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[MBTI General] INFJ Compatibility - Why the INFJ/ENTP dynamic is hands down the best.

whatusername

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Aug 3, 2009
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270
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INFJ
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4
The only relationship I had with an ENTP was platonic. It was at a writers' event, everyone was completely drunk, except for me, because mainly I was pretending to be drunk so I could observe everyone who's drunk (it's funny to be the only sober one.)

Anyway, this guy just sat beside me, smiled real wide and said "It's fun to be pretend-drunk, isn't it?" We've been friends ever since, he critiques my poems, I critique his prose. It all works out. :D He's very very witty, and he seems to like the fact that no one gets his jokes except for me. (ie when no one gets it he just looks at me and says to everyone, "see, he gets it."
 

Vasilisa

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Feb 2, 2010
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so/sx
this is so deeply personal it makes me ill

I lived out a grand love story with an ENTP. I cant add any analysis of the function examination, because I’m new to all that and I can’t say it is hands down best pairing because that seems impossible to know. But if you care to hear some of my experience I will share it, because evidently its more than just a special experience for me, its an example of a special pairing (if not special, then topical). You might think the following is just NF romanticism, and maybe it is, but he expressed all this to me, I didn’t invent.

The relationship between my ENTP and this INFJ was very powerful and very consuming and very illuminating.
I fell for him right away. I never considered it was because we had complimentary personality types. I wish I had all this important information about INFJ +ENTP relationships then.

We were young, so some of those ENTP maturity issues manifested. And naturally I took things to personally too often and was probably too clingy. But we both felt deeply understood and loved and connected. It actually wasn’t hard for him to bring me out of my shell. But he did run a lot. I know for a fact he was freaked out by his feelings. Keep in mind he had trust issues from trauma/rejection. And when he pulled his stoic act it killed, absolutely killed me. Like truly surprised that I'm the one still living now. But as violaine put it, we fell into trust. He treasured me and spoiled me. I spent hours just enjoying his presence while he worked hard mastering whatever it was he was into at that particular time and I protected him from the world. It was never that dependent feeling NFs grow to resent. Physically it was glorious, and I could speak to that more in the other forum I suppose, but I think that physical intimacy for my ENTP was maybe when he was most (trying to figure out how to phrase this so that it is accurate and not ridiculed) able to feel and express pure love and emotion. He must have stank of sex appeal, too because he had so many people interested in him; girls and boys both. He was definitely the vagabond, searching, searching for new experiences.

I miss my ENTP. The world lost someone very special.
 

SUPER

Permabanned
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
202
MBTI Type
ENTP
and I protected him from the world

-Vasilisa

Ive seen someone else say something very similar about an ENTP they dated (think it was pinkpirahna).

Can either one of you elaborate on this? How did you 'protect' him from the world. Why did you think he needed to be protected. Just wondering.
 

sculpting

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Jan 28, 2009
Messages
4,148
Hello....

Hope everything is happy here on this very long thread...

Umm, can you guys point to how the Ni-Ne interaction feels in the case when TiFe/FeTi judging functions are matched? How would this differ from an ENTP with an ISFJ or an ESTP with an INFJ-both of which work out pretty good as well, as I have heard.

Thanks!
 

the state i am in

Active member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,475
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infj
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5w4
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sx/sp
Hello....

Hope everything is happy here on this very long thread...

Umm, can you guys point to how the Ni-Ne interaction feels in the case when TiFe/FeTi judging functions are matched? How would this differ from an ENTP with an ISFJ or an ESTP with an INFJ-both of which work out pretty good as well, as I have heard.

Thanks!

the type of inspiration is as close as i can gets. the rationale is made up of the same parts so information is already in the right form. the different perspective of Ti-Fe (for me) is so refreshing, it helps stimulate my Ti to catch up. i learn methods for problem-solving, and just always want to compare notes with entps bc i learn how to be a better version of myself. while still maintaining myself and my own unique advantages as infj (vs entp). i think we both immediately feel that way, based on my experiences with 5 or 6 entps. i will say that only 4 or so really hit the mark, their intuition was focused on similar things and a kind of grandiose vision for the universe. it's also really easy for me to be emotionally/mentally honest and not have to check any of my thoughts at the door, i can say pretty much everything, the best included with the worst. there's just like a different set of premises that you both immediately accept, about life, love, the universe, everything. i feel the interaction helps me clarify what i see beyond those tricky and misleading concepts.

