[Fi] Issues you have with Fi types

[CzeCze]

I just can't believe she said that out loud. And then adding the "I'm sorry I told you that"? Priceless!

I know right??? W.T.F.

That entire dating fiasco was Epic. Fail.

I cannot tell you how deeply and almost viscerally it bothered me when she said that 'I don't tell everyone everything/Some things I don't tell anyone' etc. etc. etc.

Right there I should have called it. Time of death: when reality hit.

That points to one of the reasons I cut off all contact with her. At the end of the day, she made it impossible to build any kind of functional relationship with her, to know her, to have her know me.

I think at the level of true self and intimacy she was comfortable with we could have functioned as the surly cashier at Dunkin' Donuts and a quiet semi-regular customer.

Anywhoo, in our hobbled together Fi fiasco, everyday someone was getting hurt or angry or both (usually me), and we could NOT communicate. She was so incredibly hypersensitive she would literally jump in when I was in the middle of telling her something and she would read it as a personal attack and say, "Well that's YOUR fault because etc. etc." FAIL.

Fi (some unhealthy) squared! What a doozy that was. So intense, so draining. I think she was used to people walking all over her and taking from her emotionally, but as another Fi dom and a "giver" (oh I freaking hate that term) she ended up sucking the life out of me.

Troubled Fi needs, and needs, and needs like nobody's business and it will never be satisfied.

BTW, people, if your Fi is THAT hypersensitive about protecting your "core self" you can't be real with others, you should NOT be in a relationship or dating anyone else. It will not work.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

It's so nice to hear that guys aren't the only ones with intimacy issues.




I mean...uh...that sucks. (It does suck though, hope she didn't turn you off INFPs because that's some pretty f.cked up behaviour. From what I've heard, anyway. Which is one side of the story. Not that I'm saying you're lying. Ok I'll stop talking now.)

 

[CzeCze]

Now you're calling me a liar!?!?!? How DARE YOU?!??!

:runs crying, wailing, etc. x2:

Lololol. Okay I'll stop now.

Please take into consideration the fact you're in Australia and I am still up talking to you (I'm talking about time difference, not bias).

Now, everything I've said so far as to what she has actually said and did is true. Of course she has her own side of it. But, personally I think it would be punctuated with her mitigating filter to absolve herself of full responsibility. Because accepting the impact of her actions and how much she hurt me would be too much for her to handle. That is also Fi at work. I think. Or just selfishness and cowardice. Everyone has limits but if you get wrapped up in your own Fi you no longer notice or really care if you hurt other people, you're simply at capacity. You're overwhelmed and you concentrate on yourself. I think you get numb.

Anywhoo, no, I actually do not hate INFPs or or hold a grudge against the type. I dated an INXP prior and an INFP afterwards and I will most likely, for better or worse, date more INFPs. She was a really extreme case of unhealthy/immature INFP/Fi. I also have INFP friends who I really like. Sharing Fi really does help immensely in understanding the other person or feeling comfortable with them, it can feel like a real *connection* and all the usual criticisms stated about Fi seeming selfish, erratic, cold, etc. (in a healthy Fi dom who can communicate relatively ok) they are not problems in the relationship.

If you can take the (hyper) sensitivity out of Fi and/or support it well with other functions, it's all gravy. It makes the Fi-dom truly strong, caring and with great integrity. The person is passionate about life and things they care about, not getting passionate as far as being mercurial, moody, throwing tantrums, etc. In a shared healthy Fi/Ne relationship both people can feel freedom and/or ease because you know you are free to fully let both Ne and Fi come out to play, and in that sense, yourselves.

Oh - and yeah, I take it back, I guess even as another Fi dom I can find a lot of reasons to criticize it! LOL.

But again, really, I'd love to hear what Fe doms think about it. I know it's been touched on a little bit in some other threads but I want moar!

 

[JivinJeffJones]

Please take into consideration the fact you're in Australia and I am still up talking to you (I'm talking about time difference, not bias).

Thanks, this forum goes through a boring patch while you lot are all sleeping, and when you all get up again and start posting we're all ready for bed. Most inconvenient!

Everyone has limits but if you get wrapped up in your own Fi you no longer notice or really care if you hurt other people, you're simply at capacity. You're overwhelmed and you concentrate on yourself. I think you get numb.

