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[MBTI General] INFJ Compatibility - Why the INFJ/ENTP dynamic is hands down the best.

Samvega

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I haven't had the heart nor the time to update this post and I need to. I would actually love to do so with an INFJ that's been in a relationship with an ENTP and has a contrasting perspective to contribute. With that said, I can add that I will never again date an INFJ, I don't personally find it to be a life affirming dynamic. I do think it serves a purpose and has the potential to accelerate growth on both sides but I wouldn't want it long term.

MBTI really shouldn't be brought into play in terms of partner selection, my having done so for so long was nothing short of an egregious mistake fueled by a desperate desire to feel understood. The reality is that I needed to make changes within and be more true to myself not cling to hope that the right MBTI type would be a magical fix.

I'm not saying ENTP and INFJ can't work, simply that I think it's a highly problematic pairing fraught with misunderstandings, communication issues and a major problems when it comes to the secondary Ti/Fe these two use.

If you're an INFJ with input and would like to put some effort into writing a follow up to this I would love to talk more and see if we can come up with something productive for others trying this dynamic out.
 

the state i am in

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all relationships have trade-offs. none are easy, and none are impossible. if the expectations are primarily based on getting something outside of you that will save you from yourself, there's always a shelf-life to it (because it simply won't always be the object that fulfills this need). if it's being in a situation where you don't need to change as much, and that you can feel like you're already somewhat finished, so to speak, then focusing on someone with more similarity works better. sometimes we need different types of stability and different types of dynamic, change catalysts. saying one is better than the other is only even a meaningful statement in terms of some sense of ends, some sense of overarching purpose (unless it's for you, given your situation, where those things can be fully felt, and after your needs have realistically been assessed). and even then, it's still mostly a guess, because we are dealing with such complex interactions, and because regardless, we can find a way to do the work that will fulfill us in any situation if we really commit to staying connected to ourselves in this kind of spiritual way. kind of like every path is valid and offers some unique opportunities. relationships that are idealized in a way that take us away from this sense of work required for us to grow into our fulfillment, are generally set up to fail.

having a desperate desire to feel understood is a huge motivation, but if that's the desire, a lot of times there's a kind of trap in thinking that that objective must be what we need. it also could mean we need to let go of some of our continued attempts to fully understand ourselves (fellow head type, i truly relate to this), and instead focus on empathizing with ourselves more fully so that we can simply accept ourselves as we are, rather than understand all the reasons why, why, why. sometimes even a failed relationship with someone else can help point us where we need to go. maybe if less understanding was felt to be needed, and more empathy with oneself was given, it might be easier to ask for what you really need, more directly. for me, many times, even just recognizing what i really need changes the importance and the dug-in ness of it. and almost all of the time, my desire to be understood is to REALLY to have someone be able to give me what i need without me having to even know it myself, without me having to recognize that i am not just a mind, but a heart and a body that also are greatly impacting what is true for me in any given moment. to face those other aspects of ourselves is humbling, when we haven't given them the attention they need.

i also don't mean to undermine your experience in your relationship. i don't know anything about it. i just know that when we're stuck in right/wrong mode, we are generally focusing less on seeing what is really true for us, what it is like when we really practice being with ourselves fully, being present with our needs, being in touch with the vulnerabilities that drive our perspectives, the way the various parts of ourselves orient in the ongoing conversations that they have when creating our experience of reality.

finally, fwiw, my own relationship with an entp was very fulfilling. i don't even know if it's fair to say that "it didn't work out." it was worth it, i am very grateful for it, and she and i are still very close and will continue to be, even if we have to try to meet our own needs in other ways than we did when we were committed to a partnership. it is completely fair to say, however, that we have way different needs*, even if we meet some of each other's needs so well. so to me, the balancing of relationship is still an ongoing process that is always challenging to manage and cooperate with intelligently. and so even if we meet some needs so well, that doesn't mean that that alone can necessarily heal (the whole of) us. if appreciated, and if real giving was present, however, hopefully some good healing happens. it has for me.

