Ha. Knew you were going to say that. No, I really want to know how INFJs manipulate. Guilt tripping is not it. That's more like ISFJ.
I think I know what you mean. It's usually out of defense. And I think I do that sometimesNFJ manipulation is more psychological in nature, but specifically INFJ, let's see.
When I've seen my INFJ friend purposely manipulate someone I feel like she's doing it in defense and not out of being a manipulator. For example her old boss used to pluck her head and call her a silly girl (she's a grown ass woman), but then cover it up as a funnyHAHA and act like he was just teasing her and that she couldn't take a joke.
I don't know how to really describe she's just really deft at maneuvering situations to her liking by build up. For example since she never asks for something when she does ask if she doesn't get it she'll make the person feel guilty for denying her what she wants. But she'll purposely never ask for this something so she can at a later date ask for what she wants and being denied would make the other person look mean.
I more or less view it as they're very good at creating a very specific system of dealing with people but it's very planned out, done with the end goal in mind they move accordingly. Damn, I'm usually good at coming up with examples and I have some but the way I've seen two INFJs do it, it's just so below the radar, I'd have to explain the situation out for you to see the chain of events and how they moved at important junctures in order for it to make sense. If I take one isolated incident it would be like, what's wrong with that.
INFJ manipulation is like a movie you have to watch several times in order to figure out what the hell happened!
Don't let this thread die. I enjoy a good beating.
You signal this tendency in many rather obvious ways. What is going on?
A lot of people actually DO come on the Internet forums to debate. Particularly TJs.
Yea, I don't have a problem with manipulation per se. I do have a problem with dishonesty.
Psychological manipulation relies on a degree of subtle deception. Deceit being the epitome of dishonesty.
Whenever you choose to be polite you are deceiving in some way. What's the difference? Am I dishonest because I didn't use the words I really wanted to say, even though I got to the same point?
I don't think choosing to be polite counts as manipulation or deceit, on its own.
But if you're being polite in order to mislead or falsely persuade others, that would be dishonest.
INFJ manipulation is crafty and serpentine, but it's OK because I seek mine out when I want to plot and scheme.
There is an element of guilt-tripping involved, I think that's just a general FJ thing I wouldn't even say SFJ vs. NFJ it's just plain ol FJ. All types guilt trip, but the way it goes down may be dependent on type. The manner in which it's done is dependent on SFJ vs. NFJ.
NFJ manipulation is more psychological in nature, but specifically INFJ, let's see.
When I've seen my INFJ friend purposely manipulate someone I feel like she's doing it in defense and not out of being a manipulator. For example her old boss used to pluck her head and call her a silly girl (she's a grown ass woman), but then cover it up as a funnyHAHA and act like he was just teasing her and that she couldn't take a joke.
I don't know how to really describe she's just really deft at maneuvering situations to her liking by build up. For example since she never asks for something when she does ask if she doesn't get it she'll make the person feel guilty for denying her what she wants. But she'll purposely never ask for this something so she can at a later date ask for what she wants and being denied would make the other person look mean.
I more or less view it as they're very good at creating a very specific system of dealing with people but it's very planned out, done with the end goal in mind they move accordingly. Damn, I'm usually good at coming up with examples and I have some but the way I've seen two INFJs do it, it's just so below the radar, I'd have to explain the situation out for you to see the chain of events and how they moved at important junctures in order for it to make sense. If I take one isolated incident it would be like, what's wrong with that.
INFJ manipulation is like a movie you have to watch several times in order to figure out what the hell happened!
So if I am being polite to, let's say, not let children hear me curse their mother out, that's ok? But if I'm being polite to get you to be nicer to me back, that's not ok? All politeness has intent. And if intent is the thing that separates deceit from truth... you see where I'm going with this.
All I'm saying is that lying is "bad" but there are some times when lying may be good, or helpful - as in the sense of being polite and not choosing the words that you actually want to use. In the same way, manipulation is "bad" but there are times when it's harmless. Your child needs vitamins so you promise him dessert tomorrow if he eats his vegetables today . Manipulation, but so terrible?
Sure, as far as manipulation goes, I'd say there is a white-lie equivalent. White-manipulation (but that sounds a bit off).
But the "for their own good" way of thinking might be self-deceptive in some cases, so the person can give themselves an excuse for doing something they don't want to admit is harmful.
I wanted to use the term white-manipulation, but I was trying to be polite and also trying to see if I could manipulate you into saying it by comparing it to a white lie. hahaha... Ok, the word is out there now and is fair game.
Why not just accept manipulation as intrinsically neutral, and start learning enough about it so you can recognize when it's being used for good and when it's being abused?
I think it's an issue of proportions. Manipulation, more often than not, isn't used for something positive, or at least that's the common perception. I'd say it's like 25%/75% used for something good/bad, according to my barometer.
I think that speaks more of human nature than manipulation itself. Manipulation is a technique, and it has no moral value until a human gives it one through intent.
Can we say that people misuse and abuse manipulation? Sure. Also, the actions we use to carry out our manipulations can sometimes be morally questionable, like lying. However, manipulating by being polite seems like a non-issue to me, since being polite is generally an admirable trait anyway.
I think that speaks more of human nature than manipulation itself. Manipulation is a technique, and it has no moral value until a human gives it one through intent.
If a technique is more often than not used for something negative, does it not deserve a negative stigma?
Permission is perhaps what distinguishes manipulation from guidance, yeah?