Yeah I really hear you on that, and I've tried to explain that to Fe-users irl but they don't really get it (though maybe the fact they were Fe users was unrelated, dunno). It's like you've just stumbled out of the smoking rubble of the Twin Towers on Sept 11, and staggered home only to have your housemate get pissed off at you for not getting any milk while you were out. Okay that's an extreme exaggeration, but similar principle. You just don't care. You can't, almost. In another time and place you probably would.

 

[Snow Turtle]

I barely interact with FP users but from memory. My only problem is when Fi decides to stomp it's foot down on an issue without further exploration. Where I then recoil because it seems like a bad idea to go forward, uncertain of what would happen if I were to push arguments ahead.

Fi's alright. I've got no problem as long as it roughly correlates with my own values. Thankfully since Fi is a feeling function, more people are concerned about minding their own business, being generally considerate so no major clashes.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Necessary Disclaimer: If anything mentioned here makes you feel bad, I clearly didn't mean it, nor will it necessarily apply to you personally. Anything I say is purely based on experience, thoughts on my experiences, and some plausible explanations using Typology theory. None of the following is a judgment on your existence. Have a wonderful day!

The person with Fi as their primary decision making function can, at their worst, be able to justify any type of behavior as long as they are being "true to oneself." The classic "Whateva, I do what I want" mentality that can lead them into trouble, ostracism, and eventually can put them into a reality that really does not exist outside of their own perspective. This is how they can lose friends, justify losing said friends, and generally distancing themselves from others.

Some can have a sensitivity to criticism that can discourage real honesty, in favor of preserving inner harmony instead. I have known one in particular that will not take the blame or responsibility for any of her actions simply because that realization of personal fault would damage her self esteem and damage her ability to justify her behavior.

Also, when I was in the Natural Helpers program at school [sort of like a peer mediation group], upon looking back at the types that comprised a majority of the Fi users, their biggest obstacle toward being an effective listener and mediator was a tendency to reframe others' problems as analogous to their own, which resulted in the person with problems feeling like they weren't being listened to [whereas my problem was typically not caring enough and trying to solve everybody's problems. They had a tough time with me because I was the only NTP in the group].

All I can really think of right now.

 

[Scott N Denver]

Scott N Denver - First I don't know if I'm up for having that many babies...

Dont worry, I was joking. I forgot specifically which one but there was some sort of NF appreciation thread where a poster said "I want to make babies with all of you", which is what I was thinking of when I wrote my quick line about that.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

Dont worry, I was joking. I forgot specifically which one but there was some sort of NF appreciation thread where a poster said "I want to make babies with all of you", which is what I was thinking of when I wrote my quick line about that.

That sounds like teh Pink. She's always getting e-impregnated by random forum happenings. The maternal instinct is strong with that one.

 

[fill]

I get along with FP's, but I do have issues with the unhealthy side of Fi, where one makes decisions based on a bias that may be correct, but is not always well thought out. Other sides that bother me is the enjoyment in the destruction of enemies. I knew an IXTJ with a huge amount of Fi who laughed at the prospect of an officer that had arrested him dying a few days later in a gun fight, while I thought, "Someone's lost their husband, father, or brother. How is that funny?"

I suppose Fe is flawed too; like the part that enables one to go so far for people that they forget to take care of themselves.

 

[heart]

So, for example, if you were thinking about something, you wouldn't find it as needful to have another person to bounce ideas off of to clarify or ignite your own thoughts?

No, at least not the same way that my INFJ has to talk his major decisions out, even working on the car, he has to talk to me about each and every step to help get it all straight in his mind.

At the time he's sharing, he often will say that he's not sure yet how he is feeling or thinking about the issue. There have been times I know how he will feel or react to a situation before he does.

For me, I tend to introspect deeply when I have a problem or a important decision to make. Then when I am very clear on how I feel/think about it, then I'll share with a very trusted person.

Would they want someone to come around if they were sick or feeling down or would they prefer their own space at that time?

I'd only want an initmate around. Anyone else I would find draining.

 

[fill]

No, at least not the same way that my INFJ has to talk his major decisions out, even working on the car, he has to talk to me about each and every step to help get it all straight in his mind.

Is this INFJ very intuitive? I hardly ever share my ideas with people, but not because it's tiring to do so, rather people don't understand them and incorrectly scrutinize them.

 

[heart]

Is this INFJ very intuitive? I hardly ever share my ideas with people, but not because it's tiring to do so, rather people don't understand them and incorrectly scrutinize them.