*many of these are not caused by entpness/infjness but are better described through other lenses. in relationships in general, for instance, we have many lenses to examine conflicts, needs, and desires, such as instinctual subtype, enneagram type, physical chemistry, cultural identifications/projections, values we were raised with that have shaped our paths in significant ways, parental and family relationships, general levels of well-being and self-esteem, romantic relationship histories and expectations, salient social networks, spiritual development, occupational maturity, gender expectations, knowing what it is the fuck you want, etc. attraction, trust, sustainability, need for healing, forgiveness, there's a lot of shit to balance when you're trying to work it out not only with someone else, but with all the pieces of yourself.
 

Samvega

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the state i am in That is a very well written post, excellent insight and I couldn't agree more.

What I will quickly say is this. My thoughts on the INFJ/ENTP dynamic haven't changed due to "a" relationship or "a" person but rather my better getting to know my needs in a partner. My experience with INFJs is that I can't get my needs met with one, this has been reaffirmed many times over again over the past 7 years, always with the same reoccurring issues. In fact if I'm being honest, while I feel a pull to INFJs and I'm sure always will, I have been far more satisfied on almost all levels with both an ISTJ or an INFP and would choose either before dating another INFJ.

I feel there may be less of a Ti/Fe conflict when the INFJ is the male and the ENTP the female so I will add that caveat.

The only other thing I want to add is that ENTPs are probing, inquisitive creatures, we like knowing how things work, we like poking around and testing limits and finding the limits and pushing on them. This serves us well in life, this allows us to have a short learning curve, this allows insights and perspectives that are often unique. I do not however think this bodes well with INFJs, I think it's taxing for them and requires a level of exposure uncomfortable for most. INFJs have a hard time articulating their thoughts and they keep a lot to themselves. I'm sure the constant ENTP curiosity and desire to figure them out is both exciting and scary as shit but ultimately extremely taxing. This could just be me and how I work as an ENTP. I can see how this dynamic seems like it would be amazing and has an addictive quality.
 

the state i am in

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i think the issue for me is more that my trust skills are rather weak. so the testing thing can be challenging. not necessarily just me, but others, situations, what's possible. i think this is especially difficult with 7s. they are so dug in at maintaining their sense of possibilities, just like i can get so dug in at consciously avoiding them.

i also find that while entps are really good at moving forward, they often don't take the time to really get in touch with their needs. this can be a blind spot for both types, but whereas infj get caught up in having too much, too constricting, too overarching sense of purpose, sometimes it's like entps don't have any at all, and will actually vehemently deny that they even need any. the problem with this is that, for us Ti-Fe types, this sense of purpose, a sense of what feels beautiful for us, is a big part of how we embody our judgment, a big way we emotionally commit to something. without that, everything is just a possibility, and it's really difficult to feel anchored in that when you don't get a sense that this other person is actually in contact with their own ability to know what is true for them emotionally, value-wise, what deserves some protection from simply being "tested" and won't be objectified into smaller pieces and ultimately torn apart. sometimes with 7s, just like 5s, the need to KNOW, the need to not deny possibilities and keep too many open is very, very exhausting. not everyone can keep their focus in the same way so that they can keep moving forward at such a fast pace to outrun the negativity that also arises from lack of consideration, lack of commitment, lack of emotional truth. it's one of those ways where the fun and energeticness of a 7, well, the cracks start showing through, and why if they don't grow in their patience and their tolerance to truly be with what they are experiencing as is and stay with it until they have completed it, good or bad, they can be avoidant and intentionally ignore the other person's experience/needs. and just lose all grounding for self-awareness.

the other thing is that, without being able to really use their sense of what is beautiful, and use their sense of how they are emotionally reacting and positioning themselves, orienting to things in the world, they can't really make their way backwards from that to start to inquire their deepest needs and the relationship between the two. if they can't do this, it's really difficult to offer empathy. and sometimes getting the feeling that you shouldn't have your needs, because that's not what seems right to them, is very frustrating.

