[Fi] rosetta 3: Fi emo pain-

[sculpting]

So here are some examples of Fi emo dumping pain and how it is perceived by Fe users. Again please add your specific examples. Also add how it looks and what you actually intend to be projecting (Fi) verses what this feels like on the receiving end (Fe) when you guys see this crap. I may do this now and then....sorry.

In one of my meetings with her we were talking about a particularly difficult grant we were working on and she says, "I just can't do it anymore, my soul is broken." I laughed, thinking she was being sarcastic. Then her eyes widened at me and I was oh, she's serious. She makes these emotionally manipulative volleys about her inner states all the time. I ignore it mostly.

As far as Fi, I get the burdened feeling quite a bit - like I have to be responsible for your feelings or something. Like it's my fault. Or even worse, that you are the only person in the whole world who could ever feel so much pain. I hear this so much form ENFPs "it hurts so much, you have no idea..." I've learned to overlook it, but damn, it used to irritate me.

When I was younger, I also didn't realize that not everyone experienced this the same way, meaning that you didn't sever emotional connections, instead you used them to 'communicate' your pain so they'd understand and back off or even better, comfort you. It also doesn't occur to you that others cannot perceive your emotions before you go intense on them, as..well we tend to pick up on emotions all the time. Surely others do the same, is what you believe at that point, so why would they not understand? Unfortunately, that backfires bigtime as people just don't know what to do with that kind of intensity. I realize it looks childish, and I'm not saying anyone else should be responsible for their pain except for the person themselves, but it's comparable to going supernova and not being able to control your body anymore. You learn though, with age

IME, one of Fi's greatest sins is that it tends to monopolize suffering; Fe's is that it can inflict it.

If left with our pain we can try to do as amar suggests-isolation-we can sort of morph into the worst INFJ ever but I dont think this is healthy. The Fi circles back upon itself and can amplify. Instead I dump that shit out-like puking after way too much to drink. You feel so much better afterwards once it is out of your brain.

Why? I think Fi really is a mirror. I-incorrectly-assume others have the same mirror. I project my pain-you dont respond-I project more pain-you still dont respond-I then vocalize my pain-you still dont respond-I explode emotionally. I have to keep turning up the volume because you are not "hearing" what I am projecting.
.

Potential thought process: My girlfriend only thinks she understands how I feel, but she doesn't. This pain is crippling and she should know that I can't be expected to do <blank>, while I feel this way. What happened was so wrong, I can't believe she doesn't agree. There's no point in explaining because she'll never understand.
A cold shoulder or passive-aggressive snark may occur during subsequent conversations and the relationship flounders into unproductive territory.

I assume you only wanted the negative Fi example? Or did you need a side-by-side comparison for the two?

 

[BlueScreen]

I'm liking these threads.

I won't comment for now except to say I derive amusement from watching

 

[Tallulah]

Wow, this is really shedding some light on some problems I regularly have with my ENFP friend. Amargith's quote about being able to sense emotions and assuming everyone else does, etc., that makes sense. Many friendships have ended badly when my Fe didn't understand their Fi, and I felt like they just came out of nowhere with a big emo dump of demands, and I just couldn't take it anymore. I'm sure I was frustrating them, too, but I just didn't know how to bridge the gap...and honestly, after it went on long enough, I didn't know if I wanted to.

I'm learning a lot from this Fi/Fe discussion.

 

[cascadeco]

Wow, this is really shedding some light on some problems I regularly have with my ENFP friend. Amargith's quote about being able to sense emotions and assuming everyone else does, etc., that makes sense. Many friendships have ended badly when my Fe didn't understand their Fi, and I felt like they just came out of nowhere with a big emo dump of demands, and I just couldn't take it anymore. I'm sure I was frustrating them, too, but I just didn't know how to bridge the gap...and honestly, after it went on long enough, I didn't know if I wanted to.

I'm learning a lot from this Fi/Fe discussion.

I had a friendship with an ENTJ end because of something similar. Her Fi was probably as developed as many who would utilize Fi more often (and before anyone says anything, yes, she was definitely a T -- she just had a pretty tough life, all things considered, so I think her Fi was highly developed as a result).

