[ENFP] ENFP's and flirting

[thescientist]

A spinoff on my INTJ/ENFP thread update. I came across an ENFP's blog and he had a post on flirting.

How many of you ENFP's can relate to this ENFP's words and patterns of flirtation:

It was only in my early thirties, when I underwent my spiritual conversion, that I became willing to rethink my own flirtatiousness. Doing a written inventory of my romantic and sexual history, I realized that from 13 to 31 I had devoted a colossal amount of time and energy to flirting. The goal was rarely sex — the goal was validation of my own desirability. I was a first-rate narcissist, always eager to “stir the pot” to see if I could arouse a spark of interest in the various women I met in my life. It never mattered if I was single or attached, and I didn’t much care if these women were available or not. My ego needed feeding, and flirting was the best damn way I knew to get it fed. If the “intriguing” led to a short-term relationship or brief encounter, so much the better — but that was just icing on the cake. The “cake” in these instances was the knowledge that I was wanted. And knowing that I was desirable was the ultimate payoff.

Flirtation, particularly when we are married or in committed relationship, brings us dangerously close to one of the most pernicious sins of all. No, I don’t mean adultery. I mean the sin of using another human being to soothe our own anxiety, to feed our ravenous ego. Sending out “mixed messages” that arouse interest, deliberately fishing about to see if we can get a little “stroking” — this is toxic, manipulative, adolescent. I did it for nearly twenty years. It took several years more of hard work to break myself of the habit. Even now, I remain vigilant, knowing that it would be false pride to claim that I am forevermore immune from the temptation to soothe myself this way.

If you're interested in reading the full blog post you can find it here:
A long post about flirtation, validation, and conversion at Hugo Schwyzer

 

[Amargith]

I can, somewhat. I discovered this when I was 17. Couldn't understand why people were attracted to me, or how, but I did enjoy it. The thing is that that feeling is addictive. It brings about an incredibly delicious chemical coctail in your body. Hence you seek it out again and again. It's also something that happens quite naturally (coz we meet a lot of people etc), but can also be 'helped' to happen, by being quite flirty.

I still do that, even here. But I've build in boundaries over the years. There's nothing fun about leading someone on, or even worse, hurting someone's feelings. It kinda ruins it for me. I tend to enjoy playing a 'game' with those that are game and wanna flirt a bit back. They know from the beginning though that I'm taken and just joking about. Took me a while though to work out the game rules and unfortunately I too inadvertently hurt some people coz I didn't realize what was going on.

I believe it comes forth (at least in my case) out of a desire to be close to someone. It's an intense bond, that spark is indeed intoxicating. It gives a feeling of safety, closeness, of a deep bond. And this is pretty much a shortcut to all of that, as it gains you access to someone's inner core rather quickly. It can be used to build a deeper bond on as well. It's pretty easy to abuse to fix a bad day, temporarily fix your low self esteem, get rid of loneliness, etc.

If you do a search, you'll no doubt also find the previous enfp flirt thread. Be warned, it was quite heated

 

[BerberElla]

I can, somewhat. I discovered this when I was 17. Couldn't understand why people were attracted to me, or how, but I did enjoy it. The thing is that that feeling is addictive. It brings about an incredibly delicious chemical coctail in your body. Hence you seek it out again and again. It's also something that happens quite naturally (coz we meet a lot of people etc), but can also be 'helped' to happen, by being quite flirty.

I still do that, even here. But I've build in boundaries over the years. There's nothing fun about leading someone on, or even worse, hurting someone's feelings. It kinda ruins it for me. I tend to enjoy playing a 'game' with those that are game and wanna flirt a bit back. They know from the beginning though that I'm taken and just joking about. Took me a while though to work out the game rules and unfortunately I too inadvertently hurt some people coz I didn't realize what was going on.


If you do a search, you'll no doubt also find the previous enfp flirt thread. Be warned, it was quite heated

I still feel this way now. I have no idea what makes me attractive to other people, I am baffled when guys approach me, but I enjoy the feeling of knowing I am desirable even if I don't understand what motivates it, because in all honesty I don't really view myself favourably.

 

[nomadic]

It never mattered if I was single or attached

i can't relate to this part. if im in a serious relationship, i don't flirt in the way i would when i am single. but i do like knowing that the girl is prioritizing me, in the things she says, acts, vibes. but there are lines i don't cross in talking to people if im in a serious relationship.

Sending out “mixed messages” that arouse interest, deliberately fishing about to see if we can get a little “stroking” — this is toxic, manipulative, adolescent.

