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[NF] Do you care how others feel?

wyrdsister

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Be fair: He might be Spock or Data. We don't know.

I just find it hilarious when NTs profess to have no feelings or emotions, or that they don't use them at all in their lives. It's ridiculous.

IMHO.
 

Eileen

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I just find it hilarious when NTs profess to have no feelings or emotions, or that they don't use them at all in their lives. It's ridiculous.

IMHO.

No, I totally agree. But this one might be Spock.
 

Noel

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I guess this is an NF type topic.
How much do you care how others feel?

Everyone is Neutral in my book. I don't know them or anything about their situation. "I'd rather have good neighbours than bad ones" to go dnd on your ass.

In light of the idea that you can't control how others feel, how much should you really care?

I think, in Buddhist teachings, that compassion / detachment are not mutually exclusive. No one can really know what your feeling. It seems all we can do for others is show an infinite amount of compassion for our aloneness.
 

Totenkindly

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another example of something like this is when those 30-odd students got shot up in Virginia. half the people on my msn contacts list put an emoticon flower in front of their screen name. "if you don't you're heartless. it's just respectful." they said. aren't those Virginia Tech students too busy being DEAD to go on msn? also, i don't think anyone i know has any of the friends or family of those students on their contacts list. they will NEVER see that BEAUTIFUL, PIXELATED flower that they SLAVED for days and nights to put up onto the screen. it's so insincere, it's just hilarious. if anyone honestly cares, then they should send a personal letter to someone in Virginia. people die every day, so they might as well leave that flower up forever then. those flowers can kiss my ass.

I used to feel that way (that it was such a load of crap), but now that I'm an older fart, I made some room for that sort of behavior in my thinking:

1. Yeah, true, it's sort of like 9/11: Our lives are so numb and commonplace that when something dramatic happens, we sometimes identify with it in order to feel something and have some sort of passion in our lives -- hence, getting heavily emotionally invested in people we would have never met or cared about outside of the tragedy. Still, we all have to start somewhere. That's not a bad place to be, we just have to move past that level of engagement.

2. I think the personal letter would be a great thing, better than the flowerrs. But the flowers is easier and less messy, since you don't have to engage emotionally with people you don't know, who are grieving. It's like holding up a support sign from a distance, rather than being the one whose shoulder everyone is crying on; that's not an easy place to be, we all usually begin as sign holders, and some of us eventually do move past that.

3. It's easy to see why something from another person is hypocritical, while we ourselves do nothing whatsoever. At least they're doing something and trying to engage, even if the efforts are misguided.

4. Impersonal shows of compassion are still better than nothing. It would still move me to see people who don't know me offering some impersonal show of support (meaning I "registered on their radar, and they took a moment for me"), rather than being met with complete silence. That's pretty darn lonely. I only expect the few people who I have intimate relationships with to engage me on a deep or meaningful level; I don't require that nor maybe even want it from people I don't even know.

Just some ideas.

Basically, the point is to be authentic when you do something. If you don't know someone well, but just feel empathy for them in general, it's perfectly fine to do/say something more on the surface to show support, then move on with life. And if you know someone well, it's appropriate to go much further. It's the people who should be intimately involved and who blow off the suffering person that annoy me, as well as the people who don't know the suffering person from a rat's ass and somehow think it is their job to suddenly be their deepest confidante.
 

s0532

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I guess this is an NF type topic.
How much do you care how others feel?
In light of the idea that you can't control how others feel, how much should you really care?

Frankly, I enjoy caring about others... But there are times when I decide NOT to give a darn. Actually, I am leaning towards the understanding that in caring about my own feelings, its best to focus on them, and let others manage their own emotions...

Sometimes it feels like being a bad guy, but it seems important to staying happy.

Any ideas, thoughts, feelings?
How much do you care?
:heart:

Topic is befuddling. Which may sound disingenuous in a "huh I'm a T" sort of way, but thas not what I mean.

For starters, aside from extremes, how does one quantify depth of caring? are we talkin pure empathy or does another kind of emotional reaction count? Are we talking about attempting to soothe pain in others, partake in their joy- take action in some way or just respond internally.