I valued her friendship, we were close for a few yrs, and while I knew her she had some rough patches. I sympathized, I listened, I wanted to try to help her in some way, but she really just needed to do that emo-dump/purge, quite a lot. It grew tiresome; I kept hearing the same things over and over again, and on my end I didn't understand why she kept rehashing the same things, without seeming to move forward or work through any of it. And, although I knew it was therapeutic for her to talk it out, I also grew weary of being an earpiece. She really didn't want any feedback other than empathy. Now, I can do that for a time -- in this case, it was for a good couple of years. But after those couple of years, I could no longer 'just listen' - as my natural desire is to solve for things, bring about closure (I guess maybe in a pseudo-T way, but with F/emotional matters). I always thought she'd 'solve' for all of these problems she was having...when I realized it was just an aspect of who she was -- this constant need to vent, without desiring any feedback or advice -- I began to pull away.

When I started tentatively offering more than pure listening and head-nodding - i.e. trying to show her different perspectives, or different ways she could look at the situation - She didn't want to hear it, she was just venting, didn't I get that?

Well, yes...by that point I got it...and I was tired of being on the receiving end of it, just as she was growing tired of me. So..it was rather mutual, which I guess is a good thing.

 

[Tallulah]

Oh, man. I can so relate. I had one friend who seemed to feed on that venting/sympathy loop, and she didn't realize at all how draining it was for her friends to have to hear the same woes over and over. And when she emo-dumped, she reaaaaally emo-dumped. I felt bad for her on one hand, since she clearly had a lot inside her that needed getting OUT, but after months and months of being the dumping ground, I began to feel a bit used and unnecessary. This person has a history of losing friends for the same reason. I hung in there longer than most. But her need to vent, at this point in her life, outweighs her need to keep friends.

 

[Amargith]

Trust me, even other Fi's get annoyed with people like that. We understand the pain, but if you cannot progress or aren't willing to do something about it, learn to shut up. Unfortunately, that's really hard, especially for those Fi-users that are extraverts and it's something that needs to be learned with age..at least ime.

It does help them to be able to tell it to people and before I learned to shut up, I learned to spread it out over people, so that I didn't always tell the same story to the same person. That somewhat helps. Also, the best way to help someone like that is mirror questions to them, so they are forced to answer and look at the issue from a bit of a distance. At some point though, it is ok to say..I realize this is bothering you, but I cannot help you with this, only you can, and you know it.

just my two cents on how to handle a Fi-user gone emo...

 

[OrangeAppled]

I have an ESFP friend who likes to dump on me. It can be exhausting. It can seem dramatic and self-absorped. It can feel like a manipulation for sympathy...

On the other hand, I understand the need to vent. At INFPgc, many INFP posters will have the answer to their own problem by the end of their OP, or a few posts in. They can work out the answer through venting. I think that is magnified with extroverts, as they really need to work it out externally.

In venting emotion, it's like a hazy sky clearing so that the rational, reasoning side of Fi can shine through. Also, if you use Ne, than you often have a lot of options to consider, and it helps to have people check some off for you by getting their input.

Also, I find Fi is a bit obsessed with authenticity. Fi people don't like to fake emotion to be polite. Fi people will tell you the real reason they are or aren't doing something, even if it's not nice. Fi wants to be understood and recognized as legitimate, even if you don't agree with Fi's stance. I suppose not everyone can put themselves in other's shoes, but Fi users don't always get that, so we get frustrated when people cannot do that for us.

When Fi dumps, it is also a communication method. If you don't listen or if you disregard it as being emotionally dramatic, then don't be surprised by the person's future actions. They have given you a BIG heads-up in telling you how they were feeling. Often times, in venting, Fi's values are being intimated, and acknowledging them can go a long way in understanding that individual and dealing smoothly with them.

 

[Amargith]

 

[alcea rosea]

 

[Dwigie]

I have an ESFP friend who likes to dump on me. It can be exhausting. It can seem dramatic and self-absorped. It can feel like a manipulation for sympathy...

On the other hand, I understand the need to vent. At INFPgc, many INFP posters will have the answer to their own problem by the end of their OP, or a few posts in. They can work out the answer through venting. I think that is magnified with extroverts, as they really need to work it out externally.

In venting emotion, it's like a hazy sky clearing so that the rational, reasoning side of Fi can shine through. Also, if you use Ne, than you often have a lot of options to consider, and it helps to have people check some off for you by getting their input.

Also, I find Fi is a bit obsessed with authenticity. Fi people don't like to fake emotion to be polite. Fi people will tell you the real reason they are or aren't doing something, even if it's not nice. Fi wants to be understood and recognized as legitimate, even if you don't agree with Fi's stance. I suppose not everyone can put themselves in other's shoes, but Fi users don't always get that, so we get frustrated when people cannot do that for us.

When Fi dumps, it is also a communication method. If you don't listen or if you disregard it as being emotionally dramatic, then don't be surprised by the person's future actions. They have given you a BIG heads-up in telling you how they were feeling. Often times, in venting, Fi's values are being intimated, and acknowledging them can go a long way in understanding that individual and dealing smoothly with them.

