

INFJs generally dislike and try to avoid conflict. However it's one the tools in their belt that they will use to sabotage discussions, arguements, and relationships all for escaping the discomfort.

Yes, it sounds a little hypocritical, but when you get down to what really matters to in INFJ in the moment it usually revolves around, "How can I avoid having to address this?"

INFJs are masters of keeping things to themselves. If you your convinced an INFJ has a grudge against you - think again. Chances are they're using the grudge as an excuse for a cover-up about something else - though it may be directly/indirectly related somehow.
 

Lux

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people who hold grudges always say they don't. my sister for example, is the queen of grudges, but if asked she always says she doesn't hold them.

You can be right in your own experience. I think I know myself pretty well and you can take it or leave it but, I still say remembering and forgiving is not the same as holding a grudge. INFJ's, at least the healthy ones are constantly revising what they think of themselves and trying to be better people, grudges cannot be a part of that because it's anti productive.

it's true to type theory, and you even told me yourself the reasons why it is!!

Can you explain the reasons?
 

Lauren Ashley

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Ni - looks at patterns in own knowledge from own inner perception and fits present situation into them
Fe - assigns value to something according to how it makes the person/their loved one(s) feel
You're assuming that a person only uses their top two functions.

With that being the case, as you explained to me Lauren Ashley, if you do something the INFJ perceives as wrong because it upsets them, then they can't help but see that as your pattern of behaviour - to hurt people. Whether you meant to hurt them or not is irrelevant, your point of view is irrelevant (you said these things yourself), if the INFJ simply feels that you've hurt them, then as far as they're concerned, you have, and you're a person who hurts people, and they won't want to talk to you or have dealings with you for a long time, if ever again.
Don't misquote me or quote me out of context. That's not what I said at all. I said if a person establishes a pattern of behavior which is destructive to another person, it is only natural that the person being hurt will want nothing to do with said person. Such thinking is not type specific. Unless you're saying that the other types are masochistic and will just deal with it. And if a person does not want to deal with you, does not mean they hold a grudge. They could have forgiven the person, but they are not going to keep going back to the same thing.

That's not me having a grudge, that's type theory and your own words.
I think it is. It is clear that you hold a grudge against the NFJs for holding a grudge against you, ironically.
 

A Schnitzel

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My sister tests as an INFJ, and it seems to fit... but the thing that frustrates me when I try to learn about this type is that I only seem to get things like:

- We're mysterious
- We're private
- We're self-conscious

Thoughts?

That's the same thing I get from INTJs
 

substitute

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I still say remembering and forgiving is not the same as holding a grudge. INFJ's, at least the healthy ones are constantly revising what they think of themselves and trying to be better people, grudges cannot be a part of that because it's anti productive.

Can you explain the reasons?

I never said remembering was the same as a grudge. I did explain above...

There's a difference between "remembering" and "still not talking to you after years" - most people would call that a grudge ;)

As for the "constant revision" - well, that may well happen in your head, but if the external result is that you still won't go anywhere near that person because it makes you go all emotionally wobbly inside again, so you avoid them and won't talk to them for a very long time, whatever is going on in your head, to the outside world that looks like a grudge :)

Lauren, I'm not even gonna deal with you LOL you're impossible!
 

Lauren Ashley

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Lauren, I'm not even gonna deal with you LOL you're impossible!

Ditto.

The thing is you're just never able to believe any experiences that contradict yours. And that's totally fine if that's the way you are, but a type does not tell you everything a person is going to be. Thinking "Oh, she's INFJ thus she must hold grudges," is dangerous thinking IMO and a misuse of typology. And the whining about every type that irritates you makes me go :rolli:. You'll find something to dislike about every type/person if you search hard enough.

But anyway, we're going slightly off-topic, so PM me if you wish to continue this.
 

Tiltyred

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I hold grudges and I will take your head off if you push me when I'm hurt and angry. I would not attempt to reason with her. You can't even begin to imagine how irritating it is to have someone try to reason with you when your feelings are at the boiling point. She hasn't started processing yet. She has to get through the angry part (which she may never get completely over) enough to let herself think, and then she's going to be thinking about this for a long time. The more you interfere with her process, the worse, IMO. If she wants to use you for a sounding board, just listen. IF you have a blinding insight that you really think will turn her around in some way, just say it and then drop it and have faith that she'll process. Don't push her while she's in crisis. And I'd say you might have to accept that this is something you'll never be able to talk about without her getting worked up.

I'm sorry for the problems your family is having right now. It must be very difficult.
 

Lux

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There's a difference between "remembering" and "still not talking to you after years" - most people would call that a grudge ;)

Of course if you're still not talking to someone after years you're holding a grudge but that's not what I'm talking about. I talking about the fact that people can be mean, rude, or however it is that's insulting to you and moving on. You forgive that person but you still remember what happened. I do think what you're talking about it a grudge but it's different than what I'm saying. I apologize if I'm not being clear.

As for the "constant revision" - well, that may well happen in your head, but if the external result is that you still won't go anywhere near that person because it makes you go all emotionally wobbly inside again, so you avoid them and won't talk to them for a very long time, whatever is going on in your head, to the outside world that looks like a grudge :)

I don't do any of that. Ever. If I'm around the person I act like things are fine because if I've forgiven them things are fine. It goes along with the constant revision. If you know yourself, you know when you're lying to yourself about being over something. Maybe the INFJ's that rubbed you the wrong way are lying to themselves about being over the injustice, for lack of a better word. If that's the case then you are correct, it's a grudge. I still think we may be talking about different tings though.
 
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