I never send out mixed messages. Although I am honest about being confused. I'm honest about my general relationship situation, and rather not give out too many details because sometimes it just seems like it would traumatize that girl. And other times, it doesn't. For some reason, they seek me out in person in group situations, and im not sure why. its all just keeping doors open anyways, from their perspective. no need to be an ass to them. but yeah, only girls who are close to me can change the way I feel about them.

 

[Moiety]

I will admit to liking to bask in the reflection of my own awesomeness...but I have serious problems with this "flirt" nomenclature. I'm no flirter. If anything I like bantering, but that's with everyone really, not just girls.

I cannot relate at all to this flirtious slutty ENFP stereotype that reeks of insecurity. I do not understand how so many of this threads pop up so often. Does this mean I'm not an ENFP or what?No flirting, no mixed signals, blunt as a pre-historic kitchen knife. This recurrently portrayed pimp ENFP person, sounds very alien to me.

 

[the state i am in]

yeah people flirt to build themselves up. it's fun being good at something. to people who aren't as flirtatious, it's frustrating bc they attach specific meanings to it and imagine it means a prioritization or a commitment. but any game is more fun when you have skill and get to exercise it, get recognized for it, etc.

the game of flirting is toying the gender lines as much as possible. playing with notions of sex, intrigue, seduction, wit/candor, etc, to get the excitement up as much as possible. enfps are naturals at this, it is one of their best skills. therefore, they like to do it as much as possible. mingling energies, getting-things-going in berens parlance.

the mature ones realize that many partners and potential partners and acquaintances have different expectations, find the experience to suggest or mean something specific, and don't like being play things. the level of narcissism for flirters varies widely and many situations are honest mistakes, they are more give and take and you can't just blame the efp. i'm grateful for some of the esfps and enfps who reached out to me even if ultimately it was disillusioning. i needed it nonetheless, and it was fun. learning to accept the reality of the situation helps really introverted people learn to step up, communicate, reach out, and take more social risks. rather than idealizing, assuming, and not just allowing situations to develop- getting caught up too quickly and not allow more experimentation to guide them in the right direction. people learn from mistakes, too, not just foreseeing potential problems and miscommunications.

with that said, enfps are one of my best matches for dating, but i couldn't handle about 70% of them. often they are too scattered and diffuse, i need more prioritization to want to invest in a relationship at all- it is what it is. they explore connections that are romantic, sexual, serious, playful, etc much more aggressively all-at-once. it takes them time to slowly wean themselves away from equidistant points on triangles all over the map and privilege one specific relationship. with that said, they will always need to explore and connect socially, and strangleholding them will never ever ever work.

 

[CzeCze]

I can't really identify with that. I don't flirt with people who I am not interested in. I don't even necessarily flirt consciously. If I like someone I "approach them". I don't necessarily flirt. It's a little different. And I prefer to approach others, not to wait to have them approach me.

And when I AM "flirting" with someone, it probably is because we're already dating or leading up to it.

I think sometimes people see EPs interacting and call it 'flirting', whether or not the behavior is being misinterpreted. But, I think that's a slightly different topic. I like to joke around with people, but I don't consider that flirting...

As for myself and my motivations for my behavior - in general I don't like flirts. That probably says a lot about why I myself do not flirt to seek validation (at least, not consciously). Some people can pull it off well, but in general I think OVERT flirting and flirts are troublemakers because of that need for (constant) attention/validation. And especially if I see you doing that with someone I'm dating? Oh noooooooo.

I'm surrounded by a lot of women and I find flirting almost passive-aggressive? Inadvertently/indirectly seeking one kind of validation instead of seeking the real validation you want or need. Or flirting with people instead of outright asking them out. Or continuing to flirt with people who have rejected you or are taken and unlikely to leave their partner for you. Also, a lot of people do NOT know when someone is NOT flirting with them or they ARE flirting but not in any serious way. This causes misunderstanding later.

Also, if I know you aren't even attracted to me or what not, I find attempts at flirting almost insulting. Like really? Do I look that desperate for attention? (Wait, no, don't answer that!!! LOL) I don't even necessarily return flirting for those reasons.

I think being an Ne/Fi dom, I can spot "fake" flirting pretty easily. Or maybe that's me cruelly misinterpreting people. Either way, I'm hard to impress?

I will say regarding XNFPs and the OP --

1) I AM a big ham. I don't flirt, I perform. Like, for real performs on stage or by leading a workshop, etc. I've never been shy on stage. I like karaoke even. And I do enjoy interacting with people, etc. I find just by being my extraverted self I usually get the "attention" and stimulation I need.

