[MBTI General] INFJ Compatibility - Why the INFJ/ENTP dynamic is hands down the best.

[BlackDog]

I don't disagree but would add that in a perfect world there may be less of a difference, in some family dynamics the difference may be less noticeable (e.g. my daughter is a 9 but being raised by a 7w8 is more assertive than you would expect from a 9). My perception and experience has been that for female INFJs societal expectations reenforces and reaffirms their worst qualities where as for males it challenges those same qualities and forces them to adjust and grow.

Could you elaborate more on these 'worst qualities'? If you are talking about a tendency toward disconnect with the real world, then I think you might have something. I know that in the traditional environment I grew up in, a lack of groundedness in males is not really going to work. I haven't ever experienced non-traditional environments, and also I've never known a female INFJ in childhood in either type of environment, so I don't know if this holds true for them.

Female INFJs, please comment?

For whatever reason my experience with INFPs while I would think would be the same proves opposite as the INFP females I know seem to do better and the males seem to "adjust" with often times more passive aggressive behaviors or having a more extroverted sensor persona. Clearly these aren't "rules" but my observations.

Well, that is a hard one. I haven't known any confirmed INFPs in real life, and online I've only heard them on interaction videos. I think that the traditional INFP modus operandi would not be well received in males, but of course that is equally true for INFJs. INFJs are fairly plastic, but perhaps INFPs are less so due to Fi. I am really not sure . . .

With INFJs females I've experienced the same exact issues over, and over, and over with them flat out denying it, as if they reinvent reality. I actually was in the INFJ facebook group and commented on some observations along these lines. Interestingly enough one girl was hugely offended and defended INFJs with vigor swearing an INFJ could never. The funny thing was she didn't know I was using a different facebook name and I was the guy she'd been cheating on her boyfriend with (I didn't know, she was lying to both) years earlier. When I responded to tell her who I was (not what had happened out of respect for her privacy) she actually talked to one of the INFJ admins in the group and had me kicked out.

Deservedly, I want to say. You don't sound very trustworthy after an admission like that. Why were you using different names on FaceBook? She probably thought you were stalking her, or something.

Think about the INFJ poster children, Jesus, Sam Harris, Gandhi, MLK, all men.

Almost all the poster children of every type are men. Men have done most everything in recorded history; only in the last ten or fifteen years has it become likely that history-making events will be driven by a woman. Given that INFJs are supposed to do 'social change' as their big thing, that's a pretty historical thing, and there just aren't that many opportunities for it to happen. So we'll have to wait before we start using something like that as evidence.

Some would argue that even today, women are far less likely to be in the leadership positions that get written up as 'history changing'. We'll have to see society change a bit more; give it another twenty years and we'll see what things look like.

Mind you, this isn't directed towards any single person but my experience with INFJs. If you notice, there are a couple INFJs that are very well regarded on TypeC and post often yet have stayed clear of this thread (or any thread where I'm noting these observations for that matter) completely, want to take a guess at why?

Well, I'm not 100% sure of being an INFJ, and I'm not well regarded on TypoC because I don't necessarily have enough technical knowledge yet for that, but I'll take a shot at your remarks . . .

 

[Eluded_One]

Propaganda anyone?

 

[Ene]

[MENTION=15291]Mane[/MENTION] I should attempt to clarify.

We are an awesome team as far as working together goes. We talk very easily and respect each other. We laugh a lot. We are both passionate about our art. I just meant that, because we naturally flow well together had we met at different points in our lives (say before we both had become involved with other people) that we might have ended up with a very different kind of relationship; still, I'm sort if glad we didn't. I suppose a true and honest friendship is of far more value and has far less potential for boundary/ possessive-type issues. Maybe, that's why ENTP males have successful friendships with INFJ males. Ha! I just have to ensure that he never notices I'm female!

 

[Samvega]

maybe, but ask yourself this:
while you don't experience the same brute wall of willful ignorance, do the more intimate relationships in his life do? his past and current partners? his family?

i think for both genders of the type, there is a connection between the degree of intimacy and the degree of betrayal they seem to experience:
the more personal and intimate your knowledge about them is, the more threatening it is to their sense of self when your view of who they are conflicts with their own.
contrasting that is respect: the more mutual respect you have for each other, the more they can trust you to be their ally on their side, the harder it will be for them to invent and super impose on you a narrative of malicious intent.

my theory is that it isn't who he is which marks most of the difference, its who you are for him: a buddy.
male bonds are often built more on respect and comradery then on intimacy and affection, increasing the fortitude on one hand and decreasing the vulnerability in the other.