I think I can actually be quite sensitive to emotional states of others, ie can detect how and why they may feel as they do. Furthermore, believe anyone is always entitled to their emotions. However, rarely feel responsible, and lean distinctly toward observer role. If interesting, caring is made manifest mostly by discussion and analysis of emotion-laden situations- that is when and how I mirror and validate.

Actually, that makes me sound like a robot, not what I intended, but there it is.
 

proteanmix

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I feel like I have this constant and general low-level caring about people that is aimed at no particular person, but all who come into contact with me benefit from. When I say low-level I mean it's a there in the moment caring about what they feel, how they're feeling that moves on when I leave their presence. Like if I see a person fall, I instantly think are they alright because right then I do care that they're not hurt.

I'll never forget when I had an asthma attack my freshman year of college and one of my classmates noticed my breathing was erratic and walked with me to the medical center. I'd never spoken to her before and here she was with me. Stuff like that inspires me to be more caring and responsible towards others, even if it's just a momentary thing.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I think, in Buddhist teachings, that compassion / detachment are not mutually exclusive. No one can really know what your feeling. It seems all we can do for others is show an infinite amount of compassion for our aloneness.
That makes a great deal of sense to me. Compassion requires clarity and strength. Too much empathy results in the same weakness and confusion as the one you empathize with.

I have a particular dichotomy with empathy and detachment. There are times that I really absorb whatever emotions are around me and have to minimize my interactions with people. It's just way too much information and way too exhausting. When there is need for it, it is possible for me to switch it off and can at times feel absolutely nothing. I find the moments of attachment provide me with some shared information and motivation to help, while the detachment is what makes it possible to act on those motivations.
 

Eileen

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That makes a great deal of sense to me. Compassion requires clarity and strength. Too much empathy results in the same weakness and confusion as the one you empathize with.

I have a particular dichotomy with empathy and detachment. There are times that I really absorb whatever emotions are around me and have to minimize my interactions with people. It's just way too much information and way too exhausting. When there is need for it, it is possible for me to switch it off and can at times feel absolutely nothing. I find the moments of attachment provide me with some shared information and motivation to help, while the detachment is what makes it possible to act on those motivations.

I totally relate, toonia. This is very much my experience.
 
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I just find it hilarious when NTs profess to have no feelings or emotions, or that they don't use them at all in their lives. It's ridiculous.

IMHO.

I find it hilarious when NFs say "IMHO" when they're talking to NTs.
It's like the NF cry of sanctuary.

I don't really care how others feel in most cases, although I can feel empathy if something happens to someone that I can imagine would suck if I was in their shoes. It's not a strong feeling of empathy, it's more like a simple acknowledgment. If they're an SO or close friend or in my immediate family, I care how they feel as long as I think it's a valid feeling.
 

spartan26

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I do care about people. Over the years I've learned what are the kind of things that make people tick. I can often dissect what they're saying to get to the root of what's bothering them. Sometimes even revealing something to them about what may be going on inside of themselves. I suppose it's an analytical NT thing.

I can be around suffering sadness and anger without it changing my mood or being scared off by it. I don't know how empathetic I truly am though. I don't try to draw anything out of anybody. I sometimes want to know what people see in me. A lot of people will reveal deep personal stuff to me, like literally confessions of breaking all of the ten commandments, and I never do anything for them. Until right now I never even wondered was I supposed to. I don't know why they do this. I've never asked. Not even sure of the repeat customers. Though I've gotten a few "I've never told this to anyone before…"'s.

If there's a natural inclination I think it's to alleviating discouragement. I'll generally let people rant or boo hoo but when they talk about giving up, it's hard for me to not say something to point out that things aren't as shitty as they may appear. My only pithy saying is the Chinese proverb of "the man who walks a mile a day will eventually make it around the world." I'm not really a hang in there, things will get better kind of guy but I will point out alternate methods or make suggestions or try to convince people it's not over yet.
 

SolitaryWalker

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I totally relate, toonia. This is very much my experience.


Well, I must say that this is very common for Fe/Ti. I am not trying to pigeonhole people here, but many INFJs will report this and on the typological level this is quite easy to explain too.
 

meshou

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My natural inclination is to care quite a bit. However, I believe that what people do matter much more than what I or they feel. Good intentions do not matter, good feelings do not matter, whether you do good in the world is what matters.
 