3w4 are very different. with them, it pretty much comes down to how much they are truly willing to get in touch with their own vulnerability, be patient with themselves, and empathizing with themselves. their ability to find such great focus, combined with the e4 ability to emotionally disconnect and blot out what one is feeling, can be really troublesome without a consistent attempt to practice this. e4 is tough. it's an incredibly narrow path to wire walk.

i also know for me, and this is my personal issue, that i struggle a little bit with T because i can worry that i have less control, that i am less specifically aware of what is going on and more oblivious, than they are. the part of me that privileges truth so much, so intensely, struggles to let go and realize that sometimes i'm clinging to that for my own self-protection, even as it becomes more self-destructive than effective coping. this, to me, is a challenge that i need to work on regardless, because i know that when my mood isn't as stable as i would like, if i allow myself to worry about things i can't control, it can be a substantial setback and be exhausting in its own right.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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There are unique NTP individuals I can connect with on a deep level, but I have also found the type to be the most extremely judgmental, hurtful, self-indulgent, controlling, manipulative, and taking, taking, taking, without empathy. I've been hurt by NTPs and even though I can still love and respect them, I plan to stay far away from almost all of them on a personal level. The Ti-Si loop universalizes personal pain and projects it outward as though it is logical truth. There is zero chance of convincing otherwise, or I should say I have convinced individuals otherwise, but the cost to my personal health and psychological well being is simply not worth it to try again.

Point me in the direction of NFs for my closest connections. Point me to the INFJs for sure because they are the easiest for me to trust since they are the least judgmental and cruel in their assumptions of others (at least the ones I've known so far). ENFPs are a close second, and the people whom I cannot tell if they are INFJ or ENFP are the most awesome of all.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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At least on their forums they also have to be handled with kid gloves about certain things. Most normative button pushing doesn't affect them, but insult intelligence, logic, or their highly subjective realms and lordy, lordy,whatashitstorm.
 

greenfairy

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The only other thing I want to add is that ENTPs are probing, inquisitive creatures, we like knowing how things work, we like poking around and testing limits and finding the limits and pushing on them. This serves us well in life, this allows us to have a short learning curve, this allows insights and perspectives that are often unique. I do not however think this bodes well with INFJs, I think it's taxing for them and requires a level of exposure uncomfortable for most. INFJs have a hard time articulating their thoughts and they keep a lot to themselves. I'm sure the constant ENTP curiosity and desire to figure them out is both exciting and scary as shit but ultimately extremely taxing. This could just be me and how I work as an ENTP. I can see how this dynamic seems like it would be amazing and has an addictive quality.

There are those of us who aren't private in the least. Though I haven't dated an ENTP. I really like the ones I've met irl. We'd probably debate endlessly. But this makes NTP's good philosophy teachers/mentors for me; they help me refine my Ti.

Edit: Except 2 of them (who I've only talked to online) have tried to talk me into sending them naked pictures. What's up with that? If I say no, respect that.
 

Ozones

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ESTP-ISFJ
ENTJ-INFP
ESTJ-ISFP
ESFJ-ISTP
ENFJ-INTP


and so on and so forth. switch the function except for s/n
 

Siúil a Rúin

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As I was thinking through all the people I hoped would know my post did not reflect on my assumptions about them, I realized they were all NTP women. I guess that little boost of corpus callosum plasticity makes all the difference. So, yeah, I'd date a NTP chick. :wubbie:
 
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Riva

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ENTP and INFJ would be ideal if the ENTP is phobic.