He shares his ideas mostly only with me. But I wasn't talking about his ideas and his intutions, I was talking about his feeling and thinking.

 

[Bubbles]

Personally, I find people are very draining. If I'm sick, I want to curl up into my blankets, have a cup of tea beside me, and hug a pillow close while I watch old movies on TV. I want to feel free to be in pain, not to have to worry about making other people comfortable. See, it's odd: I feel as though when other people are around I'm obligated to A) prove to them I'm feeling sick and not act even remotely fine (an irrational fear I've had since I was little, haha, that someone would think I was faking...) and B) I don't want to make you uncomfortable helping me, and I don't want to be helped unless I ask for it. I feel like I'm burdening people that way!

In regards to friends, I have days where I want to spend a ton of time with them, and other days where I groan because they're calling me and I just want alone time. I feel some relationships I have I am torn between telling someone straight-out "Hey, I wish you wouldn't call me so much, I never have much to say," and just ignoring the call itself. That sounds horrible, but I have one extremely persistent ENFP friend who does that constantly, and it's the only reason we're still friends. Needless to say, I find that stressful. Very stressful.

I do think FPs need to be able to verbalize their feelings. I went through a phase growing up where I just expected the world to be full of mindreaders who could interpret every little thing to come up with "oh hey she's sad today." People are flawed interpreters. It helps if you can say "Okay, when you did this I found myself really upset and hurt, I felt like you were pointing a finger at me," if you're trying to keep good relationships with people. And hey, you know what? That's using a bit of Fe, too. We're forgetting here that Fi users also have Fe. Now both are important to us, but clearly we need to develop some Fe to survive this crazy world of people, you know? Fi is more about inner harmony; Fe is more about creating a harmonic environment. Both are necessary to an FP, but don't expect Fe to come any easier than Fi. We gotta develop that.

 

[cascadeco]

Necessary Disclaimer: If anything mentioned here makes you feel bad, I clearly didn't mean it, nor will it necessarily apply to you personally. Anything I say is purely based on experience, thoughts on my experiences, and some plausible explanations using Typology theory. None of the following is a judgment on your existence. Have a wonderful day!

The person with Fi as their primary decision making function can, at their worst, be able to justify any type of behavior as long as they are being "true to oneself." The classic "Whateva, I do what I want" mentality that can lead them into trouble, ostracism, and eventually can put them into a reality that really does not exist outside of their own perspective. This is how they can lose friends, justify losing said friends, and generally distancing themselves from others.

Some can have a sensitivity to criticism that can discourage real honesty, in favor of preserving inner harmony instead. I have known one in particular that will not take the blame or responsibility for any of her actions simply because that realization of personal fault would damage her self esteem and damage her ability to justify her behavior.

Also, when I was in the Natural Helpers program at school [sort of like a peer mediation group], upon looking back at the types that comprised a majority of the Fi users, their biggest obstacle toward being an effective listener and mediator was a tendency to reframe others' problems as analogous to their own, which resulted in the person with problems feeling like they weren't being listened to [whereas my problem was typically not caring enough and trying to solve everybody's problems. They had a tough time with me because I was the only NTP in the group].

All I can really think of right now.

I think this is a great post.

The piece I bolded towards the end reminded me of a thread not too long ago (that Ne-Monster created? Where we figured out how 'high' our Fi was), where one of the bullet points for Fi was something to the effect of: "I know how someone else is feeling based on the feelings that I have/am experiencing" -- or something to that effect. Whereas the Fe was "I know how someone else is feeling based on how they are behaving and what they are saying". Basically, it implied the Fi-user looked within themselves, and their own feelings, to determine how the other was feeling, and the Fe looked to cues the other person gave them. (I'm sure I'm oversimplifying, but it ties to Jock's post)

Now I may be misunderstanding Fi, and what this exactly means, but when I read this, my reaction was, "Why on earth would MY feelings have anything to do with what the other person is feeling? We're two distinct people, with two distinct personalities, and we may have two utterly different responses/reactions to said situation. Therefore what I think/feel about it may have no bearing on what the other person is feeling." So when I'm listening to someone, I may do an inner dialogue to the effect of, "IF I were this person with their personality, I can understand why they would feel the way they do [even though I myself don't feel said emotion]." I never think or assume that my feelings correspond to the other persons.