The males I know are fairly solid in terms of their friends, family, and partners. I do see some of the same relationship issues with them but they don't deny their existence the way I've experienced with many female INFJs and the males are willing to accept some of the more blunt wording when I'm pointing something out.

You could be onto something in terms of intimacy being a factor as I would classify the INFJ as the least transparent of all types. I say least only because of their level of awareness which they choose to keep to themselves not because I think they're flat out the least willing to share. With my above statement regarding male INFJs to keep things fair I'm comparing mostly my friend relationships which includes a single, bi, INFJ male that I'm very intimate with in terms of the things we share and talk about with each other.

I will say that I've also learned how to better deal with INFJs in terms of not pulling back the curtain on things I know they will refuse to look at. This means with most of them a relationship would be out of the question as I could never be myself but their friendship is still rewarding. And their are a few I can totally be myself with and hopefully they feel I offer them that same safety.

Could you elaborate more on these 'worst qualities'? If you are talking about a tendency toward disconnect with the real world, then I think you might have something. I know that in the traditional environment I grew up in, a lack of groundedness in males is not really going to work. I haven't ever experienced non-traditional environments, and also I've never known a female INFJ in childhood in either type of environment, so I don't know if this holds true for them.

Female INFJs, please comment?

That wasn't what I meant by worst qualities though what you're saying seems accurate. My perception of a types worst quality may be a non-issue for somebody else so I was speaking mostly to the feminine aspects of an INFJ or the heart/mind integration which in my context would be partially mitigated in male INFJs (a type I would call heart driven).

Deservedly, I want to say. You don't sound very trustworthy after an admission like that. Why were you using different names on FaceBook? She probably thought you were stalking her, or something.

I deleted my main account after a breakup with an INFJ, I didn't want to deal with facebook drama and she didn't want to "see what I was doing" so due to the number of mutual friends we had and her use of facebook for business I chose to delete it. This left me with only my account I used to play games, admin some groups and so on, it was the name I use in the MBTI forums and since most of the groups I was in were MBTI related that just made sense. I couldn't tell you what she (the INFJ that responded to the post not the one I'd just broke up with) was thinking, I wasn't even aware of her presence in the group and hadn't spoken to her in years. I just posted a comment in the INFJ group and she commented on it. I'm going to assume by your use of "stalking" and "ENTP" in the same sentence we can add ENTPs to INFJ and INFP in the list of types you don't know. If an ENTP were going to stalk you, you wouldn't know it was happening, if you could get an ENTP interested enough to notice much less stalk you, you're probably married to him.

Almost all the poster children of every type are men. Men have done most everything in recorded history; only in the last ten or fifteen years has it become likely that history-making events will be driven by a woman. Given that INFJs are supposed to do 'social change' as their big thing, that's a pretty historical thing, and there just aren't that many opportunities for it to happen. So we'll have to wait before we start using something like that as evidence.

Some would argue that even today, women are far less likely to be in the leadership positions that get written up as 'history changing'. We'll have to see society change a bit more; give it another twenty years and we'll see what things look like.

I can give you a few types that are dominated by female poster children. Notice the increase in the divorce rate over the same 15 years, interesting correlation. I feel genders have the same intrinsic value but with that said I know that isn't a universal way of thinking. I have also abandoned modern relationship dynamics as I don't see them trending in a positive direction. I'm not trying to open a can of worms with what I'm saying, I love strong women, my girlfriend is an ENFP whom I've watched chew up many out of line men. We however don't engage in a gender neutral dynamic, she is very much so the woman and me the man in our relationship.

 

[1487610420]

Who might they be?

 

[rav3n]

Out of all the feeler types, INFJs who don't reject their Fe and neglect their Ti, wipe the floor with all the rest. Not surprising why ENTPs like them!

 

[Dr Mobius]

You know what I never understand about these threads? what about those poor ENTPs; who in eighteen thousand threads, has had the common humanity to think of the ones that needed it the most, our one fellow and MBTI brother who most needed a friend yet had not a single one, the one sinner among us all who had the highest and clearest right to every MBTI’s daily and nightly thoughts, for the plain and unassailable reason that his was the first and greatest need, he being among sinners the supremest?

 

[Nikellew]

Haha! I loved this! Thank you for sharing. You have a very engaging rhetorical voice & it's nice to find well written information on this topic.

