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[ENFP] ENFP's and flirting

SillySapienne

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A spinoff on my INTJ/ENFP thread update. I came across an ENFP's blog and he had a post on flirting.

How many of you ENFP's can relate to this ENFP's words and patterns of flirtation:




If you're interested in reading the full blog post you can find it here:
A long post about flirtation, validation, and conversion at Hugo Schwyzer

No, I do not relate.

I flirt with both men, and women.

I flirt because it is fun. I especially flirt when in a safe environment, i.e. when I am with my boyfriend so as not to have the one I'm flirting with confuse my flirtation as genuine interest.

But, when I flirt, there is some sort of interest there, it's a style of communication, of banter, of getting to know someone with an added layer of, well, fun.

I love hanging around people who have positive energy, and when I deem someone to be "good people", I tend to flirt with them all the time.

I will shower them with affirmations and compliments.

Do I do this so they will do it back?

Perhaps, on a subconscious level, maybe.

But I generally want my affirmation from a select few.
 

Snuggletron

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what is flirting to you, exactly?

I would never show interest to anyone I wasn't well...interested in.
 

SillySapienne

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Flirting: Playful communication with a twist of subtle sexual tension, or innuendo.
 

Mondo

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This sounds a little bit like the ENTP's flirting style- except the ENTP is more crude and less focused on admiration itself and sees it more so as either a way to play with people or get laid.. :devil:
 

LadyJaye

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I enjoy playful banter with people, if that's considered flirting. I do that with men and women. It's just meant to lighten the mood, make people laugh. I'm not making bedroom eyes at everyone within a 50 mile radius of me, though. I reserve hardcore flirting with only the guy I'm interested in. And I certainly don't do it as a way to get my ego boosted at the expense of someone else.
 

Mr.Time

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Definition of "flirting" (dictionary.com):
(1) To make playfully romantic or sexual overtures.
(2) To deal playfully, triflingly, or superficially with.

I'm an INTJ and I personally have to say that flirting (defined as above, especially definition (1)), is truly a disgusting way to live your life. It may be in an ENFP's nature to flirt with people, but you lead people on and eventually you hurt them in a way that is unforgivable. I know I sound harsh, but what can I say, this is how I see it. You ENFP's are attention whores and without any sense of stability or conviction in your life. Once your interest in a person has died, you find someone else and flirt with them. How are others supposed to trust you, especially in a relationship. I'm very bitter.

A few months ago, I met this girl who was an ENFP. I thought she was pretty, but like most people in the world, I didn't really talk to her (b/c of my INTJness). Initially, I didn't like her personality. She seemed to want to please everyone in the world. But as time passed, I found her to be seemingly warm and caring, and she grew on me, she somehow broke my barrier. I am a really shy person to be honest. Nonetheless, I began to let myself out, I told her about things I don't tell most people in the world. She seemed to care about what I had to say, so I told her more things (stuff I've never told anyone), my dreams, my fears, hopes, etc...I trusted her. And trust me, breaking an INTJ's barrier isn't easy, especially if he initially doesn't like your personality. I thought that she was genuinely interested in me, and sometimes it seemed that she was able to remember all the little things I did, so I assumed that she noticed those things because of her romantic interest in me. Other times, she would find me and talk with me, alone.

So, I gathered all my courage, which for me took great amounts of energy and focus. I strategically found the perfect time and place, and I told her my feelings. And that was when I was surprised to hear that she only wanted to be my "friend", that she didn't see me that way. Maybe, for an ENFP, leading someone on is a hobby, but that really hurt. I felt so betrayed. It's been several weeks now, and I still feel so worthless, so used, and even more isolated in my life than I've ever been. It's so hard for me to open up to anyone now. I feel that people are just waiting to stab me in the back. I feel like a fool for falling for her flirtatious behavior. I should have seen through it, but now all I can think about is how much I cared for that whore. As an INTJ, I hate to admit it, but I cried (not in front of her, of course). It had been so many years since the last time I cried.

If this doesn't show you why you shouldn't flirt with someone (unless you're genuinely interested in them and need some way to approach them), then you ENFP's aren't warm and caring, but rather heartless monsters preying on other's weaknesses to make yourselves feel better.
 

Amargith

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First off, I wanna say I feel for you, feeling betrayed in such a way. It *is* painful. Heartbreak is never easy to bear. And I understand how your view of this situation works. But I'm unsure if you can see hers.