+ 1

I completely relate. I'd rather be rude than fake a smile.

 

[BerberElla]

I have an ESFP friend who likes to dump on me. It can be exhausting. It can seem dramatic and self-absorped. It can feel like a manipulation for sympathy...

Me too, but I don't see the negative side to it like the part in bold, my esfp friend needs to vent, may not progress past a point for a very long time, but it's such a minimal dump since as an esfp she is naturally sunny and able to bounce back faster then other types that emo dump.

On the other hand, I understand the need to vent. At INFPgc, many INFP posters will have the answer to their own problem by the end of their OP, or a few posts in. They can work out the answer through venting. I think that is magnified with extroverts, as they really need to work it out externally.

In venting emotion, it's like a hazy sky clearing so that the rational, reasoning side of Fi can shine through. Also, if you use Ne, than you often have a lot of options to consider, and it helps to have people check some off for you by getting their input.

Also, I find Fi is a bit obsessed with authenticity. Fi people don't like to fake emotion to be polite. Fi people will tell you the real reason they are or aren't doing something, even if it's not nice. Fi wants to be understood and recognized as legitimate, even if you don't agree with Fi's stance. I suppose not everyone can put themselves in other's shoes, but Fi users don't always get that, so we get frustrated when people cannot do that for us.

When Fi dumps, it is also a communication method. If you don't listen or if you disregard it as being emotionally dramatic, then don't be surprised by the person's future actions. They have given you a BIG heads-up in telling you how they were feeling. Often times, in venting, Fi's values are being intimated, and acknowledging them can go a long way in understanding that individual and dealing smoothly with them.

Yes, that's exactly right, as I am venting and purging myself of these emotions I am beginning to form an answer and work out a way forward. By the time I am done venting those emotions I am back in a place of peace and have my answer all sorted.

I don't need an action plan, I know the action plan, I know how to make things better, I just need to purge myself of my emotions.

I don't do it as much anymore. I don't tell my friends how bad I'm feeling, I shut myself away these days because I don't want friends getting tired of it, like many of you have said that you do.

I know most people don't understand it, and I actually don't feel like I have the kind of friends who would understand that at the moment and be able to handle it.

 

[proteanmix]

I think that when Fi does this and it seems to come out of nowhere for the Fe user (or maybe another Fi user I'm not sure) it can seem like "where did that come from?" I can be asking all along, "what's going on?" and truly be asking to know in greater depth. Maybe in the future if the Fi user does this after being asked, they can explicitly say to the Fe user something to the effect of "I hear you what you're asking but I have a little more digesting to do. Can I get back to you about it later?" That way the Fe isn't unsettled and wondering what's going on, why is there no communication and the Fi doesn't feel like they're trapped in a corner.

But I do have a question and please don't take this as an accusation: this method seems very indirect and evasive to me. When people say they want clear communication, how does this particular behavior contribute to that? Sometimes it feels like a sudden douse of water and you're just surprised about it. I can't say I haven't done such a thing myself and I'm not Fi, but I do it when I don't feel like the channels of communication have been opened up for me to say it or what I will say won't be well-received and I don't feel like dealing with the person's reaction.

 

[Amargith]

Basically, what you're getting dumped on you, is the 'draft' of what we're working on in our head. Since you asked to see it, some of us assume you care and want to know, others only cave after being repeatedly told to plz tell you what is wrong. In my case, I used to do this, because maybe the insights of another person can help me out and..well, you indicated you wanted to help. You're seeing the unfinished project. There's a reason we keep this stuff inside usually and only communicate it *clearly* when we're done in our head

 

[BerberElla]

Basically, what you're getting dumped on you, is the 'draft' of what we're working on in our head. Since you asked to see it, some of us assume you care and want to know, others only cave after being repeatedly told to plz tell you what is wrong. In my case, I used to do this, because maybe the insights of another person can help me out and..well, you indicated you wanted to help. You're seeing the unfinished project. There's a reason we keep this stuff inside usually and only communicate it *clearly* when we're done in our head

+ lottery jackpot

I'm happy to keep my emo burst inside, eventually I'll deal with it alone, but if you keep pressing me and making me think you actually want to hear about it, then yes it's going to come out, because in reality I ache for understanding and connection.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Fi is interesting to me from the standpoint that my GF has it as her inferior function, and it tends to manifest itself in her personality as a response to being judged unfairly or when she feels obligated to something, especially in regards to her family.

