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[Fi] Issues you have with Fi types

BlackCat

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Hmm, since I suspect this thread is mostly for you, I'll address your post as others have.

I actually started this thread with her in mind and with ENTPs in mind. A lot of the ENTPs I've talked to and associated with on this forum are wary of Fi and don't understand it or trust it. I figured they'd be attacking this thread by now, I'm actually surprised.

Fidelia- Well yeah talking about stuff makes ideas come about. My process could be similar to that of House's, I have my idea totally formulated and clear in my head normally and I express it. Then with people's reactions and things that they say I add on to that and get more ideas. This is Ne at work, that's basically Ne 101. ;)
 

JivinJeffJones

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I actually started this thread with her in mind and with ENTPs in mind. A lot of the ENTPs I've talked to and associated with on this forum are wary of Fi and don't understand it or trust it. I figured they'd be attacking this thread by now, I'm actually surprised.

Yeah it's an odd thing with ENTPs. Of all the people I consistently like, they tend to be the ones who like me the least. I'm not sure why that is. :huh:
 

Fidelia

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Now, Mr JJJ, we are getting somewhere! Thanks ever so much for the comprehensive peek into your head!

As far as the last point where examples were requested by both you and BC goes, I am thinking specifically of a thread about Fe vs Fi and going to visit a sick friend. In my recollection, the sick person happened to be a Fe user who could not understand why the Fi user would not choose to visit. The Fi people argued vehemently that 1) It might make them uncomfortable 2) It's not fair for the Fe person to cohearse them into something they don't want to do 3) They'll show their love in their own way and that it's hardly a freely offered act of kindness if it's something expected of them by the Fe user. They also suggested that it might make the sick person uncomfortable or inconvenience them to be visited at that time because that is how they would feel personally if they were the sicky. I think that while no one wants to feel expected to do something they'd rather not, sometimes you have to give love in the way the other person wishes to receive it instead of the way that you find most instinctive to give. You should be expected to read minds, nor change who you are fundamentally, but what would it really hurt to go take the person some soup if it matters so blamed much to them? In the same way, I believe the Fe person should not impose their presence on the Fi person if they wish to be left alone, even though it might seem horribly uncaring and cold and even unpleasant to the Fe person to do so.

I do suspect that this thread was created for me out of issues brought up in the INFJ Pitfalls in Communication thread. However, I have the sneaking suspicion of late that I may be monopolizing conversations here and don't wish to wear out my welcome even though I have lots of questions. Please feel free to jump in, other people!
 

Synarch

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I actually started this thread with her in mind and with ENTPs in mind. A lot of the ENTPs I've talked to and associated with on this forum are wary of Fi and don't understand it or trust it. I figured they'd be attacking this thread by now, I'm actually surprised.

I don't understand it. But, this also means it doesn't bother me. :hug:

Yeah it's an odd thing with ENTPs. Of all the people I consistently like, they tend to be the ones who like me the least. I'm not sure why that is. :huh:

I have had a few INFP friends. They are often very creative and deep. Problem is, I have a very hard time relating to their sensitivity and I am afraid of pissing them off! INFP's can be so damn touchy that it makes me fear them. Ironic that one of the most insensitive types (ENTP), can be intimidated by the uber-sensitive INFP's. They just seem so certain about how things make them feel that...how could I argue with that??

(I admire INFP's in case that was not clear)
 

matilda

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So, for example, if you were thinking about something, you wouldn't find it as needful to have another person to bounce ideas off of to clarify or ignite your own thoughts?

it gets tiring. thinking of a reply. checking if this or that makes sense; everything has to be perfect, see.

when you're by yourself you can do anything you want-- lalalala go crazy.

Would they want someone to come around if they were sick or feeling down or would they prefer their own space at that time?

Sick/tired/feeling down: prefer own space. plus plus plus music.

Angry/pissed off (seldom): rant to closest friend. realize later on "gee, that wasn't much help".

"but it's what friends do, isn't it? isn't it?"

Would they not care quite as much about other people's reactions to their thoughts/feeling/opinions/wishes?

defense mechanism. think: "this is awesome. too bad they just don't get it."
 

Fidelia

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Thank you. That's all very useful!
 

matilda

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glad to help. :smile:

In my recollection, the sick person happened to be a Fe user who could not understand why the Fi user would not choose to visit.

honest answer: I have no idea. but i flee at the very hint of any sort of expectation aka pressure.

also, with every expectation there is an equal an opposite potential dissatisfaction/disappointment
 

JivinJeffJones

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(I liked matilda's answers on these, but I'll give my own perspective to increase your sample-size.)

So, for example, if you were thinking about something, you wouldn't find it as needful to have another person to bounce ideas off of to clarify or ignite your own thoughts?

