[MBTI General] INTJ:INFJ interactions

[sculpting]

I had forgetten this thread-it was from awhile ago. I think [MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION] had the right idea in her decsription of the small conflict I observed being a sign of more long term annoyance for this particular pair. The INTJ was quite blunt, very 8-ish, while the INFJ was quite soft and sweet for an INFJ in the hard sciences. They had a history of constant misunderstanding between them, that led to intense dislike from the INFJ and disregard and arrogance form the INTJ.

I have to say that outside of this pair, most INFJ-INTJ interactions I have observed, go really well. I know quite a few INTJ-INFJ couples who are very happy together! It could be an enneatype diff that has a big impact.

 

[sculpting]

I had forgetten this thread-it was from awhile ago. I think [MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION] had the right idea in her decsription of the small conflict I observed being a sign of more long term annoyance for this particular pair. The INTJ was quite blunt, very 8-ish, while the INFJ was quite soft and sweet for an INFJ in the hard sciences. They had a history of constant misunderstanding between them, that led to intense dislike from the INFJ and disregard and arrogance form the INTJ.

I have to say that outside of this pair, most INFJ-INTJ interactions I have observed, go really well. I know quite a few INTJ-INFJ couples who are very happy together! It could be an enneatype diff that has a big impact.

 

[Poki]

This is my experience as well. And as I'm usually conflict-avoidant, I usually let them think they won, but I'm secretly thinking "You're so hopeless!"

LOL...isnt this one of the defining factors of IJs? INTJ/INFJ would be 2 people sitting there thinking "your so hopeless".

 

[highlander]

One possible explanation that I can think of is that sometimes the INFJs 'Ni-based' understanding is quite vague even to themselves. When asked to explain, INFJs might suddenly realize they cannot verbalize or give reasons or evidence for their claim. They know "It just seems this way" and "It just feels like this" will not hold up, which will cause them to doubt the validity of their 'insight' and send them into an unconscious introspective loop. Sometimes no real answer ever comes out of it.

That makes complete sense. I used to have a great deal of difficulty trying to explain my reasons for things. I developed ways to logically justify my thinking to explain it to others. It was always done after the fact. Maybe I take this mode of operating for granted because I don't feel like it is quite as much of a problem anymore. Also, I'm much more vocal than I used to be, so maybe I've gotten better at expressing thoughts. The one big difference I can point to vs. what you said is that I don't doubt the validity of the insight if someone asks me a question. I have an urge to elaborate on or refine my thinking and also to help the other person understand where I am coming from. Otherwise, the original communication goes nowhere (as far as influence goes) and feels like it was wasted energy.

LOL...isnt this one of the defining factors of IJs? INTJ/INFJ would be 2 people sitting there thinking "your so hopeless".

I don't identify with this at all, so not all IJs.

 

[Eilonwy]

[MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION], what 21% said goes for me, too. All the hard facts that I've taken in have been converted to a general feeling of knowing, so I know I know, but cannot explain how I know at times. I sometimes have to work my way back through all the various connections before I get back to the core fact, and that can take time. Or sometimes, the core fact is lost to me and all I can give as an answer would be to say that I *think* I read it here or heard it there or it's related to this or that, which seems to be too vague and iffy for Te to rely on, so the conversation breaks down because I end up feeling I can't properly explain what I know in a concrete and timely fashion.

ETA: Also, if some fact I've put out there during the conversation is challenged, even if I know I know it, I will start to question it, because there may be possibilities I haven't thought of or looked into, and that adds another layer of wishy-washy, timey-wimeyiness to my part of the conversation that may cause it to break down. I might get frustrated with myself for not being able to immediately come up with the defense, and I might get frustrated with my convo partner for putting me in that position.

 

[Poki]

That makes complete sense. I used to have a great deal of difficulty trying to explain my reasons for things. I developed ways to logically justify my thinking to explain it to others. It was always done after the fact. Maybe I take this mode of operating for granted because I don't feel like it is quite as much of a problem anymore. Also, I'm much more vocal than I used to be, so maybe I've gotten better at expressing thoughts. The one big difference I can point to vs. what you said is that I don't doubt the validity of the insight if someone asks me a question. I have an urge to elaborate on or refine my thinking and also to help the other person understand where I am coming from. Otherwise, the original communication goes nowhere (as far as influence goes) and feels like it was wasted energy.



I don't identify with this at all, so not all IJs.

that just means your not IJ LMAO

 

[21%]

I have an urge to elaborate on or refine my thinking and also to help the other person understand where I am coming from. Otherwise, the original communication goes nowhere (as far as influence goes) and feels like it was wasted energy.

This is so Te!

Most of the time I don't feel the need to convince anyone of anything. I feel like my own logic system is internally consistent and it helps guide me and has nothing to do with the outside world. My energy tends to go to thinking about and 'shepherding' emotions.

Sometimes I even feel that my feelings are more rational than my thoughts...

 

[Lexicon]

One of my closest friends is an INTJ, & extremely valuable to me.

We definitely have communication problems, sometimes. It's funny, though. We'll be on the same page about something, but, idk, blame it on the TeFi/FeTi language barrier.. we'll totally miss it. Learn to get around that, and you'll communicate just fine with one another, 99% of the time. I notice that we can both be sensitive to perceived judgements the other party is making, when there may not be any judgement taking place. INTJ's tend to speak in a very absolute manner, and seemingly oversimplify topics of discussion that my Ti sees so many other vital elements hooked together in- which, if I feel strongly about the topic for whatever reason, can lead to some distress about feeling misunderstood.. (sometimes I'll have to stop myself from giving in to kneejerk emotional reactions, like, does he really think I'm this emotionally weak/does he think I'm stupid- I couldn't come up with these things on my own?/He's missing the WHOLE POINT! DOESN'T KNOW ME AT ALL etc etc) & the same goes for how I'll phrase certain things or question certain actions on his part - my wording can at times be perceived as a moral judgement on him- & believe it or not, xNTJ's can be quite sensitive to how their close friends morally judge them. Baby Fi.

Another TeFi/FeTi issue within a friendship can revolve around discussing a problem- often for us it can be about a separate interpersonal issue one of us is experiencing- and the INTJ telling the INFJ how to deal with it most efficiently/effectively, & vice versa. Often, you can be on the same page, ultimately shooting for the same result, but TeFi/FeTi pathways will differ, outwardly, & it's quite easy to lose sight of that, & jump to the conclusion that the other person is making a big mistake, perhaps. Little blind spots, to try to be aware of. Stumbling into this territory can lead back to the aforementioned pitfalls of misinterpreted judgements, etc. Or worse, feeling like the other is trying to control you, which is likely not the case, providing the person you're friends with is an emotionally healthy individual.

Ironically, that very same TeFi/FeTi contrast that can lead to misunderstandings is also what ties the friendship together. You offer the other insight in weaker areas, if you learn how to calibrate your emotional lenses, properly.

Things lost in translation. Misunderstandings happen, but it's all well and good, providing both individuals can communicate, & work that out, in the end. I mean, that applies to any type, doesn't it?
As I said, any NTJ I've had in my life- (I say NTJ because I dated an ENTJ, and we had similar issues communicating as I've had w/INTJ friends) has been incredibly valuable to me, & helped me grow as a person, overall. And I can only hope I've impacted their lives, similarly.