Ti is so different than Fi. when Fi hits you the right way, tho, when the person has values that are similar to the values you have, Fi is great too. Fi feels more secure, trusting, absolute. it feels slower to change. i don't know if this is right but it seems like it has a different relationship to belief.
 

cascadeco

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9w1
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...

Umm, can you guys point to how the Ni-Ne interaction feels in the case when TiFe/FeTi judging functions are matched? How would this differ from an ENTP with an ISFJ or an ESTP with an INFJ-both of which work out pretty good as well, as I have heard.

Thanks!

For myself, I can't really fathom being in a longterm, really close, intimate relationship with an ESTP. I certainly know it's possible (there are posters on here who are in that relationship or know of them), but it seems the way of approaching the world would be so different - different priorities, different visions/goals - that could easily lead to unfulfillment or misunderstandings too much of the time, probably for both parties.

One of my best friends, an INFJ, was married to an ESTP for 5 yrs and they recently divorced; communication was hugely problematic for them, and her deeper intellectual needs/self really never surfaced with him because he just didn't communicate in that way or see the world that way, and the things he cared about (which translated into what he valued spending his time doing, or spending money on) were things she didn't care about at all. She said they initially got together and it was great on an activity-based level -- they did things, they had fun together (which is why they ended up together - their *shared experiences* were rewarding and fun) - but when it came to a deeper bond, on an intellectual/emotional level, it never happened. They couldn't really talk through things.

Obviously it ends up being an individual thing in the end, and individual preferences - so it'll never be cut and dry. Some ENTP's might be quite fulfilled/happy with ISFJ's, just as some INFJ's would be with ESTP's. In general, though, I think in both of these relationships a deeper bond would be difficult to develop - it certainly wouldn't come spontaneously, and I think it would involve quite a lot of work, and perhaps compromise, on both ends. It really depends on whether both care enough or want to try to build that. Also, both might resolve that they'll fulfill those deeper needs in other relationships - friendships - rather than needing all of those needs fulfilled by their partner. In that case, too, the relationship might work. It just depends on what both ultimately want out of it.
 

Vasilisa

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Feb 2, 2010
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so/sx
protection

Ive seen someone else say something very similar about an ENTP they dated (think it was pinkpirahna).

Can either one of you elaborate on this? How did you 'protect' him from the world. Why did you think he needed to be protected. Just wondering.

I will try my sincere best.

This gets tricky because now this is my interpretation of what I think he felt. So consider the type of the source.

I definitely was not trying to protect him in a mother/smother type way. We were young & insane.
I protected him in the most basic way in that I was devoted and never cheated on or dumped him. He had had those experiences before. Plus devastating family rejection, Stuff like that can embitter a person.

He was so fascinating to me and eccentric too. I loved that. And most of the arty types I hung out with appreciated that. But the majority of people in his day to day life did not appreciate, and I know he got some ridicule and labeled weird by people he didn’t even know. It’s like that saying the nail that stands up gets pounded down. His job was really really not the place for an innovative type personality. So I tried to protect his urge to be an individual by just appreciating and letting him do his things and not demand all his attention all the time.

I feel like since he was an ENTP he was always willing to go out there and have adventure and especially try to meet new interesting people. And he was really generous to people and they genuinely liked him, but sometimes I felt they wouldn’t be there when he needed them. I can think of a time he was literally under attack and these people he called his friends did not defend. I did. A lot of it seemed so shallow to me, unfortunately. I can relate to dustmite30 somewhat, in that occasionally he would go off and straight up leave me behind, but afterward, and especially if people disappointed him, he would always return to me and in that way I feel that if he was a vagabond then I was his only home.

Even though he was seeking out new experiences and people connections, I don’t think that many got to see the real him. Like it was stated somewhere in this thread regarding ENTPs, he hated to show vulnerability. I never used any of his vulnerabilities against him, even when he was breaking my heart. I tried to protect him from shutting off that side that would let people in and practice kindness.

So that is some of what was behind the protect statement. Obviously if you take the end into account I did not protect him. Sorry its not concise or spelled out with functional analysis. Take from it what you will.
 
V

violaine

Guest
Hello....

Hope everything is happy here on this very long thread...

Umm, can you guys point to how the Ni-Ne interaction feels in the case when TiFe/FeTi judging functions are matched? How would this differ from an ENTP with an ISFJ or an ESTP with an INFJ-both of which work out pretty good as well, as I have heard.

Thanks!

