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[INFJ] infj passion

Gloriana

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I'm sitting here thinking over my relationship with my ex husband, and the passion I felt sort of changed and took new shapes. At first of course (like most couples) I just couldn't get enough of him and was all over him all the time in the beginning. The excitement and the burst of new feelings.

My passion for him felt like it changed after awhile though, when I knew I really loved him and loved him like family. I had the passion and it went even deeper, but I wasn't so HIGH on it, if that makes sense. I felt that loyalty and devotion, and I loved getting the chances to hear him tell stories of his experiences, what he wanted, where he wanted to go, all of it and more. I felt more passion for him then than I did at the beginning, it just wasn't so all-consuming. It almost felt like there was this massive ball of passionate energy that plonked itself down within me at the beginning, and then after awhile that big ball spread out and really rooted those particles all through me.

In my case though, I think my ex associated love WITH that first flush of fierce passion, and when that faded down I think he felt disappointed. I guess for me I never expected that first flush to remain the constant, and I still don't. I preferred the passion I felt later on, after I felt we'd really been through some shit together and bonded, when I felt we had a real partnership and friendship. I don't think he felt that bond though, I am not sure now how his processes worked as much as I tried to understand his side (I think he was ISTJ but not certain).

I think passion IS so subjective, and I don't think one way of feeling it is better than another, you know? I really wished my ex could have communicated better so I could understand his outlook and how things felt for him. I know people who never get that RUSH and HIGH with their passion and they get this bad rep for being fuddy-duddies or what have you, and it sucks because they're so truly in love and devoted, it's just 'quiet passion'.

Like for me personally, I have never gotten how someone can say "I am SO IN LOVE, I LOVE this person more than I've ever loved anyone" after only knowing them for a couple of weeks, I can't fathom that personally but I can't disregard it either. Statistics are kind of B.S. to me in that respect, I've seen long marriages that started with long courtships and I've seen long marriages that started with a ceremony a couple of months after they first met. Just because the idea of marrying someone a month after meeting them wigs ME out like a motherfucker doesn't mean it's a mistake, you know? On the same token, never marrying and just having a close bond with someone over the course of a lifetime also makes sense if it suits the parties.

Now that I've written all that, I am not sure if I said anything relevant to this thread (tangents...they grab me and I follow them...) but maybe I did. I'm trying to find a point, but it's not showing up so I'll leave it at that :D
 

SuperServal

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This INFJ is 25 and has yet to feel passionate love for anyone. Any other INFJs are "broken" in terms of that? It suits me fine personally; I'm a misanthrope anyhow.

i don't know, i just have gotten the impression from most of the infjs that i have met that they rarely had this kind of experience. that rather than find a relationship that is perfect, most kind of just stick eventually in one and, bc it satisfies some of their needs, call it good.

Somehow, I can relate to this. I haven't felt that head-over-heels kind of passion for someone. Whenever I think about love, I always think of it in general terms, such as love for people as a whole, helping them somehow, relating to them.

It's like it all can't fit into one person. I think I may end up alone, after all.

And like you, it kinda suits me just fine.


Waaaaaa???! I should have checked this thread earlier! Here I am starting melodramatic threads over in Relationships about not being able to love and it's totally an INFJ thing? I'm torn between being content without feeling passion for one specific person and being totally bummed out because of it. I never understood how I could love people so much but never "fall for" anyone in particular.

It's tough being an INFJ sometimes. Emotional stoics. :vader1:
 

Lauren Ashley

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This thread is further proof that type is but a very small fraction of who a person is.
 

scortia

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Waaaaaa???! I should have checked this thread earlier! Here I am starting melodramatic threads over in Relationships about not being able to love and it's totally an INFJ thing? I'm torn between being content without feeling passion for one specific person and being totally bummed out because of it. I never understood how I could love people so much but never "fall for" anyone in particular.

It's tough being an INFJ sometimes. Emotional stoics. :vader1:

Hehe, I've dated a couple of people I have a lot in common with, who were good friends and really wanted to date me. But if there was anything before the initial "let's date" decision, it's gone by the end of the first date. Then I soon break it off because I don't want to drag the other party around in a loveless relationship because I know deep down it won't improve. Being in a romantic relationship will also cause me to start finding the other person irritating more and more,... maybe because their attempts at wooing me aren't working and just bother me.