That is all for today children.
 

digesthisickness

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As I was thinking through all the people I hoped would know my post did not reflect on my assumptions about them, I realized they were all NTP women. I guess that little boost of corpus callosum plasticity makes all the difference. So, yeah, I'd date a NTP chick. :wubbie:

:wubbie:

I've noticed a definite difference between myself (and other female ENTPs) and ENTP guys.
 

cafe

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I think an ENTP guy might be too spontaneous for me. I know it's supposed to be a great thing, but unless it's a small (inexpensive) gift I really don't like surprises.
 

statuesquechica

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The only other thing I want to add is that ENTPs are probing, inquisitive creatures, we like knowing how things work, we like poking around and testing limits and finding the limits and pushing on them. This serves us well in life, this allows us to have a short learning curve, this allows insights and perspectives that are often unique. I do not however think this bodes well with INFJs, I think it's taxing for them and requires a level of exposure uncomfortable for most. INFJs have a hard time articulating their thoughts and they keep a lot to themselves. I'm sure the constant ENTP curiosity and desire to figure them out is both exciting and scary as shit but ultimately extremely taxing. This could just be me and how I work as an ENTP. I can see how this dynamic seems like it would be amazing and has an addictive quality.

^This is what I loved most about being with an ENTP. I loved having such in-depth conversations about all sorts of topics, including the relationship itself. This is the sort of interaction that fed my own intellectual curiosity, but my soul as well, and was incredibly addictive. I would definitely seek this in my next relationship because it is energizing to me, not taxing, but that is just me. I would also think that my instinctual stacking of sx (with strong so) would explain part of that.

I think where the dynamic fell apart was the e7 propensity of my ENTP ex and his constant avoidance of very serious matters and always looking at possibilities, while I could literally feel critical time passing and his in-action was tearing me apart. And eventually it tore us apart.
 

Samvega

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I really agree with all the [MENTION=6275]the state i am in[/MENTION] says but I think he is a male if I'm not mistaken and I find that I connect to and relate with male INFJs far better than I do with females. Maybe a result of societal gender stereotypes reenforcing the negative qualities of both female INFJs and male ENTPs.

It is also wise to further look at the Enneagram 7 (common for ENTPs) flaws which are avoidance or more specifically anxiety and the desire to escape it via avoidance.

[MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION] I find it curious that you view ENTPs as judgmental as function wise the ENTP and ENFP would be the very least judgmental of all the MBTI types. I have never met one I felt this way about, I could tell any of the ENPs I know pretty much anything with zero fear of judgment. It has been my experience that INFJs that aren't comfortable with themselves will view us that way due to a tendency to add emotions relating to their perception to statements. A made up example:

ENTP - You're skinny. (nothing more than a statement of their perception, neither good nor bad)

INFJ - What are you saying?

ENTP - That you're skinny.


The INFJ will then take the statement and depending on how they perceive themselves assume anything from the ENTP judging how much they eat to them saying they have an eating disorder.

To actually quote a real life INFJ example like I'm talking about from a few days ago I will quote the actual text conversation:


INFJ - I'm an INFJ

Me - I figured you were an INFJ, interesting to find an INFJ with blank (blank used in place of a more personal detail that isn't germane to this context).

INFJ- Why is an INFJ with blank strange? And what's your type?

Me - Now see what you did there, I said "interesting" and you converted it to "strange".

INFJ - You're right I did.

INFJ - I wonder why I converted "interesting" to "strange"... Maybe I read into your observation and subconsciously attached a negative connotation to the word "interesting".


And in my humble opinion there is the crux of the ENTP/INFJ issues though not an entirely inclusive summary.

I'm not doubting that you felt judged fia, simply saying that feeling judged does not a judgement make.
 

yeghor

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I think that's what Ne-doms do to get to know the real self of other people consciously or unconsciously... Throw a judgment at the other (and I think in that case it's coming either from Ti-aux or Fi-aux and Ne-dom propels it outwards) and then gather and internalize their reaction thru Ne-dom and then analyze it thru either Fi or Ti-aux...

So Ti-aux and Fi-aux is giving the ammo\particle and Ne is shooting it at the other... Then Ne records the sparks the particle created in the other and Ti-aux or Fi-aux interprets the sparks to find out the "true" material of the other...

You are interpreting other people's reaction to any stimulus\judgment you send in their way...that's how you test their mettle...
 
Last edited:

PeaceBaby

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It is also wise to further look at the Enneagram 7 (common for ENTPs) flaws which are avoidance or more specifically anxiety and the desire to escape it via avoidance.