Any Fi-users want to clarify this for me, and how the Fi user processes something, specifically with interpersonal dynamics and when it comes to listening and 'relating' to another?

 

[JivinJeffJones]

Thinking about it more, cheering-up visits (if done) are best done with a wing-man - someone who is good friends with both you and the INFP. That way the INFP won't feel that it's incumbent on them to keep the conversation flowing. The lack of pressure to contribute to the conversation will probably make them more likely to do so.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Oh, is that pic you? If so, I like it! If not, I still like it! Seriously, its a really good pic and has lots going on in it. I need a cool pic...I have some but they are all too big memory-wise

My avatar? No....that is Siouxsie Sioux

So, for example, if you were thinking about something, you wouldn't find it as needful to have another person to bounce ideas off of to clarify or ignite your own thoughts?

Would they want someone to come around if they were sick or feeling down or would they prefer their own space at that time?

Would they not care quite as much about other people's reactions to their thoughts/feeling/opinions/wishes?

What other ways might they not need people as much?

- I definitely like to bounce ideas off of people, but I need to formulate the ideas first, and that requires some time alone to think. Honestly, many people have a hard time seeing your vision & will be critical of something they just don't grasp, so that can make me hesitant unless I trust them. This is why I like to make sure I have an idea well thought out or even something tangible to show before I present it.

- I prefer my own space when I am sick. I have never been in the hospital, and I suspect even then I'd only want very close family around. I don't like being seen looking yucky, it injures my feminine vanity
I also don't like to be the center of attention, and having people drop by or send gifts might make me uncomfortable. I have my family that offers to run to the store for me if I need cough syrup or whatever, and I do the same for them.

- I definitely care about other people's reactions/feelings/etc. I strive for "win-win" situations and will make compromises to get there. Sometimes though, I may not back down because I feel they are simply wrong. I am not such a people pleaser that I will go against my sense of what is correct.

- I'm generally more independent than a lot of people. I may need people less often, but when I do, I require more from them at that moment.

So when I'm missing my friends that somehow translates in my head into the ultimate aloneness of the human condition and the transitory nature of life rather than just a simple indication that I need to get off my ass and go visiting. That's maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but not always. It certainly doesn't mean I've gone cold on my friends.

As such, it doesn't seem to me that I've chosen that hill to die on so much as that that's the hill I've been cornered on.

I'm laughing at the friend thing. Somehow, when I've withdrawn from friends, I have the feeling they are avoiding me, as if they should reach out to me to see why I am isolating myself . Also, when I am not in a people mood, I may feel I am doing everyone a favor by staying away. I don't like to subject people to my gloomy sides.

That is EXACTLY how it is with ENTPs for me. We are both pretty damn intimidated by the other.

Yep, me too.

I knew an IXTJ with a huge amount of Fi who laughed at the prospect of an officer that had arrested him dying a few days later in a gun fight, while I thought, "Someone's lost their husband, father, or brother. How is that funny?"

It feels like justice in the universe.

 

[Snow Turtle]

I think this is a great post.

The piece I bolded towards the end reminded me of a thread not too long ago (that Ne-Monster created? Where we figured out how 'high' our Fi was), where one of the bullet points for Fi was something to the effect of: "I know how someone else is feeling based on the feelings that I have/am experiencing" -- or something to that effect. Whereas the Fe was "I know how someone else is feeling based on how they are behaving and what they are saying". Basically, it implied the Fi-user looked within themselves, and their own feelings, to determine how the other was feeling, and the Fe looked to cues the other person gave them. (I'm sure I'm oversimplifying, but it ties to Jock's post)

Now I may be misunderstanding Fi, and what this exactly means, but when I read this, my reaction was, "Why on earth would MY feelings have anything to do with what the other person is feeling? We're two distinct people, with two distinct personalities, and we may have two utterly different responses/reactions to said situation. Therefore what I think/feel about it may have no bearing on what the other person is feeling." So when I'm listening to someone, I may do an inner dialogue to the effect of, "IF I were this person with their personality, I can understand why they would feel the way they do [even though I myself don't feel said emotion]." I never think or assume that my feelings correspond to the other persons.

Any Fi-users want to clarify this for me, and how the Fi user processes something, specifically with interpersonal dynamics and when it comes to listening and 'relating' to another?

Hm. From what I've seen the healthy Fi users engage in the place self within their shoe, and how would they react using their understanding of them. Where as the more unhealthy ones are more egocentric and believe that how they feel will be how other people will feel.