But yes, loving people in general so much but never in love. I just take it as if I do find someone I can love then it must be a fated match. I'll just hang out, live my life, and if it happens it happens. :p
 
V

violaine

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it's where the challenging and inspiring and artistic and deeply romantic elements of a relationship lie. the fucking charge you get from specific people. what gives you that and sets you off as infjs?

It happens with men who intrigue me. Unfortunately, I used to find aloof men intriguing :doh:. A few difficult relationships cured me of my curiosity in that respect. Now I need to be intrigued and for someone to 'see' me.

I always used to struggle with feeling 90% in love but not all the way in. Or feeling it deeply but fleetingly. A few difficult relationships sharpened my sense of who is right for me, a condition which has to be met before I can fall all the way in. I had unconsciously never expected someone to get me. Hence I dated men who I could see I would be good for and who I thought were good men or I grew attached to because they grew attached to me. But there was no real bond of understanding. (I didn't realize that that's how things worked for me at the time.)

I was also quite aloof myself. I struggled with wanting to be 'seen' but enjoying keeping my thoughts to myself. I used to feel like sharing my private musings was diluting them and robbing me of any enjoyment (because of the effort of explaining things that make perfect sense to me in perfect context but require that I give long-winded disclaimers and context and pitch it to a person in their language. Then usually having to defend said idea when all I really wanted was to turn it over in my mind... gah!)

So relationship experience has been invaluable to me in helping me to realize the precondition to falling in love is mutual understanding. e.g. I absolutely love with my current boyfriend that I will say something veiled, almost muttering it as an aside to myself not expecting him to pick up on it and my meaning is so obvious to him! He will just continue conversation not even breaking stride or realizing the feelings he evoked in me at that moment because of his naturally getting me. :laugh: :wubbie:
 

statuesquechica

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This thread is further proof that type is but a very small fraction of who a person is.

:yes: I absolutely agree. Every serious, long-term relationship I have ever been in was extremely passionate and I experienced complete and utter love for the other person. I don't find it hard to open up to another when there is that intellectual/emotional/physical attraction and the effect is intoxicating.

I don't relate at all to holding back if they have shown their love and sincerity to me. I have been hurt, as we all have, but that doesn't dampen my ability to love with an open heart.
 

the state i am in

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Waaaaaa???! I should have checked this thread earlier! Here I am starting melodramatic threads over in Relationships about not being able to love and it's totally an INFJ thing? I'm torn between being content without feeling passion for one specific person and being totally bummed out because of it. I never understood how I could love people so much but never "fall for" anyone in particular.

i don't think it's "totally an infj thing," altho i do think we have some particularities that require maybe a more specific/rare situation. i think the biggest part of all of this, tho, is that many of us infjs have fucked up development bc we haven't matured socially. wayyy too many infjs on this board seem to have Fe as a one-way street, going in but not going out. they experience the pressure of Fe but don't use it productively to meet others halfway and express themselves deeply. this creates bad cycles of withdrawal, social anxiety, tentativeness, and lack of trust. there are obvious examples on this board of infjs who have gotten enough of what they needed and gathered enough strength to be more open and all-in. i have been trying to learn from them and fix my own arrested development.

This thread is further proof that type is but a very small fraction of who a person is.

you obviously have a very different perspective on this thread, altho i can't shake the feeling part of our disagreement is terminology and my fuzzy thinking/thinking outloud.

i agree that type is widely variable based on individual development, enneagram ego fixation, etc. but i think that i would still like to understand the perspectives of those infjs who have less trouble holding back and who have fallen head over heels in love with one specific person, while still being global enough to do the infj thing, connect with many people, clean up poor communication, walk on water, etc.


It happens with men who intrigue me. Unfortunately, I used to find aloof men intriguing :doh:. A few difficult relationships cured me of my curiosity in that respect. Now I need to be intrigued and for someone to 'see' me.

I always used to struggle with feeling 90% in love but not all the way in. Or feeling it deeply but fleetingly. A few difficult relationships sharpened my sense of who is right for me, a condition which has to be met before I can fall all the way in. I had unconsciously never expected someone to get me. Hence I dated men who I could see I would be good for and who I thought were good men or I grew attached to because they grew attached to me. But there was no real bond of understanding. (I didn't realize that that's how things worked for me at the time.)

I was also quite aloof myself. I struggled with wanting to be 'seen' but enjoying keeping my thoughts to myself. I used to feel like sharing my private musings was diluting them and robbing me of any enjoyment (because of the effort of explaining things that make perfect sense to me in perfect context but require that I give long-winded disclaimers and context and pitch it to a person in their language. Then usually having to defend said idea when all I really wanted was to turn it over in my mind... gah!)