-Single INFJ

 

[iloveyou]

Perception is 90% of reality, nobody is immune to their own perceptions, balances in learning to integrate it with the perceptions of others.

As a side note, that girl stopped talking to me, we were just friends but she started dating a guy that was insecure and catered to him. She didn't say anything about why, just stopped, maybe the fourth time an INFJ woman has done something like this only to later find out why.

Honestly, I've never had an issue with a male INFJ, I just spent 4 hours with one today that I talk to almost daily and he's wonderful. I would clear all ENTPs (male or female) for a relationship with a male INFJ, I would however still enforce a strict keep your distance protocol for any ENTP attempting to get close to a female INFJ, be warned people, be warned! I say leave them for the INXXs and ISTJs!!

Your experiences are your own. And no one can subtract them from you. No one else's opinions, views, beliefs, or experiences will erase your own. I certainly did not make any attempts to even tone down the posts you made that so flagrantly boasted the virtues of the INFJ, so I certainly will not denounce your current negative views of them. As I said, your experiences are your own. I will, however, voice my opinion, as I would advocate a more balanced view. Just as any other type has their pitfalls and shortcomings, so does the INFJ. Similarly, just as any other type has their gifts and talents, so does the INFJ. The angelic descriptions that some create of INFJ's (I read the beginning of another thread on another website similar to this thread) as well as the criticisms or words of caution that others give seem a tad bit overdone to me. We're people too with flaws and strengths just as anyone else. Having said this, however, I do realize that the people, events, circumstances, etc. that we all face-- each and every single one of us-- and come into contact with every day truly do also play wonders in molding us in to who we eventually turn out to be as​ well as in shaping our view of the world and the people around us.

 

[entropie]

Because my mom said so

 

[Tem]

I feel really left out of this one.. *cries*.

Is there a similar thingy for INTJs?

I find I get along really well with Fi-doms, ISFPs or INFPs I think.

 

[á´…eparted]

I feel really left out of this one.. *cries*.

Is there a similar thingy for INTJs?

I find I get along really well with Fi-doms, ISFPs or INFPs I think.

Indeed. It gets ugly at some points through it according to some who have gone through it, but it's quite a popular thread. Though I have not participated myself.

( [MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION], sorry for potentially necroing this he/she asked)

 

[Society]

Your experiences are your own. And no one can subtract them from you. No one else's opinions, views, beliefs, or experiences will erase your own. I certainly did not make any attempts to even tone down the posts you made that so flagrantly boasted the virtues of the INFJ, so I certainly will not denounce your current negative views of them. As I said, your experiences are your own. I will, however, voice my opinion, as I would advocate a more balanced view. Just as any other type has their pitfalls and shortcomings, so does the INFJ. Similarly, just as any other type has their gifts and talents, so does the INFJ. The angelic descriptions that some create of INFJ's (I read the beginning of another thread on another website similar to this thread) as well as the criticisms or words of caution that others give seem a tad bit overdone to me. We're people too with flaws and strengths just as anyone else. Having said this, however, I do realize that the people, events, circumstances, etc. that we all face-- each and every single one of us-- and come into contact with every day truly do also play wonders in molding us in to who we eventually turn out to be as​ well as in shaping our view of the world and the people around us.

as an answer to "what to do", balance is a fine ideal to aspire too, in actions.
but as the answer to "What is", as an assumption, in understanding? not so much.

i can certainly see the perspective which views the benefits of the mental process in question:
be able to view yourself as maintaining the highest ideals and get the benefits of breaking them too? that's just 100% net emotional profit, no tax or shipment delay.

but from the the other perspective, it's someone who fucks you over when you trust them and kicks you for telling them when they fuck you over so that they'll stop fucking you over, someone who advertisement themselves on ideals that do not predict what you'll experience, but rather which ones of your experiences will be viewed as distorted. someone who'll claim they care for others but will push you push them away because actually giving a shit would distract from being able to look at the mirror and tell their reflection how caring it is.

unfortunately, other people aren't candidates to the position from which you experience yourself, they are candidates to the positions from which others experience you.