She lives for connecting with people. Deeply, at that. It's what drives her. Getting to know others, how they work, what makes them tick. Does that mean she considers them to be just objects? Probably not (since I don't know her), and I'm going to say 'no' is almost certainly the answer.

Most ENFPs care deeply for the person they're connecting to, getting to know, having a great time with. I love sharing deep, intense and warm feelings with someone. It makes me feel safe and I'll gladly reciprocate that feeling. It's a wonderful experience. Yes, we do this with a few people, though not everyone we come across, as we don't have this click with anyone. I have no doubt you were special to her. I have no doubt that she cared deeply for you...as a friend. Because we are that intense in our friendships, it is often hard to gauge when we are in fact infatuated and when we're just greatly appreciative of the friendship and bond we've build up with you.

One clear hint that we're smitten is when we initiate contact ourselves at regular intervals and go out of our way to see you (not meet you at school or some place we always see each other, but actually make appointments and stuff to see you, as this is hard on us to do). The whole 'I cannot stay away from him'-thing.

I can see why you thought differently and, from your perspective, rightly so. But I can assure you now that she didn't mean to lead you on, play tricks on you, or be malicious. She was merely being who she is. You were special to her. You probably still are. She's probably beating herself over the head right now, wondering why this keeps happening to her and why she loses close friends this way. Just because she feels you two wouldn't be right for each other as a couple, doesn't mean she doesn't like you or cares for you at all.

I realize it hurts. And you are right to feel angry and resentful and annoyed with the situation. But realize she's not the devil incarnate. She's just a girl who happened to like you for who you are, as a friend.

:hug:
 

Moiety

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We are not all flirters, Mr.Time. Your ENFP might be. But yes I agree with your sentiment on flirting a bit :

"If this doesn't show you why you shouldn't flirt with someone (unless you're genuinely interested in them and need some way to approach them), then you ENFP's aren't warm and caring, but rather heartless monsters preying on other's weaknesses to make yourselves feel better."


I've learned long ago it takes very little to lead someone on, and I think that's in part too why I developed a somewhat rough exterior, particularly when dealing with women. No mixed signals.


It's actually pretty simple, really. If I'm not interested in someone why be playful in that way and risk triggering sexual tension or romantic feelings? What's so fun about it anyway? Petting each other's egos?

I'd say (and no Amargith, this is not intended to be a remark directed at you :tongue:) that ENFPs who flirt constantly and with everyone, have yet to mature when it comes to their need of feeling wanted. It's also a sign of irresponsibility, which is often something we might be guilty of in other areas too. Some ENFPs want to get their cake (interacting and "feeding off" people) and eat it too (expect others to fully understand what's their deal here...cause "we are free spirits can't you see?"), much like kids. We are so similar to kids in some ways.
 

Amargith

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:D You're entitled to your opinion, sweety, and no I won't take it personally. Maybe you do have a point, I dunno. You're right that the realization of the effect we seem to have is part of growing up. And that curbing misunderstanding is definitely something we need to learn, on this area.

But your reasoning also makes me wonder if some people should maybe lighten up and act like children again. Doing something because it is enjoyable (provided nobody gets hurt!), and nothing more isn't a bad thing, even if the motivation for it is ultimately a bit selfish and feeds your inner child. It makes life enjoyable. Otherwise we'd have to be serious all the time. No fun in that, and such a waste imo :)
 

Moiety

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Doing something because it is enjoyable (provided nobody gets hurt!), and nothing more isn't a bad thing, even if the motivation for it is ultimately a bit selfish and feeds your inner child. It makes life enjoyable. Otherwise we'd have to be serious all the time. No fun in that, and such a waste imo :)

Well, that's the point isn't it. Does it really matter whether we think we are doing anything wrong, if other people keep complaining about it [ı]all the time[/i]? (I'm not talking about we per se, not even ENFPs only...this really applies to everyone living in society)

And as far as "doing something enjoyable and nothing more" is concerned....I could apply that reasoning to so many things. And in so many planes it would immediately conflict with my Fi. I think the really important thing to realize is that immediate satisfaction is often just that...immediate...not long lasting. So there IS a good reason to not simply act on impulses, and it doesn't necessarily make you any less happy. Otherwise we would lead life doing only what we felt like doing.

I'm a firm believer that maturing has nothing to do with becoming bitter or more serious AT ALL. But self-improvement is a very beautiful thing. It's hard, but then you get your pay off too. Balance.
 