So relationship experience has been invaluable to me in helping me to realize the precondition to falling in love is mutual understanding. e.g. I absolutely love with my current boyfriend that I will say something veiled, almost muttering it as an aside to myself not expecting him to pick up on it and my meaning is so obvious to him! He will just continue conversation not even breaking stride or realizing the feelings he evoked in me at that moment because of his naturally getting me. :laugh: :wubbie:

i identify with you yet again. 90% or only intermittently. this is exactly what i meant about focus, passion, etc. i've noticed that as communication improves, it becomes easier to connect and see each other more for who you are individually and less for who you want each other to be.

intrigue is a great word here. i can see many infjs who desire to spend all their time with their s.o. even if they aren't head over heels. even if it doesn't give them tunnel vision toward everyone else. it is partly just that infjs are a focused and committed bunch to whom significant relationships are often the highest priority.

i know that this powerful communication is the basis for me actually committing to any relationship. it is the first and foremost aspect of what makes a relationship compelling for me. but there are other elements too. physical desire, obviously, and connection that CATALYZES my feelings. that intensifies them at times that the feeling just overwhelms me and washes over me. i don't know if this is just a relational condition, a situational context, a romantic tragedy, or something that happens when life gets in the way and you make choices that CREATE this kind of value. i know that Fi is easiest for me to lock onto in others, and love them for their values. and when they give me value or when they have me pumped up in their Fi framework, it's like the line from teh wilco song, "our love, is all of god's money." etc.

but regardless i feel like there needs to be something created individually that intrigues me. that never stops intriguing me. a life-long learning process that creates new material to discuss, share, connect within, enjoy, joke about, etc. i need to want to know the other person, to get all the updates, etc. otherwise it is about the relationship but not about us as individuals.

bc the overarching theme of head-over-heels in love for me is the intense desire to connect, connect, connect. i want to connect with many people i meet and glide by, but for most once or twice is enough. a relationship worth prioritizing and privileging with so many partnership factors must be a renewable resource and capable of frequent re-birth. otherwise it is just the past.
 

rushig

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but what makes you passionately love someone? what makes you want one specific person more than anyone and everyone else? do infjs feel this happen for them easily, often, etc?

well for me the guy always had to be intellectually stimulating. I've madly fallen in love just once where I still respect him very deeply. He was an ENTJ. The intellect set in the chemistry and we were connected in our emotions in a very strange way where we primarily felt/reacted with certain aspects identically.
 

Lauren Ashley

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you obviously have a very different perspective on this thread, altho i can't shake the feeling part of our disagreement is terminology and my fuzzy thinking/thinking outloud.

i agree that type is widely variable based on individual development, enneagram ego fixation, etc. but i think that i would still like to understand the perspectives of those infjs who have less trouble holding back and who have fallen head over heels in love with one specific person, while still being global enough to do the infj thing, connect with many people, clean up poor communication, walk on water, etc.
That's exactly the issue: I'm not particularly interested in connecting with many people on such a deep level. I'm close with friends, but my connections with them are very different than the connection with a SO. I somewhat lack that whole humanitarian bent that NFs are said to have; I am interested in helping people, but on an individual basis, and even then I see this as far and away secondary to other activities in my life. I have two siblings, an ENFP and ENFJ and their love moves in many channels and touches a greater amount of people, whereas mine is less widespread but concentrated and fixed.

You're not going to be able to stuff all INFJs in one box with a pink bow; I can relate to INFPs, ENFJs, INTJs, and ENTPs more than I can relate to some INFJs.
 

Penda

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What bothers me is that women/girls I felt passionate about in the past still linger with me so much. I think the passion is based a great deal on fantasy, because sometimes I have it for people I don't really know that much about, just enough to kindle the fires. But it sure seems to last a long time. It also can seem so overwhelming that it makes pursuing the object of my desires very difficult, since it makes her seem so out of reach. I haven't felt that way in a couple years, which kind of worries me. I hope I can find a way to balance my passions (assuming I still have them) with a more tangible and practical approach to relationships in the future.
 

cafe

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Some things about my partner that inspire my passion are:

His smell - that's probably some genetic pheromone thing that can't be helped

When he talks about things I'm interested in that he has researched and we discuss them and I learn something - we talk a lot of politics and econ on our evening walks. It feeds my bleeding heart side as well as my nerd fetish. So hot!