I can speak to the difference between ESTP and ENTP interactions from the tiny sliver of my own experience. My father is ESTP. I always found him perplexing and fascinating but in a way that was mundane at the same time; in the physical realm and not the mental with which I am automatically fascinated. Extremely cunning and canny though, like many of the ESTPs I know. He has a physical presence that I think ESTPs in general share. They are the kind of people you notice when they walk in a room (because they like it that way). It's interesting to me but not something I want to emulate. He is a risk-taker and his own man but very much a man of the senses so it's more overt. I am a risk-taker and very much my own person but it's something I keep to myself. With ESTPs there is a disconnect when I get going on the theoretical. Theoretical conversations even while interesting to the ESTPs I know are just tolerated after a while. Being that I have a taste for those above anything else, it feels like swimming through mud to me to make that deep soul connection. Our minds touch but it's with some effort, though in this endeavour there is a reward and a way of bonding.

With ENTPs there is never a disconnect, we just go deeper and deeper. It seems like there is more of a shared whimsy and no need for things to materialize in the real world. ESTPs and I can end up boring each other after a while and need a little break.

Vasilisa touched on something when she used the word vagabond... There is a vagabond connection between the INFJ and the ESTP and ENTP. The INFJ feels unconventional but doesn't express it much, the ESTP likes to cut a swathe and the ENTP is quite the little trail-blazer and neither ETP seems to care who knows it. The ESTPs I know kind of can't resist letting people know how they best others, ime. Hence, there is always a dimension of competition. Not a bad thing it's just something I don't particularly gravitate to and makes me more wary around ESTPs than ENTPs.

This is not exhaustive, nor in function-speak (sorry). I get along with people from both types well but the shared liking of living up in one's head is delicious for interaction.
 

visaisahero

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Nov 13, 2009
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ENTP
My INFJ was and still is to me everything Vasilisa was to her ENTP; completely. I can relate so much, it's uncanny.

What happened in the end?
 

eternal recurrence

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Jan 23, 2010
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yaaa but guys (INFJ's) can i throw something out there in our game of generalizations.

Its just an generalizing argument, Im not really interested in the replies: "ya but im not like that ... etc"

The thing with ENTP's is: as great as they are they also have other 'well known' tendencies (e.g. the vagabond-ness mentioned above, prolonged immaturity, emotional distance, saying things we interpret as insulting, wandering eyes, unreliability).

Even in concert with all the other FANTASTIC (and i mean that, that would be my one word to describe ENTPs) traits, is it worth it?

it could be, "it always depends on the individual" but keeping in line with generalities, I would say that these traits are really not conducive to an INFJ's happiness in a relationship.

Don't get so caught up in the discussions and eyes - what about everyday life when a problem occurs?
 

the state i am in

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sx/sp
yaaa but guys (INFJ's) can i throw something out there in our game of generalizations.

Its just an generalizing argument, Im not really interested in the replies: "ya but im not like that ... etc"

The thing with ENTP's is: as great as they are they also have other 'well known' tendencies (e.g. the vagabond-ness mentioned above, prolonged immaturity, emotional distance, saying things we interpret as insulting, wandering eyes, unreliability).

Even in concert with all the other FANTASTIC (and i mean that, that would be my one word to describe ENTPs) traits, is it worth it?

it could be, "it always depends on the individual" but keeping in line with generalities, I would say that these traits are really not conducive to an INFJ's happiness in a relationship.

Don't get so caught up in the discussions and eyes - what about everyday life when a problem occurs?

are infjs prone to any of these things? my entp friend and i have very similar attitudes towards relationships. overall, he is more mature in his views- i frequently ask him questions about how to deal with the tendencies you mentioned in a positive and healthy way.

with entp i imagine the lack of Fi is noticeable, and it's a form that infjs with Fe often rely on to truly trust another person.
 

Wyst

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Jul 6, 2008
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INFJ
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I like ENTPs a lot. Unfortunately, they have very short attention spans and have a lot of friends that easily distract them.

I'm pretty close to a few select people. When one of them turns out to be a socially distracted and friends around with anyone that has a brain, it makes me wonder if I'm unimportant and just one of the throng.
 

Synarch

Once Was
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Oct 14, 2008
Messages
8,445
MBTI Type
ENTP
I like ENTPs a lot. Unfortunately, they have very short attention spans and have a lot of friends that easily distract them.

I'm pretty close to a few select people. When one of them turns out to be a socially distracted and friends around with anyone that has a brain, it makes me wonder if I'm unimportant and just one of the throng.

I hear this a lot about ENTP's. But, I think it is a misunderstanding. I spend 90% of my time alone. I am close to maybe 1-3 people at any one time.