She can be extremely sensitive to judgments about her independence and certain things she works hard for. She will rarely subject me to the "Fi dump" [a little more often than I subject her to my Fe insecurity] however when it happens I am lost feeling really helpless in diffusing the situation. Also it makes her feel worse when I trivialize her concerns and tell her she's looking too far into things [which she IS].

So keep it going, this is interesting stuff to read.

 

[proteanmix]

Basically, what you're getting dumped on you, is the 'draft' of what we're working on in our head. Since you asked to see it, some of us assume you care and want to know, others only cave after being repeatedly told to plz tell you what is wrong. In my case, I used to do this, because maybe the insights of another person can help me out and..well, you indicated you wanted to help. You're seeing the unfinished project. There's a reason we keep this stuff inside usually and only communicate it *clearly* when we're done in our head

OK, so is this an issue of timing?

Let's say I see a dump coming from a Fi user (I can see it coming sometimes...) and my Fe jumps in and say why don't we go out this weekend? That's me saying, I'm feeling you, I see the tension, let's talk. Is the draft a more "spontaneous" thing? Like if I try to set aside time to talk about it and the Fi user doesn't feel like it at that time what then? Fe user says hey I'm trying and the Fi feels forced to dump on cue? Cause Fe is an extroverted judging function, movement based, and closure oriented, so I do have the urge to move things along...

 

[Amargith]

Jock, feel free to tell me to shut up but you could try just acknowledging her feelings are valid(which they are, even if the situation is trivial) first and listening till she's done ranting. After that, you can try and engage her T to see that the situation maybe isn't as bad as she first thought

 

[Amargith]

OK, so is this an issue of timing?

Let's say I see a dump coming from a Fi user (I can see it coming sometimes...) and my Fe jumps in and say why don't we go out this weekend? That's me saying, I'm feeling you, I see the tension, let's talk. Is the draft a more "spontaneous" thing? Like if I try to set aside time to talk about it and the Fi user doesn't feel like it at that time what then? Fe user says hey I'm trying and the Fi feels forced to dump on cue? Cause Fe is an extroverted judging function, movement based, and closure oriented, so I do have the urge to move things along...

The thing is that we don't work on your clock, no
We're still sorting things out, and unfortunately having a deadline to do it in...doesn't help. It just completely deadlocks Fi. You can help it along by allowing for the dump and being a sounding board. That helps massively...unless the person rather not share with you, then you're likely to get a blow-out instead, so don't push too hard. If you're unwilling to do so, just let us be for a while, most issues we can work out ourselves. Your suggestion for the weekend would be very much appreciated, but if you do 'talk' to us about this during the weekend, you're likely to still get an unprocessed version, depending on how long it takes to get this stuff sorted. So you'll still be dumped on

 

[JocktheMotie]

Let's say I see a dump coming from a Fi user (I can see it coming sometimes...) and my Fe jumps in and say why don't we go out this weekend? That's me saying, I'm feeling you, I see the tension, let's talk. Is the draft a more "spontaneous" thing? Like if I try to set aside time to talk about it and the Fi user doesn't feel like it at that time what then? Fe user says hey I'm trying and the Fi feels forced to dump on cue? Cause Fe is an extroverted judging function, movement based, and closure oriented, so I do have the urge to move things along...

This is interesting too, I wonder if I should take a more Fe-oriented *shudders* approach to Fi issues instead of Ti-oriented ones. Do you find that this generally works?

Jock, feel free to tell me to shut up but you could try just acknowledging her feelings are valid(which they are, even if the situation is trivial) first and listening till she's done ranting. After that, you can try and engage her T to see that the situation maybe isn't as bad as she first thought

But I think they're not valid

I guess I can do that but when the Fi-dump is aimed in MY direction I don't see why I should have to accept blame and placate until the Fi fire is put out, and THEN I have to work through it.

 

[Amargith]

This is interesting too, I wonder if I should take a more Fe-oriented *shudders* approach to Fi issues instead of Ti-oriented ones. Do you find that this generally works?



But I think they're not valid

I guess I can do that but when the Fi-dump is aimed in MY direction I don't see why I should have to accept blame and placate until the Fi fire is put out, and THEN I have to work through it.

Normally, if you're not the cause of Fi going mental, she should just be venting. So you won't take any fire. Just..resist the urge to be amused at it, or hide it really well (I know you ), or you will suffer greatly

And her feelings are valid. They have a cause, a reason and are a part of who she is. It may not be a logical reason, but that doesn't invalidate the feelings. Make it clear that it's ok for her to feel this way Does that mean that the feelings are useful and should be acted on? Hell no, but that's something you can discuss after she's cooled down