On the other hand I as an Fe user have made the mistake of assuming what the other person is feeling based solely on their appearance before realising oh wait... their behaviour may not reflect their inner feelings at all.

 

[Udog]

Being so Fi and feeling so much internally in a way (unless supported by a lot of Fe?) it 'maxes out' the persons resources and almost immobilizes the person's ability to extravert any more "emotion". And if you are very Fi dom and very sensitive, and don't have a lot of support (Fe/Ti/Te) to shield you from the effects of "pure Fi" and/or have had negative experiences with others in the past trampling your Fi, you will consciously withdraw further to protect yourself and that's on top of the unconscious internal orienting you already do.

Oh yes, agreed. Intuition is a terrible function to try and ground Fi, as they both are up in the stratosphere. The more sucked up into Fi I get, the harder it is for me to balance it with logic and perspective. It's like the second I'm most me is the second I become what I least wish to be.

Where we figured out how 'high' our Fi was), where one of the bullet points for Fi was something to the effect of: "I know how someone else is feeling based on the feelings that I have/am experiencing" -- or something to that effect.

[...]

Any Fi-users want to clarify this for me, and how the Fi user processes something, specifically with interpersonal dynamics and when it comes to listening and 'relating' to another?

It just happens, whether I choose it to happen or not. At its best, it's like I jump into the mud with the person, and then let them lean on me as we try and walk to safer ground together. So when an INFP starts to relate it to their own personal problems, it's the first step in trying to help someone. However, not all INFPs know that at some point the problem is about the other person, and are all too happy to leave the spotlight on themselves.

 

[Fidelia]

Thank you for the variety of responses. It still feels like it would be tricky to navigate, but at least I understand the thought processes better. Some of this I had an idea of what it the reaction was likely to be, but not why. Keep on!

 

[JivinJeffJones]

I think this is a great post.

The piece I bolded towards the end reminded me of a thread not too long ago (that Ne-Monster created? Where we figured out how 'high' our Fi was), where one of the bullet points for Fi was something to the effect of: "I know how someone else is feeling based on the feelings that I have/am experiencing" -- or something to that effect. Whereas the Fe was "I know how someone else is feeling based on how they are behaving and what they are saying". Basically, it implied the Fi-user looked within themselves, and their own feelings, to determine how the other was feeling, and the Fe looked to cues the other person gave them. (I'm sure I'm oversimplifying, but it ties to Jock's post)

Now I may be misunderstanding Fi, and what this exactly means, but when I read this, my reaction was, "Why on earth would MY feelings have anything to do with what the other person is feeling? We're two distinct people, with two distinct personalities, and we may have two utterly different responses/reactions to said situation. Therefore what I think/feel about it may have no bearing on what the other person is feeling." So when I'm listening to someone, I may do an inner dialogue to the effect of, "IF I were this person with their personality, I can understand why they would feel the way they do [even though I myself don't feel said emotion]." I never think or assume that my feelings correspond to the other persons.

I think when you start talking in terms of feelings you're digressing a bit from what he actually said. He said they tended to reframe other people's problems in such a way as to make them analogous to their own, not their feelings. Extreme eg "My dad is an alcoholic and my mom is a crack-whore. I haven't eaten in 3 days." "Ah, that's like the time I forgot to bring my lunch money to school. Let me tell you what I learned from that experience." That's my understanding of what he said, anyway. Which is a definite pitfall for INFPs in my experience, though more so for immature ones who assume more.

As for Fi-users imagining how they themselves would feel in a given situation and projecting it onto others, surely that's the only possible basis for empathy? Isn't that very nearly the definition of empathy? Are you saying that the Fi-user make assumptions based on role-playing themselves into the context, whereas Fe-users divorce the emotions from the context? Personally I start off by imagining how I would feel in the situation (based mostly on past experiences), but I'm well aware that the way I react to things is different from how most people react to things. Some situations which most people brush off stop me in my tracks, and other situations which devastate others don't affect me much at all. So though I start off by putting myself in someone else's shoes, I do evaluate how their reaction to the situation appears to differ from my imagined reaction to the situation. I'll still look for the emotions I expect even if they aren't being displayed, though. If someone has just lost their father and is showing cheerfulness I won't take that at face-value, for instance. Surely Fe-users operate similarly though? They don't just take evinced emotion at face-value, do they?