SolitaryWalker

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I care quite a bit. However, I believe that what people do matter much more than what I or they feel. Good intentions do not matter, good feelings do not matter, whether you do good in the world is what matters.


What if you never had a chance to do good, yet you would if you had one. A can have better intentions than B and do less good because he had less opportunities, yet would actually do more good than B if they had an equal amount of opportunities. According to the way you make assessments, B would be judged morally superior to A, yet had both been given equal opportunities A would do more good deeds than B.
 

Geoff

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Hmm, the thought doesn't count for much if nothing is done with it, seems to me.

Sure one can self-assess oneself as "superior", but frankly, what is the point if you are the only one who knows or can see it due to a lack of actions/impact?

-Geoff
 

SolitaryWalker

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Hmm, the thought doesn't count for much if nothing is done with it, seems to me.

Sure one can self-assess oneself as "superior", but frankly, what is the point if you are the only one who knows or can see it due to a lack of actions/impact?

-Geoff

Seems to me that one can be good without doing good, it is just that we cant recognize that he is good untill he shows us that he is by doing good.

Good deeds are an entailment of a good intrinsic mindset.

Think about a thug who beats up the gang leader for his personal amusement who then is praised by the rest of the group for knocking out a tyrant. He did do a good thing, as people dont have to walk on eggshells in the group anymore, yet again he didnt care about people at all and is praised as magnanimous for all the wrong reasons.

Or how a philistine who regularly donates to charity not because he cares about the poor, but so everybody in the community can think well of him? Or how about a legalistic preacher who is preaching good morals because he is doing what he is supposed to. Had he been supposed to preach persecution of the Jews, he would be doing that too just because his motives are always doing what he is supposed to?

Clearly you could do good deeds that you can well take credit for, but you can not take credit for good qualities of character that we tend to associate those good deeds with. For example, you can do a good deed by giving to the poor, and this is a good deed because this will help them, but if you did this because you wanted for others to think well of you for that and for no other reason, than you can not take credit for being compassionate as we associate compassion with giving to the poor. You only get credit for having such a quality of character if this is what drives you to act. The reason for the action is what determines its moral worth and not the outcome it produces.
 

Geoff

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Seems to me that one can be good without doing good, it is just that we cant recognize that he is good untill he shows us that he is by doing good.

Good deeds are an entailment of a good intrinsic mindset.

Think about a thug who beats up the gang leader for his personal amusement who then is praised by the rest of the group for knocking out a tyrant. He did do a good thing, as people dont have to walk on eggshells in the group anymore, yet again he didnt care about people at all and is praised as magnanimous for all the wrong reasons.

Or how a philistine who regularly donates to charity not because he cares about the poor, but so everybody in the community can think well of him? Or how about a legalistic preacher who is preaching good morals because he is doing what he is supposed to. Had he been supposed to preach persecution of the Jews, he would be doing that too just because his motives are always doing what he is supposed to?

By which you are pushing at "does true Altruism exist", or are all actions ultimately selfish?

On an evolutionary basis, altruism should be virtually impossible, so if we are to value self worth by way of "good" actions that have no ulterior/selfish motives we are probably wasting our time. Or at least, we will identify so few occasions, and so few people, that we might as well dispense with it as impractical.

By the way, "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins is a good read on this subject (if a little dated now).

-Geoff
 

meshou

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It is more of a personal standard for me and those close to me than a statement of how everyone should be considered. It's not a standard I'd hold anyone I didn't deeply care about to.

In any case, yes, I would rather be around a bad man who does good things than a good man who does bad ones. 'Cause duh.
 

SolitaryWalker

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It is more of a personal standard for me and those close to me than a statement of how everyone should be considered. It's not a standard I'd hold anyone I didn't deeply care about to.

In any case, yes, I would rather be around a bad man who does good things than a good man who does bad ones. 'Cause duh.

But you certainly would not want to make friends with the bad man who just did a one good thing because then you'd know that in the future he would end up doing more bad than good.
 
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