2) I think it's an interesting that an Fi dom would flirt mostly for the rush of validation? Because Fi to me makes me super sensitive to opening myself up to just anyone. I don't feel comfortable putting myself out there like unless I am truly into someone and/or I expect a pay-off.

3) Thinking about it again, maybe I'm just full of it and I actually do "flirt" a lot. But, at least consciously, in the way the OP describes, I really don't think so...

 

[kyuuei]

I'm not huge on flirting.. Anything I do outside of sexual/relationship motivations are simple friendliness. The affirmation of being desireable doesn't really work with me unless it's from someone I am or want to be in a relationship with.

 

[INTJ123]

intjs like flirts. to efnps who can't flirt.

 

[Wonkavision]

intjs like flirts. to efnps who can't flirt.

Yeah, I don't know about the other ENFPs, but I can definitely flirt.

I refrain from flirting because I'm married and I love my wife.

When I was not married or in a committed relationship, my flirting was constant, and was a force to be reckoned with.

I can relate a lot to the quote in the OP.

In my case, it's not out of control, but I do have some of those tendencies.

I'm a little surprised at the ENFPs who say they don't flirt, but I guess we're not all the same.

 

[sculpting]

I missed flirting class in middle school. I have no idea how to flirt with men. I sometimes try but it ends up hysterically retarded.

None of the few relationships I have been in were started via flirting. Either the guy was nuts and initiated contact or we were both drunk.

Can I sign up for a class somewhere?

EDIT: In light of wonka's comment-I assume we search for external affirmation as Ne doms. For me this is typically emotional affirmation from those I am very close to. But perhaps others can find that same sense of affirmation via more general complements/interactions with others around us? Does it replace the emo affirmation or just supplement it? In narcissim there are two types of "supply" ie external affirmation. One is primary-like liquid gold, and the other is secondary-more supplemental in nature. Maybe some of this discssion points towards vauge shadows in us that an order of magnitude large would be seen in a narcissist.

 

[CzeCze]

intjs like flirts. to efnps who can't flirt.

Yeah, I don't know about the other ENFPs, but I can definitely flirt.

Whoa - correction:

I didn't say I can't flirt, I said that I don't flirt. Not to the extent anyone would call me a flirt. For similar reasons to what Kyuuei said. There's just no pull/validation for me the way that was described in the OP.

Ne-Monster, I think you are spot on about extraverts/Ne seeking validation like that. I think it's possibly the most annoying trait of Ne doms, ENTPs and ENFPs. It's not necessarily through "flirting" but I've definitely seen ENXPs go overboard seeking validation/stimulation or just unleashing Ne? Or not properly reading people's boundaries. Basically pushing it too far. In different ways but end result is "too much".

As for flirting, you may think that you don't know "how" to flirt, but often I see people interact and it's called "flirting". If at the root of flirting is a flow of energy and banter that is tinged with sexual tension/vibe and true/hidden meanings and intent below the surface - then I'm sure you've flirted many a time before.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

Yeah, I don't know about the other ENFPs, but I can definitely flirt.

I refrain from flirting because I'm married and I love my wife.

Pfff. You've been hitting on pretty much anything female and INTJ for at least a couple of weeks now. Even I've noticed.

 

[Wonkavision]

Pfff. You've been hitting on pretty much anything female and INTJ for at least a couple of weeks now. Even I've noticed.

Have I?

See, I do it so naturally, I don't even realize it half the time.

I noticed I have been pretty close to the line a couple times recently.

I'd better be a little more careful then.

Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Lady_X]

yeah i don't do that...i don't need that sort of affirmation from someone i'm not even with. i'm flirty with someone i'm interested in and start dating though i guess.

 

[kyuuei]

I flirt usually to break the ice. Or joke around.

If I don't want in your pants and you suspect me flirting with you, it's for one of those two things.

And since I'm too shy to openly flirt with someone I have affections for, my flirting is usually centered on these two things alone. I'll flirt with an already established relationship though like there's no tomorrow.

I thought I'd be a bit more clear.. since it seemed like in my earlier post that I NEVER flirt for ANY reason. And it's not true, but what I deem as flirting is the motive to flirt. Obviously my definition is different from that of others, so I thought I'd correct my response.

 

[MacGuffin]

I missed flirting class in middle school. I have no idea how to flirt with men. I sometimes try but it ends up hysterically retarded.

Just smile and linger with eye contact.

 

[Laurie]

Just smile and linger with eye contact.

Yer easy.

 

[MacGuffin]

Yer easy.

It's not that hard... yet!

 

[Lady_X]

Just smile and linger with eye contact.

damn...if that's considered flirty...maybe i DO all the time with everyone...silly people confusing someone being nice and talking with you as flirty...is that true or what?