Agreed.

To actually quote a real life INFJ example like I'm talking about from a few days ago I will quote the actual text conversation:

INFJ - I'm an INFJ

Me - I figured you were an INFJ, interesting to find an INFJ with blank (blank used in place of a more personal detail that isn't germane to this context).

INFJ- Why is an INFJ with blank strange? And what's your type?

Me - Now see what you did there, I said "interesting" and you converted it to "strange".

INFJ - You're right I did.

INFJ - I wonder why I converted "interesting" to "strange"... Maybe I read into your observation and subconsciously attached a negative connotation to the word "interesting".


And in my humble opinion there is the crux of the ENTP/INFJ issues though not an entirely inclusive summary.

I'm not doubting that you felt judged fia, simply saying that feeling judged does not a judgement make.

It's a good example. @bolded is certainly part of the issue communicating with INFJ's for me too and part of the "walking on eggshells" effect. In a conversation with someone who does hang on each word, I find myself feeling scrutinized and that uncomfortable feeling flusters me as I realize that just the very act of trying to speak can be used as judgement against me. Every word seems analyzed for purpose. Not every type uses words with purpose, to influence another person or even the world. (I can't think that far ahead, myself. It's hard enough just to get something out!) Which is why:

I think that's what Ne-doms do to get to know the real self of other people consciously or unconsciously... Throw a judgment at the other (and I think in that case it's coming either from Ti-aux or Fi-aux and Ne-dom propels it outwards) and then gather and internalize their reaction thru Ne-dom and then analyze it thru either Fi or Ti-aux...

So Ti-aux and Fi-aux is giving the ammo\particle and Ne is shooting it at the other... Then Ne records the sparks the particle created in the other and Ti-aux or Fi-aux interprets the sparks to find out the "true" material of the other...

You are interpreting other people's reaction to any stimulus\judgment you send in their way...that's how you test their mettle...

... this post does not resonate well with my sense-perceptions in the world. Ne-doms aren't the way they are to test people, to "test their mettle". Oh sure, I agree that ENP's can certainly appear to be button-pushers, but this does not originate from a place of judgement, not from the perspective I read and feel the patterns between people. I often think they are perplexed by their Ne being perceived as judgement, because to an Ne-dom, there's not this firm cause-effect connection between their actions and the reactions of others, they only learn over time that "action X can create reaction Y with person A but not person B". They realize that their natural actions create reactions, and this accretes over time to form the Si repository of people-data.

I think it is only as ENP's mature that they realize the more 360° extent of how they affect others, especially from the negative angles, and thus seek to have learned from the past and manage more of their natural impulses. Again, they have Si. They have a memory bank which needs to be filled with data before new expressions of themselves in the world come to be. And it's Si-inferior, so much harder to grasp onto to, much repeating takes place to lay this foundation. ENP's seem to me to carry this sense of wonder in the world, and this I think is from that sense of not feeling heavily yoked to the past.

ENTP's are certainly apt to push a different button set that simply annoys me but really disturbs INFJ's and I watch ENFP's appeal to INTJ's in a similar fashion. So, I know that each is aware of their charms, their sphere of influence. It's not that they don't know they have an affect on others. I'm not saying they are innocent all the time either. I simply think you should divorce it from the intention of doing it to find out "true material" about the other. That's kind of a misinterpretation of their wiring.

eta: it always feel like in the moment influence, short-term affect. No long-term plan. Not much plan at all really.
 
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Society

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this sense of purpose, a sense of what feels beautiful for us, is a big part of how we embody our judgment, a big way we emotionally commit to something. without that, everything is just a possibility, and it's really difficult to feel anchored in that when you don't get a sense that this other person is actually in contact with their own ability to know what is true for them emotionally, value-wise, what deserves some protection from simply being "tested" and won't be objectified into smaller pieces and ultimately torn apart.

protect something which is true from being tested.... and getting confirmed? protecting "the truth" from finding proof or evidence that its actually true? unless you are suffering from the completely invented disease of affirmationphobia, then no - people (and living things in general) don't protect things out of the the confidence there is nothing that could threaten them, they protect that which they feel is threatened. if you feel the need to protect "the truth" from being tested, that's not because you know its true, its because you fear it isn't.