Amargith

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Think we're in agreeance, safe for one thing: from what I can tell, you don't believe flirting can be done without someone getting hurt. From experience, I can tell you you're wrong :)
 

Moiety

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Think we're in agreeance, safe for one thing: from what I can tell, you don't believe flirting can be done without someone getting hurt. From experience, I can tell you you're wrong :)

Oh I think it can, sure. But I know how ENFPs like to think they are the masters of communication and understanding..... and yet.... I've read enough stories here, about ENFPs hurting others in that way, to know that there's probably a lesson to be learned here by everyone.

Also, I don't think flirting gives me the same pleasure it does to you. I just don't see what's so fun about it. It's cool when you're in the supermarket being playful with some nice old lady for the whole of, like, 5 minutes...but after that...it just gets boring. Do you constantly flirt with long time friends too? It just seems like a very superficial and boring way to "connect"...
 

Amargith

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Don't forget that ENFPs too need to mature, like any type. I dunno about you, but I didn't ever consider myself a genius when it came to connecting with people, growing up. And I still don't. That's ENFJ territory, imo. Reading them, sure, like a book. But actually doing something with that info? Hell no.

And yeah, mere flirting can get superficial and boring after a while, no doubt. That's why it's never the only thing I do. Flirting I use to verify to break the ice and gain some information about the person, see how they react, what they're like, to find out if we've got common ground, something else in common except this 'spark' we share. If we don't..it dies out. If there is more, I'll continue with that. I'll still toss in a playful remark now and again, but it will be mostly deeper conversation, laced with some playfulness. On occasion, I'll feel like being silly and go back to the flirting. I dunno. It just adds a nice touch, nothing more. It's like wearing make-up to me. It adds a little somethign which can be quite nice, but it doesn't define the person.
 

Charmed Justice

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It's cool when you're in the supermarket being playful with some nice old lady for the whole of, like, 5 minutes...but after that...it just gets boring. Do you constantly flirt with long time friends too? It just seems like a very superficial and boring way to "connect"...
Flirting with senior citizens in the grocery store.:D

Over the long term, I agree, flirting alone gets boring. But I've never seen anyone flirt long-term, at least not an ENFP, without also connecting to a person in other ways. But that's when it starts getting more complicated, because through the connecting behaviors, people begin to get other ideas.

Playboys are the most fun to flirt with in the short term. You know they're flirting with you and 100 other people, and take it just as lightly.
 

allie bug

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in a way, i think what's perceived as flirting is truly the way enfp's get to know other people. it's a playful attitude and accepting attitude. Just because we don't come right out and say "hey, I dont like you like that" doesn't mean we aren't totally pleased to be interacting with you. Do yall have issues keeping platonic friends? or even making them in the first place? Because every male friend I seem to make...no matter how much I clearly state "we are just friends" ends up either trying to persuade me to be romantically interested the whole time or getting really pissed and we don't talk anymore. It sucks....I don't know how not to flirt....or whatever it is I do.
 

Amargith

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I think it also has to do with the fundamental difference in biology. Most men talk to a woman with the idea that she is a potential mate and I might wanna date her eventually. Otherwise why would I take the time to talk to her? (yes this is a generalization, but it's amazing how often this is the case). Whereas women tend to just be interested in the person first and afterwards go..oh ok, he could be just what I need in a man. Ok. There are exceptions where attraction at first sight is very much true, but in general it seems to be that men approach women as relationship potential/fuck potential whereas women don't really think about it that consciously. It's not the first thing on our minds when we start talking to a person.
 

Moiety

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Don't forget that ENFPs too need to mature, like any type. I dunno about you, but I didn't ever consider myself a genius when it came to connecting with people, growing up. And I still don't. That's ENFJ territory, imo. Reading them, sure, like a book. But actually doing something with that info? Hell no.

No, no. I meant reading yep. See that's just it. Some ENFPs claim to be able to read people's intentions effortlessly and then get surprised when people show they are romantically interested in them and that others perceive them as flirters. I mean...c'mon people!

Yes ENFPs too need to mature. In fact, ENXPs are stereotypically supposed to be the ones that mature the latest or something, right?


And yeah, mere flirting can get superficial and boring after a while, no doubt. That's why it's never the only thing I do. Flirting I use to verify to break the ice and gain some information about the person, see how they react, what they're like, to find out if we've got common ground, something else in common except this 'spark' we share. If we don't..it dies out. If there is more, I'll continue with that. I'll still toss in a playful remark now and again, but it will be mostly deeper conversation, laced with some playfulness. On occasion, I'll feel like being silly and go back to the flirting. I dunno. It just adds a nice touch, nothing more. It's like wearing make-up to me. It adds a little somethign which can be quite nice, but it doesn't define the person.