 

[iloveyou]

as an answer to "what to do", balance is a fine ideal to aspire too, in actions.
but as the answer to "What is", as an assumption, in understanding? not so much.

i can certainly see the perspective which views the benefits of the mental process in question:
be able to view yourself as maintaining the highest ideals and get the benefits of breaking them too? that's just 100% net emotional profit, no tax or shipment delay.

but from the the other perspective, it's someone who fucks you over when you trust them and kicks you for telling them when they fuck you over so that they'll stop fucking you over, someone who advertisement themselves on ideals that do not predict what you'll experience, but rather which ones of your experiences will be viewed as distorted. someone who'll claim they care for others but will push you push them away because actually giving a shit would distract from being able to look at the mirror and tell their reflection how caring it is.

unfortunately, other people aren't candidates to the position from which you experience yourself, they are candidates to the positions from which others experience you.

^ True. But I wasn't trying to present myself "as maintaining the highest ideals" when I spoke of a balanced view. Nor am I seeking "emotional profit". I was only saying that, as we all know, people have flaws. And that, when one experiences these flaws, it can indeed sometimes play a big role in shaping their view of the people around them. It happens to us all. It happens to me.

 

[Thessaly]

I've really gotten into INFJs lately. I think it's because I had a crush on my INFJ therapist. Prior to that I don't know if I had the patience to get to know one. I don't see how they're a good match for ENTP though. ENTPs need to be with other Ps otherwise they're castrated for life.

 

[Samvega]

Arrrrg, this is an exhausting topic and conversation. Really, INFJs or the ones I've met anyway, are incapable of being authentic, I have no interest or energy to attempt fixing them, they seem to be content in their own little worlds and are only willing to "deeply connect" with others on their terms. I like alpha females and that INFJs are not, INFJs make really amazing casual friends but they're too worried about the feelings of others, not hurting people and so on to be seen as trustworthy to me simply because of their inability to be honest at their own discomfort. I have a few INFJs I like very much and have bonded well with, my therapist is an INFJ, one of my closest guy friends is an INFJ, they (INFJs not the two I just mentioned although they do also) have a lot of potential but this is 2-3 of them out of 100 or more that I've met or known.

In terms of dating, as I mentioned, I really love alpha females, my girlfriend is an ENFP and it's the realest, healthiest, most transparent relationship I've even known or seen. She can handle herself, situations, and people better than anybody I've ever met, she's exceedingly confident and attentive. Granted, it's a Dom/sub dynamic which at the core requires a level of transparency and honesty well outside of what most would desire. All the same, I don't think what her and I share would even be conceivable with an INFJ, they just aren't capable of connecting that way, at least in the ways I need.

I started this with saying the INFJ would save the ENTPs soul and the ENTP would save the INFJs spirit and I still stand behind that I just don't think they're meant to spend their lives together, simply to teach each other lessons. I'm older and more mature now, I don't require the same balance I once did as I'm more autonomous and self aware.

INFJs make the perfect martyrs and it seems to be something they love to embrace. They're a good fit for somebody but I think best left dating types less aware of their partner, INFP, INTJ, ISTJ, ESTP, they all seem to be common and good fits for the INFJs. Reality is, I've never met an INFJ that was actually happy in their relationship (though many portend and project that) so I think an INFJ and an ENTP together is just a waste of a perfectly good ENTP somebody else could be fully appreciating.

I dislike superlatives and don't mean to speak in them. This however it my way of putting an end to this chapter in my life. I will always feel a pull to INFJs but for me, it's a desire to fix them and bring out their potential, I've had to learn that isn't a healthy choice for me. I've had to explore and fix myself and in doing so I no longer have any desire to be in the type of relationship that is the ENTP/INFJ. This isn't me saying INFJs are "broken" but that I had to understand why I viewed them that way and address that and in doing so they lost their appeal to me and have very little to offer me as a life partner.

 

[EvVieNiamhNyx]

You are in a mass of confusion because you dont fit the type system ? Let me rephrase that to make it more clear: you are in a mass of confusion because your face does not exactly look like the faces of the group of people you belong to ?!

??? No.. I am confused because I feel as if I fit traits of both. As well as even though I like INJF description more, but I'm not sure how orderly I am.

The only thing with faces is the gag "INFJ" face, staring of into space. Which I do stare of into space, but it's more of spacing off into my head thing rather than being an INFJ thing. I have brought this up in a stereo type forum I think, so maybe you saw that?? (But that was not mentioned the quote.)
But the physical features don't confuse me at all, I would like to know where you got that idea, or were you being super metaphorical? As in the 'face' being the traits of a type? Then yes, that is why I am confused. I know people may not fit somewhere perfectly, but I want to discover as much as I can before I 'settle' if I ever do.

Also your name is neat, I had to look it up. I knew I had seen/heard it before but it would not come to mind. It is a very interesting word/name.