With some things I would, but not with things which touch on deep values. For those I feel I can only really get to grips with them when I turn inward. I often find other people's perspectives can lead me off on tangents from what I'll later decide is the essence of the issue. Plus, when in conversation I tend to listen to what other people are saying rather than speaking myself, in an attempt to fully tease out their perspective. Sometimes hearing other people's thoughts do indeed offer useful and even decisive insights, but I usually still have to go away and make all the connections myself before I'll trust it. When it happens, it's more a happy bonus than something I'm counting on.

Would they want someone to come around if they were sick or feeling down or would they prefer their own space at that time?

Hmm, tricky. I guess I'd want some indication that I wasn't totally forgotten - an indication they cared. But I'd prefer my own space at the same time.

Would they not care quite as much about other people's reactions to their thoughts/feeling/opinions/wishes?

Sometimes the apparent lack of caring can be a defence mechanism as matilda suggested, but I agree that I dont care "quite as much" about other people's reactions to my thoughts/feeling/opinions/wishes because my values and sense of self are very independent. Which isn't to say they are exempt from persuasion and revision - they are just pretty immune to external pressures. Compared to most people anyway, I think.

However, I have the sneaking suspicion of late that I may be monopolizing conversations here and don't wish to wear out my welcome even though I have lots of questions.

Pff.
 

JivinJeffJones

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I have had a few INFP friends. They are often very creative and deep. Problem is, I have a very hard time relating to their sensitivity and I am afraid of pissing them off! INFP's can be so damn touchy that it makes me fear them. Ironic that one of the most insensitive types (ENTP), can be intimidated by the uber-sensitive INFP's. They just seem so certain about how things make them feel that...how could I argue with that??

Well that sucks! :doh:

I for one would rather ENTPs piss me off than avoid engaging with me. I'm pretty sure most INFPs would feel the same way.
 

Fidelia

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Excellent. Would a note or phone call be better than an actual visit when you are feeling unhappy or under the weather? Small gifts? Food items? Music to listen to? Comic books to while away your time with?

I think you are better at sticking to your guns and thinking independently than us in some regards. And yet on the outside you appear much more open to input than I think we are.
 

Synarch

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Well that sucks! :doh:

I for one would rather ENTPs piss me off than avoid engaging with me. I'm pretty sure most INFPs would feel the same way.

I know this one INFP guy and he's really talented and creative. But, it seems to be in a way that I don't have much to offer him. I think of myself as creative artistically, but he is way more talented. The only thing I have been able to provide him is with a refining of his ideas if he needs to narrow down choices. Plus, since he designs websites I will often talk about the marketing side of things to help narrow down options as well. I think this is helpful, but unlike with other less talented people, I don't feel as confident about my contribution since he seems on top of it.

Also, strangely, I find myself just agreeing with him a lot because he is so touchy and I don't want to say something wrong or betray myself as Machiavellian since he has a strong aversion to anything he views as... cynical or something. Very idealistic in a very personalized hard to argue way.
 

JivinJeffJones

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Sometimes the apparent lack of caring can be a defence mechanism as matilda suggested, but I agree that I dont care "quite as much" about other people's reactions to my thoughts/feeling/opinions/wishes because my values and sense of self are very independent. Which isn't to say they are exempt from persuasion and revision - they are just pretty immune to external pressures. Compared to most people anyway, I think.

I'd edit this in but I think you'd miss it. Jennifer edits her posts all the time and I only find out about it by accident when I do find out about it at all. Annoying!

I wanted to add that in cases where other people's reactions to my thoughts/feelings/opinions/wishes are negative, if I judge their reaction to be baseless given my action (or even just my intention sometimes) I'll let it slide without making much effort to correct any misunderstanding or offence. I do so because I've judged myself innocent of the charges and don't feel a need to take it any further. Sometimes I don't engage with their reaction because I'm busy examining it for validity, which can take some time. Even in those cases though if I feel they have a point I'm just as likely to castigate myself privately, feel awful, and take it no further as I am to apologize. This is a flaw in me which needs some work, though I'm far more likely to deal with these cases if I'm close to the person. The problem and strength of Fi is that, in its purist form, it's ultimately accountable only to itself. Fe is accountable to group standards, Te to what works, Ti to logic. That lack of accountablity is why INFPs are prone to going off the rails, but some rails are bad rails. ;)
 

Fidelia

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In that sense, it is one of the things that I think makes people mistake you for NTs sometimes.

I should warn you, I'm the worst offender for going back and editing without noting it at the bottom.

If you've got anything else, please continue. You are doing an excellent job.
 

Scott N Denver

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We're so cuddly that you want to make babies with us? All of us.

Has any of this conversation dealt with SFP's? They are Fi users too, and ISFP's are Fi doms.
 