When he shows that steady solidity and dependability that I so admire and that makes me feel secure - he goes to work every day and brings his money home to his family does not complain about it

When I observe him being his conscientious, ethical self - when I pick him up from work and see how much he goes out of his way to make sure the cargo in the truck is neatly and thoroughly secured even though the other guys don't go to so much trouble I feel like he's over doing it, but at the same time, it's what I love about him

He is always making me laugh, but that doesn't really inspire passion. I feed and thrive on it, but only notice it if he is sick or something and I become kind of morose and realize it's missing. At the same time, it's so cute when he tells me a joke and is so pleased with himself when I groan because it's so horrible. It's like a little boy putting a toad in my lunch box or something.

I know some of these things are mundane and kind of 'SJ' but they just make me melt.

Having someone to admire and and respect and trust who treats me with that same admiration and respect and trust is amazing and humbling.

As far as narrowing it down to one person -- I don't really have a lot of respect for very many men and I certainly have never met my husband's equal, let alone his better. Why would I want his inferior?
 

ReadingRainbows

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What bothers me is that women/girls I felt passionate about in the past still linger with me so much. I think the passion is based a great deal on fantasy, because sometimes I have it for people I don't really know that much about, just enough to kindle the fires. But it sure seems to last a long time. It also can seem so overwhelming that it makes pursuing the object of my desires very difficult, since it makes her seem so out of reach. I haven't felt that way in a couple years, which kind of worries me. I hope I can find a way to balance my passions (assuming I still have them) with a more tangible and practical approach to relationships in the future.

Time will smother all sparks not kept alive. Its the way things move and are. Its part of who we are. We love again with reckless abandon, without seeing the true end of what might be, over and over again as our cycle repeats. Some of us get lucky and find one person to repeat said cycle with and rest of us take a bit longer to get to our stage of said passion or fufillment.
:)
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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but what makes you passionately love someone? what makes you want one specific person more than anyone and everyone else? do infjs feel this happen for them easily, often, etc?

well that's the age-old question isn't it? why do we fall in love? why do we fall in love with a certain person?

i think you cannot find a function to define it because it is so........exponentially complex. from the time we are born we have idiosyncracies about how we relate with ourselves, our parents, or environment, what influences us, what moves us, what drives us, ad infinitum; that makes us who we are. and we are complex, and as infj we are not ignorant of that, and others are complex to us as well. and we can see all the possibilities!

the irony is that Love is Everywhere, as rainbows alluded to. and yet it is elusive at the same time. if infj could reach outside ourselves and our need to be private and protect our inner selves and embrace others' souls as we are wont to do, we could probably find love easily. but because of so many other factors, and our need to protect ourselves (which incidentally is not dependent on type), and others' need to protect themselves, and our fear of being hurt again, it is hard to bridge that gap, even as we bridge other intimacy gaps with friends and family.

you embrace a psychological theory of love. i am more biological in my approach. when you find someone you want to be intimate with, either through a check list dating methodology, or through a serendipitous encounter (my personal fav), and the passion starts flowing between the two of you, and pheremones mix, NRE (new relationship energy) happens. this is further fueled by pea (phenylethylalanine), which is a chemical that makes you feel love sick; like you can't eat, sleep, or think about anything but the object d' your amore.

why we are desirous to begin this process with certain people and not others is one of life's great mysteries. why we have this connection, this energy with some is as wonderful as it is mystical. it is a great gift, but like all great gifts, must be wielded warily, because, as we all know, love can be bring us ecstasy or bring us pain, not to mention delivering pain to others.

i do not know about lumping this up under type either, like some others mentioned. i am passionate as are many others. i can feel unconditional love for people. i don't think having a hard time falling in love and staying in love is very type dependent. i think it probably has more to do with allowing oneself to be vulnerable and opening oneself up to love. and everyone can have difficulties with this, no matter what type one is. passionate or not passionate. yes, i know infj are the 'most dissatisfied with marital relationships,' but that can be because of other factors, not necessarily be related to love.

i'm not sure i really addressed your op. but i tried. :huh:
 

the state i am in

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I know some of these things are mundane and kind of 'SJ' but they just make me melt.