 

[Society]

^ True. But I wasn't trying to present myself "as maintaining the highest ideals" when I spoke of a balanced view. Nor am I seeking "emotional profit". I was only saying that, as we all know, people have flaws. And that, when one experiences these flaws, it can indeed sometimes play a big role in shaping their view of the people around them. It happens to us all. It happens to me.

i wasn't saying that you did, i was explaining the flaw in your interpretation of the perceived imbalance.

the thought structures being critiqued are real, too many people who've known INFJs attest to that, too many people who are INFJs excuse and demonstrate it and it's various elements, the only INFJs who are seemingly able to neither excuse it nor demonstrate it are those seemingly aware of overcoming the tendencies in their past, and even that is rather rare. while it might conflict in the angelic view of the type in itself, it doesn't conflict with the portraits existence - rather the opposite - it's what allows INFJs to read the most angelic of type portraits and think "yes, that's totally me" in the first place.

in that light, what can be understood the balance is not in acknowledging it's existence, it's in ascribing to it a negative, so a more "fair and balanced" view can look at both it's advantages and disadvantages, it's total affect. and as i said, it has them both. the problem here is that there's a clear side - if you are the person doing it, you gain a 100% of the advantages, if you are someone in their life, you gain a 100% of the disadvantages. but the outside perspective doesn't get to be the first, they can only get to be the second.

you'd essentially be asking to balance "these people will fuck you over in X ways" with "but at least they'll enjoy it!"

 

[Samvega]

i wasn't saying that you did, i was explaining the flaw in your interpretation of the perceived imbalance.

the thought structures being critiqued are real, too many people who've known INFJs attest to that, too many people who are INFJs excuse and demonstrate it and it's various elements, the only INFJs who are seemingly able to neither excuse it nor demonstrate it are those seemingly aware of overcoming the tendencies in their past, and even that is rather rare. while it might conflict in the angelic view of the type in itself, it doesn't conflict with the portraits existence - rather the opposite - it's what allows INFJs to read the most angelic of type portraits and think "yes, that's totally me" in the first place.

in that light, what can be understood the balance is not in acknowledging it's existence, it's in ascribing to it a negative, so a more "fair and balanced" view can look at both it's advantages and disadvantages, it's total affect. and as i said, it has them both. the problem here is that there's a clear side - if you are the person doing it, you gain a 100% of the advantages, if you are someone in their life, you gain a 100% of the disadvantages. but the outside perspective doesn't get to be the first, they can only get to be the second.

you'd essentially be asking to balance "these people will fuck you over in X ways" with "but at least they'll enjoy it!"

This is the salient point in why I just gave up on the entire INFJ thing, they cheat but refuse to see it as cheating even if their partner does, they withhold information, sugar coat, and avoid but say it's to "protect" or avoid hurting others. They call it nobel instead of acknowledging they're maintaining their comfort at the expense of others growth or well being. They take away your choice to assess the relationship by being transparent and call it "processing" which often time can take years while their partner is thinking things are fine. If you point any of this out, in even the smallest of ways, they scream and shout, deny, reinvent reality and as they often seem to proudly point out their ability to do, "door slam" you. INFJs that "door slam" are unhealthy and avoidance prone INFJs unable to set boundaries. INFJs that you feel a "push/pull" with are also unhealthy INFJs, they will exclaim otherwise but they're in denial.

My experience is that this is the rule, there are exceptions but sadly, every INFJ thinks they are that exception which means finding the exceptions is your responsibility not theirs. The INFJs that have reached this place, they're amazing, amazing people but not in a relationship context, in a humanity, the world needs more of context.

The INFJs taking offense to my words or swearing I'm wrong or it couldn't be true, well, you are the rule, the exceptions, they know what it took to become who they are and I am thankful you were willing to put that effort in as you offer much healing, love, compassion, and affirmation to a world seriously lacking it.

 

[entropie]

??? No.. I am confused because I feel as if I fit traits of both. As well as even though I like INJF description more, but I'm not sure how orderly I am.

You are a NF you believe in the spirit of body and soul. What do you think how big of chance there are only 16 types to describe all mankind.
I fit all types, I am big at Te and Fe and big at Ti, but the biggest I am at crazy and thats why people call me entp. For people with small brain capacity, 16 types are necessary to explain the world, but the real wolrd is far more complex than that. One day you may be more infp and one you maybe more infj that shows already that type charactericstics are heavily mood dependant. Dont break your head about this question, it just has no clear answer