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  1. #81
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I'm not familiar with the term hit kid.

    I agree that actions are a more direct way to determine intent than words. If there is a significant schism between an individual's action and words, it is better to determine intent based on the actions. Talk is cheap and requires less personal investment.

    Interestingly enough I have had some opposite experiences. In my profession there are many silver-tongued devils. Flattery is typically a precursor to exploitation. I wish I could determine intent more quickly than I do. It would save me some trouble.

    The most effective method here would be iNtuitively reading people by trying to pierce through to their inner being. Looking at the very core of who they are, irrespectively of what they do or say. What they do or say must be thought of as what stems from the core of their being. We know that they act this way because we know something deeper about them, so we dont need to look at their words or actions to see it, if we can Intuitively read them.

  2. #82
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    The most effective method here would be iNtuitively reading people by trying to pierce through to their inner being. Looking at the very core of who they are, irrespectively of what they do or say. What they do or say must be thought of as what stems from the core of their being. We know that they act this way because we know something deeper about them, so we dont need to look at their words or actions to see it, if we can Intuitively read them.
    How do you intuitively read someone irregardless of their words and actions? Are you implying something of a mystical nature? From my perspective intuition has more to do with perceiving comprehensive details, being able to place them within a context, and to note inconsistencies. It is the inconsistencies that allow us glimpses into potential falsehoods. The difficult part is distinguishing revealing inconsistencies from simple random inconsistencies that are simply aberrations and not moments of meaning.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  3. #83
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I'm not familiar with the term hit kid.
    I think she just meant a "kid who was hit regularly."

    I agree that actions are a more direct way to determine intent than words. If there is a significant schism between an individual's action and words, it is better to determine intent based on the actions. Talk is cheap and requires less personal investment.
    Yep. That's what she's saying. To survive physically and emotionally, you can't afford to listen to what people say -- all that matters is what they do.

    As for me, I just pulled out and avoided everyone as my Defense of Choice... but I did pick up some of what Meshou is talking about. And when I was in my teens and throughout most of my 20's, I had the same fixation of "clear evidence" -- I probably sounded very S in my almost empirical demands before I would accept anything as true.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #84
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    How do you intuitively read someone irregardless of their words and actions? Are you implying something of a mystical nature? From my perspective intuition has more to do with perceiving comprehensive details, being able to place them within a context, and to note inconsistencies. It is the inconsistencies that allow us glimpses into potential falsehoods. The difficult part is distinguishing revealing inconsistencies from simple random inconsistencies that are simply aberrations and not moments of meaning.
    Sometimes intuition.. the gut instinct about someone is more than the sum of detail, context and inconsistency, surely? For me it is about discovering something that is not visible within any individual factor but is right when the whole is considered. Am I using mysticism when I do that? I dont know...

    -Geoff

  5. #85
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yep. That's what she's saying. To survive physically and emotionally, you can't afford to listen to what people say -- all that matters is what they do.
    There are cases where a person can 'do' wonderful things for you, but with a price. How do you figure that into the equation? Certain intentions can leave a person feeling diminished by an action that would strengthen them coming from a more pure intent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Sometimes intuition.. the gut instinct about someone is more than the sum of detail, context and inconsistency, surely? For me it is about discovering something that is not visible within any individual factor but is right when the whole is considered. Am I using mysticism when I do that? I dont know...
    Might this have something to do with what happens in terms of your interaction with the person? People can come together in ways that seems to be greater than the sum of their parts, while others come together and diminish one another. Perhaps that invisible, indefinable factor has to do with their impact on you personally?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  6. #86
    Senior Member meshou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    We know that they act this way because we know something deeper about them, so we dont need to look at their words or actions to see it, if we can Intuitively read them.
    I tell you with absolute sureness my mother never wanted to hurt me. However, she's fucking nuts.

    You can intuit she believes she is a good mother, and she wants the best for her precious children. She's very convicted on that front. Absolutely FULL of good intentions, not a bad one in her.

    There are some people for whom intent emphatically does not matter. Those are people I wish to avoid.
    Let's do this thing.