Having someone to admire and and respect and trust who treats me with that same admiration and respect and trust is amazing and humbling.

to me this sounds like compassion. deep understanding and awareness of another. this is obviously a huge component in how we as infjs love others. but i find this with many others all the time. rarely does this make me focus on this person exclusively, or want this person more than the rest. i feel a moment of love for them, but it is ephemeral. and it just goes into the stockpile of humanity and its collective subjective experience (why i love humanity, etc).

As far as narrowing it down to one person -- I don't really have a lot of respect for very many men and I certainly have never met my husband's equal, let alone his better. Why would I want his inferior?

i meet many-a great women, it seems. or if not many, definitely enough. the idea of inferior is perhaps on the right track for this question, but ultimately i see so much potential and warmth and goodness in many women. judging others as inferior does not resonate with my way of viewing the world and connecting with others. it does when i get judgy and relate only in terms of what i want in the moment, but it is not a story that feels true enough to hang my hat on at night.


We love again with reckless abandon, without seeing the true end of what might be, over and over again as our cycle repeats.

this does not sound like Ni to me at all. Ni is the foreseeing function. always one eye on the future. i simply do not relate to this in the least.

you embrace a psychological theory of love. i am more biological in my approach.

i do not understand why this is relevant. the body goes through biological changes when interacting with others, quite drastically when sexual response becomes activated. of course this is true. but i don't know why you bring this up, unless you are saying the way to passionately fall in love with someone is just- whoever you sleep with, you'll passionately love. bc biology makes it so.

there is obviously a fraction of truth to this. the physical changes in the body create various moods. but human beings are interpretative and psychological creatures. with ideas, language, communication, etc. they have many diverse values and priorities, and most of these sexual bonds created fall to puddles in the sheets within minutes, hours, days, or weeks after consummation. there is a heightening but, especially in men (is this true?), there is a refractory period where half the time we cannot even see you, bc you have blended in with the wallpaper (being overly harsh and perhaps hyperbolic).

i do not know about lumping this up under type either, like some others mentioned. i am passionate as are many others. i can feel unconditional love for people. i don't think having a hard time falling in love and staying in love is very type dependent. i think it probably has more to do with allowing oneself to be vulnerable and opening oneself up to love. and everyone can have difficulties with this, no matter what type one is. passionate or not passionate. yes, i know infj are the 'most dissatisfied with marital relationships,' but that can be because of other factors, not necessarily be related to love.

i do not mean to suggest that claiming infjness is a catch-all for anything. type, cognitive functions, plays a huge role in organizing a persons own interpretations of themselves, channeling their energies, and directing their attention/focus. to say that there are no patterns that emerge as a result of these, even if they are obviously much more difficult and too complex to grasp within a single stereotype (which is not how i perceive what i do), is pointless to me.




i do think that, at times, communicating poor ideas and bad thinking is ultimately a negative thing. and some of the threads in which we create a single story that shifts blame for our unhappinesses to specific subjects that are divorced from what we have control over is ultimately a negative process.

i do not think that infjs need to be the most unhappy in marital situations by any means. god knows i wont be. i've already figured out too much to ever let that happen. i feel better about myself as a result of mb than i ever have, largely bc it has helped me communi9cate better with others and create more fulfilling relationships. i do want to think aloud in this thread bc i have a lot of loose ends i am trying to arrange into a more coherent and multi-faceted picture.

which is to say, there's no fucking way in hell that an infj falls in love the same way as an estp does. there are some basic biological processes that tie us all together. some basic underlying grammar of love, sex, reproduction, social affection, etc that are rooted in biological processes, social behavior, cultural understandings, etc.

but we have different balances of thinking and feeling. we have a totally different perceptual system, at opposite ends of the spectrum. we are directed outward and very detail-oriented in the world as a result. our introverted judgment function is an unconscious one (Ti). this grounds us to ourselves and what we think is TRUE for us. clarifies the story that creates some of our sense of purpose, internal stability, calling, direction, etc. whereas Fe is directed outside of ourselves, connecting with others perhaps somewhat discriminantly, but ultimately focused on them (their story, their needs, their information) rather than our own way of relating to them. on how they relate to us and each other, at large. which makes it difficult, i find, to be in touch with my overarching, long-range feelings (/wants).

this is not an impossible problem. but i do find that it makes for some specific challenges. tho, as stated in the thread, probably not as problematic as just becoming healthier, improving in the ability to let go, to stop foreseeing SO HARD all the time, to be more in the moment, connect with Fe more freely, and allow a sense of conduct to guide you through the rough patches and moments of un-knowing, un-feeling, or wariness/moodiness.