BlackCat

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fidelia said:
Would they want someone to come around if they were sick or feeling down or would they prefer their own space at that time?
Excellent. Would a note or phone call be better than an actual visit when you are feeling unhappy or under the weather? Small gifts? Food items? Music to listen to? Comic books to while away your time with?

Like JJJ said this is tricky. Knowing that someone cares about my negative state is usually enough for me, because all I really care about is knowing that the other cares and not really material things or support (unless of course I need it and it's obvious that I do). I guess it just depends. If I'm obviously in need of support, do it. If I'm not really in need of support then I'd like to maintain my independence (this might be a male thing though).

A phone call would be cool for when I'm unhappy, or just any way to talk to you (the friend). When I'm feeling down I usually have my own way of dealing with things, which usually boils down to forgetting about my troubles and doing something with my friends, or preoccupying myself by myself with something that will distract me from the mood. This almost always works. I'll usually talk to a close friend about it too if it's something really bothering me that isn't something just negligible (I think that this means if they can relate to it... lol).

fidelia said:
However, I have the sneaking suspicion of late that I may be monopolizing conversations here and don't wish to wear out my welcome even though I have lots of questions.

Eh we have nothing better to do. Plus I like for my mind to be probed. :D
 

JivinJeffJones

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Excellent. Would a note or phone call be better than an actual visit when you are feeling unhappy or under the weather? Small gifts? Food items? Music to listen to? Comic books to while away your time with?

Personally I'd prefer a visit, even if at the time it might seem intrusive. At least one visit, with notes/phone-calls and further visits depending on the duration of the convalescence and/or the seriousness of the condition. Everyone's different though. I'd really only appreciate visits from close friends. Acquaintances coming to visit is the worst. If I were visiting an INFP I'd phone them first to ask if they wanted any specific books or something. Food is always welcome I guess, especially given the quality of hospital food. Music/comic books would depend on the person, but I think they'd appreciate the gesture even if it wasn't something that interested them especially. In all these cases it's the thought behind the gesture which is important, cliched though that sounds.
 

BlackCat

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Personally I'd prefer a visit, even if at the time it might seem intrusive. At least one visit, with notes/phone-calls and further visits depending on the duration of the convalescence and/or the seriousness of the condition. Everyone's different though. I'd really only appreciate visits from close friends. Acquaintances coming to visit is the worst. If I were visiting an INFP I'd phone them first to ask if they wanted any specific books or something. Food is always welcome I guess, especially given the quality of hospital food. Music/comic books would depend on the person, but I think they'd appreciate the gesture even if it wasn't something that interested them especially. In all these cases it's the thought behind the gesture which is important, cliched though that sounds.

Whoa whoa we're talking about hospital bound?

Well that changes everything...

But otherwise definitely agree with this post if it's in a hospital or I'm very sick.
 

Fidelia

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Scott N Denver - First I don't know if I'm up for having that many babies...

Good point about the SFPs. Unfortunately I don't know any well...or maybe any, so I don't know what I can contribute but I'd like to hear anything that you folks could add about that.

JJJ - I'm thinking only of you being a delicate shade of medium-deep turquoise in your spirits, not navy blue. Or maybe you have that achy flu, but aren't in the hospital. My normal reaction would be quickly dropping off lemons to make good getting well stuff with, or getting something they had run out of to save them having to leave the house, like gingerale for sick stomach or something and then leaving right away. But I'd only do that for someone I was close to. I'm not sure how much imposing you people would want and I'm naturally hyper-sensitive against any imposing myself in any way on any one if they show even the faintest signs of non-appreciation for it. See this is why we pussyfoot around you. We just aren't sure what you all want!
 

JivinJeffJones

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I know this one INFP guy and he's really talented and creative. But, it seems to be in a way that I don't have much to offer him. I think of myself as creative artistically, but he is way more talented. The only thing I have been able to provide him is with a refining of his ideas if he needs to narrow down choices. Plus, since he designs websites I will often talk about the marketing side of things to help narrow down options as well. I think this is helpful, but unlike with other less talented people, I don't feel as confident about my contribution since he seems on top of it.

Also, strangely, I find myself just agreeing with him a lot because he is so touchy and I don't want to say something wrong or betray myself as Machiavellian since he has a strong aversion to anything he views as... cynical or something. Very idealistic in a very personalized hard to argue way.

Ha, sounds like an awkward friendship. You'd probably find that he likes you just as much as you like him, and is probably just as intimidated by you as you are by him. I'm only guessing, of course. And projecting a bit in all likelihood.

Whoa whoa we're talking about hospital bound?

I thought she said something about that earlier. Probably my mistake.
 

BlackCat

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Ha, sounds like an awkward friendship. You'd probably find that he likes you just as much as you like him, and is probably just as intimidated by you as you are by him. I'm only guessing, of course. And projecting a bit in all likelihood.

That is EXACTLY how it is with ENTPs for me. We are both pretty damn intimidated by the other.
 
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