  7. #87
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshou View Post
    I tell you with absolute sureness my mother never wanted to hurt me. However, she's fucking nuts.

    You can intuit she believes she is a good mother, and she wants the best for her precious children. She's very convicted on that front. Absolutely FULL of good intentions, not a bad one in her.

    There are some people for whom intent emphatically does not matter. Those are people I wish to avoid.
    Perhaps the difficulty lies in trying to apply such standards to people who have mental issues of some sort? If people are not well, one can't necessarily apply tests of intent, actions and such in quite the same way. By which I mean, if someone is not aware of their actions, competent to understand the impact, should we assess them using intuition or by way of their actions measured against a human "standard"?

    -Geoff

  8. #88
    Senior Member meshou's Avatar
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    Well, the problem is that people who are fucking nuts don't wear hats or something so you know who they are. You can be pretty sure, however, they're making a beeline for you if you were raised by one.

    I have a pretty good "ohshitrun" alarm now, but I used to have absolutely none.
    Let's do this thing.

  9. #89
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshou View Post
    Well, the problem is that people who are fucking nuts don't wear hats or something so you know who they are.
    That would be cool, if they did. Those conical hats in different colours, like gnomes. With the colour matching different degrees/types of nuts.

    -Geoff

  10. #90
    Senior Member Alienclock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshou View Post
    It is more of a personal standard for me and those close to me than a statement of how everyone should be considered. It's not a standard I'd hold anyone I didn't deeply care about to.

    In any case, yes, I would rather be around a bad man who does good things than a good man who does bad ones. 'Cause duh.
    I totally agree with this. I think in the end you have to figure what effect the person has on you, and whether or not you feel its worth it... A person who intends to help you feel better and keeps poking you in a raw cut is infinitely less bearable than one who doesn't give a puck and lets you heal in peace...
    Quote Originally Posted by meshou View Post
    I tell you with absolute sureness my mother never wanted to hurt me. However, she's fucking nuts.

    You can intuit she believes she is a good mother, and she wants the best for her precious children. She's very convicted on that front. Absolutely FULL of good intentions, not a bad one in her.

    There are some people for whom intent emphatically does not matter. Those are people I wish to avoid.
    For me a persons intent is a second thought.. Its kind of what I reflect on after I get away from a situation, the other persons intent only comes into play when I am in a relaxed state, and am looking back at a situation...

    All people have one intent - which is to feel better. So many people who do horrible things just want to be loved, they just want to finally be understood, they want relief from whatever they are suffering... In the end, in the pursuit to feel good, what do they do? They torture, they maim, they attack, they spit in your lunch while preparing it... cause they are overworked, underpaid, their parent just died, their kid is on drugs... whatever...

    Of course, if we are thinking about the overall well being of larger groups of people... people who do better things are better for the population overall. And people who mean well (well intentioned but oh so wishing they could stop the pain that is their life) but can't help but to curse people out and do illegal things is considered worse for the population.

    I like to give people a break if they are well intentioned... But when you are authentic, and doing hurtful things to others who gives a muck? I don't... and I don't want to be near you. I would rather be around a person who is just selfish, and generally does not do horrid stuff... So I am caring about me in that case... Which is generally important.

    I think an interesting question is are all actions selfish? I do believe they are. I also believe that if you don't care about yourself, and constantly give to people who are not interested in alleviating their pain without hurting others... then you probably have a messed up sense of self. The intention only matters when the person is willing to look at their actions, and think about the effect it has on others... So if this person, whose intent is only to love... and be loved... cause ever since they were little they whatever... and their mommy whatever... keeps locking people up in their dungeon... I don't care about their intention...

    Care if you care, but in the end if its not reciprocated, and a person is not willing to change a hurtful behavior, forgetaboutit! Of course the nutso locking people in his basement had a mom that used him as an astray etc... I dare say most monsters had some kind of "monstrous" upbringing... Every person I ever met that was a hurtful monster has had a horrid upbringing and been a horrid crybaby about it.

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