I think you somehow see it as "playfulness implies flirting". Flirting is a specific kind of playfulness. There are lot of ways to be playful without hinting at anything even remotely sexual/romantic/whatever.


EnFpFer said:
Over the long term, I agree, flirting alone gets boring. But I've never seen anyone flirt long-term, at least not an ENFP, without also connecting to a person in other ways. But that's when it starts getting more complicated, because through the connecting behaviors, people begin to get other ideas.

Exactly. A connection implies both parties know what's up.

EnFpFer said:
Playboys are the most fun to flirt with in the short term. You know they're flirting with you and 100 other people, and take it just as lightly.

Funnily enough, if I were to catalog and use Te in the most simplistic and prejudiced way possible, I'd say playboys are the epitome of immaturity, irresponsibility and lack of self-awareness and self-confidence.
 

Lady_X

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Definition of "flirting" (dictionary.com):
(1) To make playfully romantic or sexual overtures.
(2) To deal playfully, triflingly, or superficially with.

I'm an INTJ and I personally have to say that flirting (defined as above, especially definition (1)), is truly a disgusting way to live your life. It may be in an ENFP's nature to flirt with people, but you lead people on and eventually you hurt them in a way that is unforgivable. I know I sound harsh, but what can I say, this is how I see it. You ENFP's are attention whores and without any sense of stability or conviction in your life. Once your interest in a person has died, you find someone else and flirt with them. How are others supposed to trust you, especially in a relationship. I'm very bitter.

A few months ago, I met this girl who was an ENFP. I thought she was pretty, but like most people in the world, I didn't really talk to her (b/c of my INTJness). Initially, I didn't like her personality. She seemed to want to please everyone in the world. But as time passed, I found her to be seemingly warm and caring, and she grew on me, she somehow broke my barrier. I am a really shy person to be honest. Nonetheless, I began to let myself out, I told her about things I don't tell most people in the world. She seemed to care about what I had to say, so I told her more things (stuff I've never told anyone), my dreams, my fears, hopes, etc...I trusted her. And trust me, breaking an INTJ's barrier isn't easy, especially if he initially doesn't like your personality. I thought that she was genuinely interested in me, and sometimes it seemed that she was able to remember all the little things I did, so I assumed that she noticed those things because of her romantic interest in me. Other times, she would find me and talk with me, alone.

So, I gathered all my courage, which for me took great amounts of energy and focus. I strategically found the perfect time and place, and I told her my feelings. And that was when I was surprised to hear that she only wanted to be my "friend", that she didn't see me that way. Maybe, for an ENFP, leading someone on is a hobby, but that really hurt. I felt so betrayed. It's been several weeks now, and I still feel so worthless, so used, and even more isolated in my life than I've ever been. It's so hard for me to open up to anyone now. I feel that people are just waiting to stab me in the back. I feel like a fool for falling for her flirtatious behavior. I should have seen through it, but now all I can think about is how much I cared for that whore. As an INTJ, I hate to admit it, but I cried (not in front of her, of course). It had been so many years since the last time I cried.

If this doesn't show you why you shouldn't flirt with someone (unless you're genuinely interested in them and need some way to approach them), then you ENFP's aren't warm and caring, but rather heartless monsters preying on other's weaknesses to make yourselves feel better.

wow wth...i refuse to believe it's wrong to genuinely care about someone and develop a friendship with only platonic interests...it's just not right to say women who do so are heartless monsters. it is one thing if they lead you to believe they are romantically interested but unfair of you to assume such just because they're talking to you. people need to learn the difference and ask for clarification if you're confused. we should not have to close ourselves off from people for fear that they may develop feelings...it doesn't seem fair.
 

Amargith

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Sy, it's not coz you can read something, that you can interpret it perfectly. I can read what someone is feeling, but the way they will interpret those feelings and use them is an entirely different thing. Realizing someone is in love with you is an interpretation..not something you read. You read warmth, closeness, comfortableness, feeling special, causing soothing emotions and blissfull ones in the other and vice versa. But..since I'm experiencing the same as they are and I'm not in love..how am I to know that the other will consider it infatuation? That's what I mean with doing something with that info..it's an entirely different skill.


I don't mean to limit all playfullness to flirting. But, it is the type of playfulness I enjoy most, my personal style if you will. I can be playful without flirting too, by being silly and absurd, but my signature style is by sexual innuendo. I see no reason to limit myself, if all participants are up for it :)
 
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