I don't have a short attention span for my friends. I just have different levels of friends. To get into the inner circle takes a special connection. I can't even put my finger on it except in my case they're always more introverted and thoughtful. I don't tend to get on well with other extraverts as everything seems flatter and uninteresting. Extraverts often lack depth. Perhaps because they have a self-effacing orientation to the world.

Why do you assume you're unimportant?
 

Qre:us

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The thing with ENTP's is: as great as they are they also have other 'well known' tendencies (e.g. the vagabond-ness mentioned above, prolonged immaturity, emotional distance, saying things we interpret as insulting, wandering eyes, unreliability).

One thing I have been told is that I'm full of seeming contradictions.

I can be very silly and immature when the mood strikes me, but, I can be more mature than those around me, if I see that the situation is spiralling more and more towards unproductive chaos, and no one is taking up the reigns to attempt to set it right. When others are panicking, I'm more likely to be calm. If everyone is calm, for a prolonged period of time, my boredom will drive me to shake things up.

I may not always answer to every single person's want/need for maturity in a given scenario (impossible to meet everyone's need, so I don't really try), but, I'm not blind to my ways, and when I'm acting out, I know full well what I'm doing, and why. It's pretty easy to stop it, you just have to request that you need "serious" from me - and I wouldn't ever not give it, if a person is genuinely asking that that is what they need at the moment.

As for the "interpreting as insults", I am very vocal about my observations. If I find a quirk in an observation, I'm likely to say it out loud. And, I'm often sarcastic in my delivery. It's to add flavour to the observation. Others may place a value judgement on it, when there was none, as it doesn't automatically mean that that is my position, or that I'm opposed to it. I'm just observing out loud - not necessarily making a judgement on the thing.

My curiosity may make me take interest in other people and things with seeming vigor (wandering eye), but, I'm not unreliable. I'm unpredictable, perhaps, but, I am not unaccountable. I'm actually much more consistent than my F-friends in certain matters where their support or opposition to the thing is due to their own personal value/outlook. I.e., they will support a person for whom they feel affinity towards, and bash another, or, fail to stand up for another, whom they do not like. I'm more likely to equally support or oppose a person given that the situation warrents it, not my personal value attached to that person.

As for the emotional distance, it is not on purpose. I am grateful to those that can reach me, that part of me, and help me navigate it, understand it. Emotional distance would mean I know my emotions and am keeping it from you; that's hardly ever the case, at an emotional level. It's more like, I'm not even aware of it myself - and in those moments, I like when someone walks me through it. Calls me out on it.

with entp i imagine the lack of Fi is noticeable, and it's a form that infjs with Fe often rely on to truly trust another person.

This. With an INTJ, he felt that I was not serious or sincere because I wouldn't ever divulge me, my personal feelings, but, appeared to be very warm on the surface. I have discussed this elsewhere, but, very often, I look at emotional things from a 3rd-person perspective rather than a 1st-person perspective......which makes it seem like I'm distant. And, just like an INFJ trusts Fe more, so do I. If someone nitpicks at me to divulge "what do you want? You feel?" (Fi-angle), I find it quite frustrating and step away more and more.

I like ENTPs a lot. Unfortunately, they have very short attention spans and have a lot of friends that easily distract them.

I'm pretty close to a few select people. When one of them turns out to be a socially distracted and friends around with anyone that has a brain, it makes me wonder if I'm unimportant and just one of the throng.

I'd echo what Synarch said. I really like my alone time, and will give up social interaction to be alone. Not necessarily because I don't want to spend time with them, as I wouldn't commit to another social event in their place. I just want to be alone. Also, I am very protective of my inner circle and only a handful ever reach that. And, they earn my undivided attention and loyalty. Everyone else is situational.

And, I was discussing this with someone else on the forum, but, I think this ENTP attention then lack of attention hits those that I communicate with hard, is very stark in its absence, because when I'm focused on something/someone, I'm intensely focused on them. The other often will feel that, for that moment, they have my intense, undivided attention. And, they do. As such, when I move on to the next, the other feels a sleight because it seemed to them that I was *so* interested in them, and, now, it's complete absence (are they not important anymore? Interesting anymore?). No one can stay intensely focused on one thing forever, and one shouldn't expect that out of an ENTP as well. If the person is someone I respect, I value, I come back, always. If you're important to me, I'll come back.

