[MBTI General] INFJs Attempting to Understand ENTPs Behavior

[Synarch]

Turtle-ing is the worst! Nothing scares me more and makes me more difficult and annoying to be near. Guess it makes me feel like anything could happen and I'd be totally blindsided so I'd better get ready for awfulness. That adds more stress and the turtle up feedback loop just grows. What makes you need to turtle? Is it not wanting to burden other people? Needing time to figure out a solution alone? Protection from others seeing you vulnerable? This was a huge problem in my last relationship...

I just get a feeling like I won't be able to handle everything as it happens, so I withdraw into my shell until the storms die down.

How do you become difficult? Argumentative? Grouchy? Withdrawn? Contrary? Do you realize when you are doing it? What does it feel like when you start getting that way?

Argumentative. Provocative. Capricious. Yes, I realize it, but I often feel out of control of my emotions. It feels like losing control of myself and like everything has turned dark and cold.

I find men in general are more tempted to multitask, but especially Ts when stressed and manic. But how do people get you face to face or one on one on the phone if you are all locked away in your head?

Good question. I don't really know. I think they have to wait for me sometimes while being calm, patient, and non-judgmental. A lot of times I want to know I can complain without making things worse between us. I feel like I have to get my bad feelings out of me.

 

[Fidelia]

For the last one, do you ever state that to the person? I think that would help incredibly. Just as I tend to forget to tell people that they are helping just by listening to me vent and get rid of the debris so I can start finding solutions, I think that would be an easy one to assume they know but which the other person would benefit from having verbalized.

 

[Synarch]

For the last one, do you ever state that to the person? I think that would help incredibly. Just as I tend to forget to tell people that they are helping just by listening to me vent and get rid of the debris so I can start finding solutions, I think that would be an easy one to assume they know but which the other person would benefit from having verbalized.

No. It would help, though. This is the way in which communication is so important. I do have this tendency to want people to anticipate what I feel and want. But, this is obviously unfair because no one can read minds. I just appreciate when someone naturally knows what I want.

 

[Fidelia]

Don't we all! There is nothing I appreciate more in someone, than doing me the compliment of understanding me without me having to ask them to do certain things for me.

Any other common communication things like that which either side could benefit from having verbalized, in your experience? You have an advantage in not only having INFJ friends, but also a SO whom you've probably had to pound some of this out with by trial and error (or maybe in the past with other INFJs?).

 

[Synarch]

Don't we all! There is nothing I appreciate more in someone, than doing me the compliment of understanding me without me having to ask them to do certain things for me.

Any other common communication things like that which either side could benefit from having verbalized, in your experience? You have an advantage in not only having INFJ friends, but also a SO whom you've probably had to pound some of this out with by trial and error (or maybe in the past with other INFJs?).

1. Make up quick.
2. Be demonstrative and expressive.
3. Keep things laid back and fun.

 

[Fidelia]

Advice for INFJs you are saying?

And for you dealing with us, what are the cliff notes on that you have gleaned?

 

[Synarch]

Advice for INFJs you are saying?

And for you dealing with us, what are the cliff notes on that you have gleaned?

That was advice for dealing with INFJ's, but it's probably good advice anyway. Also, it always helps to be affectionate.

 

[Fidelia]

Totally agree with those three points! The other one is be willing to listen. Demonstrative is ever so appreciated!

What is the worst case scenario of how both parties are likely to react to friction between them? ENTP turtling and INFJ probing the turtle shell? INFJ sucking it up and then spewing frustration in a moment of despair and anger?

 

[jenocyde]

1. What upsets them and what are the symptoms? What is the best course of action for the offender to take when they are upset?
Symptoms of me being upset: I tell you. What to do to make it better: own up to it if you are wrong, or explain your actions rationally if I'm wrong. What makes me upset? asking me questions and not listening to the answer; harping on the same subjects over and over again especially if they are easily fixed; and dishonesty, if even for the sake of harmony.


2. How would you best get close to one? Do they have a system of gates or layers like INFJs or is it a different security system altogether?
Light hearted banter. If I can see that you are an easy going person who likes to laugh, there are no gates or barriers. If you are an emotional vampire, you won't get past my cold, icy stare. If you are somewhere in between, it just takes time. The more time you hang around, the closer we will be, by default.

3. What makes them happiest?
Learning something new or discovering something, music, laughter, mutual understanding

4. What do they value most in a friend?
Honesty, Loyalty, Open Mind, Optimism

Right. I have to try hard to pay attention to subtle things, which are always hard for me to spot. That's why I do better in groups. More input. I'll ride the coattails of more sensitive people and apply my more direct Fe.

I also expect people to understand that I care for them until further notice. I have to remember to be attentive because I know this is important to maintaining relationships. I am pretty bad at maintenance sometimes, but it helps if I am around physically since I tend to show my love spontaneously.

I find it easy to pick people, but only trust a few of these. Opposite approach.

This, plus 90% of everything else he wrote.

 

[entropie]

1. What upsets them and what are the symptoms? What is the best course of action for the offender to take when they are upset?
Rigid Thinking, a judgement call when there is no need for such a thing, slow drivers.
The best course is always to appeal to reason. If the person is reasonable. If not, good luck.

2. How would you best get close to one? Do they have a system of gates or layers like INFJs or is it a different security system altogether?
Just be yourself and then it works or it doesnt. No other truth than that

3. What makes them happiest?
Learning something new, music, funny pictures, having a nice meal and then to chill together after a hard day of work, playing online games together and the most important of all: go swimming with them (ok thats subjective )

4. What do they value most in a friend?
humour, a generous heart and a wise mind

 

[Fidelia]

Thanks for joining in. Anything else from your perspective, Jenocyde? I wonder if the dynamics change or not because you are female...

I expect that our tendancy to revisit problems after thinking them over would get on your nerves. Would it be better to delay the initial discussion even when there's something clearly wrong so that we can get it done with in one fell swoop?

 

[Fidelia]

Also what do you define as emotional vampirism? Is that neediness? Being a drama queen? Being unreasonable and non-rational? Can you give any examples? Even if we agree on a term, how it plays out may be defined differently.

 

[entropie]

Yaya, jenocyde this jenocyde that

have fun -.-

*knots his death knot*

 

[Fidelia]

Patience Entropie! I take awhile to post something and in the meantime you've posted. I'll get to you. You've just answered things quite comprehensively and fairly consistently with what I've heard so far. I'll think up something though if it would make you feel better...

 

[entropie]

no, go away !

 

[entropie]

I mean I am fine, you do go on here

I couldnt participate in the convo even if I wanted to

 

[BlahBlahNounBlah]

Also what do you define as emotional vampirism? Is that neediness? Being a drama queen? Being unreasonable and non-rational? Can you give any examples? Even if we agree on a term, how it plays out may be defined differently.

"Scenes" in public.


And emotion used to manipulate. I'm good at knowing if it's fake. If it's real, then I'm only concerned.

 

[jenocyde]

Aww, are you feeling neglected, Ent? Somehow, I think you'll get over it.

Fidelia - I just had a super long convo with Amargith on our walls about ENFP emo vampire and rehashing - you should read it. But the basic thing is if a problem comes up, bring it to attention and deal with it, then just move on. Dwelling on the past is no good. Also, I think ENTP men and women are very similar, except maybe for what we look for in partners. I can't speak for all of us, though.

 

[Fidelia]

Oh well then. No problems there. I don't care for public scenes or manipulative people either... Although, I think some Ts interpret emotion often as being used to manipulate which maybe isn't. What is your barometer for measuring fake emotion?

 

[jenocyde]

Yeah, and what BlahBlah said.