nevertheless, in love, i often feel like my skin is inside out. that i am seeing only my own outside, or that recognizing myself in the mirror is the only way to know how i truly feel, what i truly want, what i truly am in this relationship. clearing away my pre-conceptions and meditating on the other person helps too, when alone, bc i become more in touch with what/who they really are apart from me and what i want in a very ephemeral Fe moment/mood.

much of what i am interested in discussing is probably a mix of passion, yes, but just as much, relationship growing pains for infj types who have very little experience and a lot of Ni bullshit to come to terms with, open up and become less restricted, less demanding, and more responsible, reasonable, generous adults (talking about myself here).
 

Jaded Idealist

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i do not think that infjs need to be the most unhappy in marital situations by any means. god knows i wont be. i've already figured out too much to ever let that happen. i feel better about myself as a result of mb than i ever have, largely bc it has helped me communi9cate better with others and create more fulfilling relationships. i do want to think aloud in this thread bc i have a lot of loose ends i am trying to arrange into a more coherent and multi-faceted picture.

Amen. All of our introspection, all that Ni meticulously going to work ultimately has to coalesce into real wisdom. INFJs are anything but drifting pieces of wood ready to be nailed down by the current (sorry, ESFPs, but you've got something to work on ;) ) and when we find that rare little thing in this world that could be called true love, we've evaluated and examined the circumstances so succinctly, so holistically that it could scarcely be anything else than love indeed.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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i do not understand why this is relevant. the body goes through biological changes when interacting with others, quite drastically when sexual response becomes activated. of course this is true. but i don't know why you bring this up, unless you are saying the way to passionately fall in love with someone is just- whoever you sleep with, you'll passionately love. bc biology makes it so.

well, you made this relevant for me when you kept mentioning the framework of the 'triangular theory of love' and how we deal with love within that construct. i wikied it and it just doesn't ring very true for me personally. yes, i can understand it, but it doesn't resonate with me. i think about love as i mentioned in my post, but that is only the tip of the iceberg. and as i said in my post, no, i think WHY we fall in love with a certain person is a mystery, not that we necessarily fall in love with whom we fuck. you must be getting this post confused with some of my others. ;)




but we have different balances of thinking and feeling. we have a totally different perceptual system, at opposite ends of the spectrum. we are directed outward and very detail-oriented in the world as a result. our introverted judgment function is an unconscious one (Ti). this grounds us to ourselves and what we think is TRUE for us. clarifies the story that creates some of our sense of purpose, internal stability, calling, direction, etc. whereas Fe is directed outside of ourselves, connecting with others perhaps somewhat discriminantly, but ultimately focused on them (their story, their needs, their information) rather than our own way of relating to them. on how they relate to us and each other, at large. which makes it difficult, i find, to be in touch with my overarching, long-range feelings (/wants).

this is not an impossible problem. but i do find that it makes for some specific challenges. tho, as stated in the thread, probably not as problematic as just becoming healthier, improving in the ability to let go, to stop foreseeing SO HARD all the time, to be more in the moment, connect with Fe more freely, and allow a sense of conduct to guide you through the rough patches and moments of un-knowing, un-feeling, or wariness/moodiness.

nevertheless, in love, i often feel like my skin is inside out. that i am seeing only my own outside, or that recognizing myself in the mirror is the only way to know how i truly feel, what i truly want, what i truly am in this relationship. clearing away my pre-conceptions and meditating on the other person helps too, when alone, bc i become more in touch with what/who they really are apart from me and what i want in a very ephemeral Fe moment/mood.

well, i understand that different types are going to approach love and relationship differently. i just am not sure how much Ti or Fe or Bs plays in that. imo, probably not nearly as much as life circumstances. i just don't think we are all that different when it comes to taking that plunge. but i respect your need/desire to analyze it to the nth degree. i am like that too about many things. T or F can each have their inherent difficulties, though i am by no means a function expert.

Ti is my 5th function, not 3rd. i think it might be interesting to see what other infj's function order is (i've mentioned this before in several threads). i DO have a problem seeing people as they are, but i tend to see them as more beautiful and perfect instead of as lacking (not saying you think this way, just saying), which makes me love people more easily perhaps. maybe Ti keeps one from being able to fully embrace someone because you are always analyzing them to see if they are really a good fit for you? i've heard this same theme in many infj posts on love and relationship.
 
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