...and that's called lying.

seriously, you are embellishing the act of describing things to be more emotionally appealing then they actually are and maintaining the appearance that that its accurate through forcefully choosing to dodge any potential evidence to the contrary. its lying with a non-liability disclaimer. at best enabling you to potentially argue that it can't be lying if it is done out of ignorance without knowing otherwise, but the moment you choose to forcefully maintain that ignorance and tell reality and everyone in it to fuck itself, then that's choice's consequences are your own damn responsibility and its no longer a workable excuse. you are using the word "the truth" while in practice breaking down and describing the act of lying to yourself to an incredible accuracy.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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[MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION] I find it curious that you view ENTPs as judgmental as function wise the ENTP and ENFP would be the very least judgmental of all the MBTI types. I have never met one I felt this way about, I could tell any of the ENPs I know pretty much anything with zero fear of judgment. It has been my experience that INFJs that aren't comfortable with themselves will view us that way due to a tendency to add emotions relating to their perception to statements. A made up example:

...
I'm not doubting that you felt judged fia, simply saying that feeling judged does not a judgement make.
I don't typically think that any of my experiences represent universal truth, so yeah, that post is subjective and I don't mean to project it. I've had a couple be quite convinced that I'm guilty of all of their ex-girlfriend's sins, so yeah, they were definitely judging me extremely harshly. There was zero grey area going on in those two instances, but I don't think either were that strongly using Ne. It was mostly a Ti-Si kinda situation.
 

1487610420

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yeghor

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...Not every type uses words with purpose, to influence another person or even the world. (I can't think that far ahead, myself. It's hard enough just to get something out!)...

That would render any dialogue meaningless... a dialogue is a transaction ... otherwise it turns into a monologue ... if you don't expect something from someone or the interaction, why bother with it in the first place? What's the driving force then?

.. this post does not resonate well with my sense-perceptions in the world. Ne-doms aren't the way they are to test people, to "test their mettle". Oh sure, I agree that ENP's can certainly appear to be button-pushers, but this does not originate from a place of judgement, not from the perspective I read and feel the patterns between people. I often think they are perplexed by their Ne being perceived as judgement, because to an Ne-dom, there's not this firm cause-effect connection between their actions and the reactions of others, they only learn over time that "action X can create reaction Y with person A but not person B". They realize that their natural actions create reactions, and this accretes over time to form the Si repository of people-data.

They do categorize and classify people based on their Ne deductions...that's judgment...everyone does it...some are more outspoken about it...

I think it is only as ENP's mature that they realize the more 360° extent of how they affect others, especially from the negative angles, and thus seek to have learned from the past and manage more of their natural impulses. Again, they have Si. They have a memory bank which needs to be filled with data before new expressions of themselves in the world come to be. And it's Si-inferior, so much harder to grasp onto to, much repeating takes place to lay this foundation. ENP's seem to me to carry this sense of wonder in the world, and this I think is from that sense of not feeling heavily yoked to the past.

Or an escape from bad memories...Nice point about Si though...My ENTP friend seems to forget who I really am sometimes...as if he doesn't have this long-term static/stable image of me...

ENTP's are certainly apt to push a different button set that simply annoys me but really disturbs INFJ's and I watch ENFP's appeal to INTJ's in a similar fashion. So, I know that each is aware of their charms, their sphere of influence. It's not that they don't know they have an affect on others. I'm not saying they are innocent all the time either. I simply think you should divorce it from the intention of doing it to find out "true material" about the other. That's kind of a misinterpretation of their wiring.

It's what the dominant function do for all of us...make sense of the world...The thing between ENTPs and INFJs maybe due to that they can understand where the other comes from and wants to achieve but detest the means employed...

Check this clip to see how an Ne-dom can throw judgments around

 
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