And, another thing to note is that, this "intense focus" is not something special that I'm giving to that certain person, this is how I approach all things that have held my interest. So, it's a false impression that somehow it was such an unique and profound connection, which is most of the times, not the case. It's just my default mode of absorbing things. I zone in on something, intensely, and, then the next and the next. And, so on. The unique and profound connections, its evidence, are not found in the intensity, but, in the gaps in between. In the hesitant calm (sometimes awkward doubt) with which I subsequently handle the person/thing.
 

nijasumi

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The issue with the difficulty in starting an ENTP/INFJ relationship isn't limited to one thing. First off, neither is used to being understood so there's this never ending clarification and "know what I'm saying", "if that makes sense" issue. Both are in dismay somebody else understands with such ease. However because we take different paths to the same place we'll ask things like "why'd you do that" just to understand, when explained the other person totally gets it but because we're so used to the same thing happening with a different outcome it preys on our frustration or issues of never feeling understood. Secondly the INFJ is hard to get out of their shell and the ENTP is quick to run back to theirs. The INFJ has this feeling initially that they'll never get the space they want because they see the ENTP extroverting and the ENTP swears you're not interested. The INFJ will have this constant push/pull I want it no I don't issue and have to fight to get the flood gate open. The ENTP will have this run while you still can issue and have a tough time keeping the flood gate from shutting. Both speak truly and honestly but have a tendency to try reading between the lines with the other when there's nothing there to be read. We apply our own motivations to the other persons actions which is never correct (different path to the same place) and this all takes some excellent and very open communication. These issues don't last long however so at least that's a plus. We're both a type that never really lets people in and we're both amazing at reading people so we're faced with an issue of holy shit this is going to hurt if it doesn't work so both need to want love more than the fear of having it. We're both so whole alone but together there's an overlapping of abilities that gives the other a peephole (I read that four times and kept thinking there was a missing p) into a whole different world. I can tell you right off the bat, if I (as an ENTP) had internal issues I was hiding I wouldn't even consider pursuing an INFJ until I had my head on right because I know it would be picked up on instantly.

Living proof of this I guess. But I am interested in seeing how things mature.. Being read like an open book is scary when what's in my book may not be correct now and is undergoing personal correction. :)

Especially when the infj is trying to read fast and deep learning all that's wrong in my book. Gotta fasten my pace to keep up!
 

Empurple

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May 15, 2010
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3
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NF
I didn't read all of these but did read the original post (most of it), and I thought interesting the statement that INFJ's are often confused with INFP's because they are the least orderly of the IJs. The reason it's interesting is because originally I came out as an INFJ, but the last several times I took the test I came out as an INFP. I have only taken an abbreviated version of the test (70 questions), and I've taken it several times. But I'm interested to know if my type is more consistent with that of an INFJ than that of an INFP.
 

Kenneth Almighty

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Oct 18, 2009
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184
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ENXP
I'd just like to make the comment that this is pretty perceptive of the dynamics between my girlfriend and I. However, a couple of comments:

-I'm an XNTP, so oftentimes I find myself overthinking certain things in fear of losing her/e (Ti takes hold and I end up analyzing the relationship)
-This usually becomes expressed when she herself holds herself back. We've lost a bit of rapport lately, and it becomes incredibly frustrating because she holds everyone, especially herself, to a high standard, and refuses to acknowledge her faults when everything doesn't go to plan and chooses to what I consider "mope" instead (although I'm sure this downtime is very essential to the INFJ experience). It's frustrating, hence my tone, but I do my best to be understanding about it.

Therefore the only "downside" I can think of to this kind of relationship is that ENTPs are quite an untrustworthy, unreliable bunch when it comes to the day-to-day details, which may cause an INFJ to lose hope/faith in you, and when you lose that trust then there's a grand source of friction as the INFJ turns inwards and refuses to share herself with you. But you move on and you love.

This is all based off my experience, and rereading it makes me seem kind of insensitive. I am, but in the sense that I'm confounded and don't know what to do.
 

Samvega

Buddhist Misanthrope
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
1,073
MBTI Type
ENTP
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7w8
-I'm an XNTP,

I equate being an ENTP sorta like being a virgin, you either are or you aren't. Had you said you were ENTx I wouldn't have said a word however ENTPs depending on the test will often times come out as INTPs. Reason being, if the question is "Do you feel comfortable in a large crowd?" we will answer with a yes, if it's "You require a lot of alone time?" again we answer yes, so we've given both an introverted response and an extroverted response. So if the test tries to gauge that function with too many of either type of question we test falsely as does the INFJ on their J/P function.
 
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